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Dean Steenburgh Asks, "Was The Prophet Joel Wrong For Including Women?"

 
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Post Dean Steenburgh Asks, "Was The Prophet Joel Wrong For Including Women?" doyle
DA SHEIK feels ordaining women is "unbiblical." Dean Steenburgh feels differently. Down in Da Sheik's post, Dean shared his opinion. Both posts have been brought to the top of the page to enhance debate and understanding on the issue.

Both Da Sheik and Dean Steenburgh make their case with Scripture instead of just personal opinion.

WHAT DEAN SAID:

You can't bring this subject to light w/out debate.

Just for the record I find it highly offensive for anyone to directly or indirectly align the anointing of women in ministry as the same as anointing homosexuals in ministry. Anyone who does this needs a serious break through in an old-fashioned altar, if you can remember what altars are used for.

Da Sheik
Quote:
1Tim. 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.


If a woman cannot teach it's going to invalidate a lot of Sunday School classes. What do we do with Joel's prophecy ...was he wrong to include women?

Joel 2:28-29
28 “And afterward, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions. 29 Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days.

If we are going to follow some of the teachings of 1 Tim. 2 then we have to follow them all rather than pick & choose.

1 Cor. 11:4-5
4 Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head.
5 But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is the same as having her head shaved.


So let's look at 1 Cor. 34 & 39 & we see in vs. 34 that women are not allowed to speak but 5 verses later they are encouraged to prophecy ...how can they be both silent & yet prophecy?

1 Cor. 14:34; 39 Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says.
... 39 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.

Then we have good ole Romans 16 where Sis. Phoebe leads as a deacon in the church ...pretty hard to be a silent leader.

Romans 16:1-2
I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deacon of the church in Cenchreae."

One verse states the role of a woman in the church is passive, submissive. The second states phoebe is a "deacon".

"Welcome her in a way that is proper for someone who has faith in the Lord and is one of God's own people. Help her in any way you can. After all, she has proved to be a respected leader for many others, including me."

1 Timothy 3 implies a deacon is a male (with reference to the fact that he must have one wife).
But here in Romans 16 we have a woman who is serving in a man's role?
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Last edited by doyle on 3/3/19 4:02 pm; edited 2 times in total
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2/8/19 10:45 pm


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Post Da Sheik
When Paul commanded that Timothy lay hands suddenly on no man, but rather gave a list of qualifications ( that must first be proved), I’m sure he was well aware of Joel’s prophecy. Joel’s prophecy has nothing to do with the ordination of female clergy. It is a prophecy about the age of the Spirit, where God would pour out His spirit on “all flesh” (young, old, male, female, Jew, Gentile, etc). Such is the similar passage in Galatians 3:28 which refers to the call of God in salvation (not ministry rank). Acts Enthusiast
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2/9/19 2:57 pm


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Post In the Spirit, God does not consider gender as qualification Dunamis007
For anything. Your misinterpretation is intentional but nonetheless a misinterpretation and a mistake often made by those with an agenda. In Da Sheik's case an agenda that is trying to maintain his misogyny and chauvinistic heresy in order to keep his authority over women. Member
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2/9/19 6:52 pm


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Post Re: In the Spirit, God does not consider gender as qualification Dave Dorsey
Dunamis007 wrote:
For anything. Your misinterpretation is intentional but nonetheless a misinterpretation and a mistake often made by those with an agenda. In Da Sheik's case an agenda that is trying to maintain his misogyny and chauvinistic heresy in order to keep his authority over women.

Oof. So much for always believing the best of each other.
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2/9/19 7:58 pm


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Post Sure God chooses by gender... Aaron Scott
There was no provision made for a QUEEN of Israel.

God could have made Eve first.

God ordained the man the head of the woman.

Jesus could have been the DAUGHTER of God, but was the Son.

God is known as a FATHER, and not as a MOTHER.

"Choose you out seven MEN full of the Holy Ghost...."

This is not misogynism nor chauvinism. In fact, using these terms is often done intentionally to front-load the argument in order to close down the debate without actually having one. For instance, "Only a closeted gay person would hold that there is no distinction...." You get the idea.

And it's ad hominem.

If you have a scripture, put it out there.
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2/11/19 9:25 am


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Post Nature Boy Florida
Doyle,
Thanks for making this separate.

I truly enjoy the scriptures highlighting both sides points.

Let's face it.
Predestined - free will?
Saved by grace alone - but if you are saved you will do these things. SO if you don't do those things- are you really saved?
Women as church pastors?

But there is a tension that exists in all of these things - seemingly incongruous things are said to both be valid.

I personally believe lady ministers / teachers / leaders fits in this category - often said to keep silent - but often portrayed as leaders by male leaders.

Which is it?

Using scripture is the best way.
Get it all on the table.

And then folks at these listening tours can quote Actscelerate to support their side - just like its been done for the last 20 years at these forums.
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2/11/19 11:04 am


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