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doyle

A former COG "Listening Tour" didn't go as planned.

Acts-celerate Owner Posts: 6957 **2/8/19 9:58 pm**

LEADERS "listening" to people who elected them, is certainly a
good thing. Much of the criticism of leadership is often, "They don't listen to
us anymore." So, leadership taking time to listen is a positive.

However, a major "Listening Tour" in the past did not go as planned. It
was about COG Headquarters, and the Executive Committee in particular, expanding their rights to appoint various leaders instead of having the General Assembly elect them.

At the time, the promotional for that was built around the point that the General Overseer (the title then), should have the same privilege as local pastors; to choose his own staff. Sounds fine, but that would mean stripping COG ministers and members of their opportunity to elect leaders to those positions as they had done for years.

Basically, those who already had authority to appoint most COG leaders (hundreds of people) in the COG, wanted the other few percent the General Assembly was allowed to choose.

To promote that, a "Listening Tour" was launched. Again, leaders listening to what people in the field have to say, is a good thing. However, it sometimes turns out that the ones doing most of the the listening, is the people, not the leaders.

It can easily become a speaking tour as leaders promote what they want to happen. Basically, there is nothing wrong for leaders to promote their endeavors. However, people catch on quickly. If it turns out the supposed "Listening Tour," is leaders doing all the talking...

One way to see who is doing most of the listening, is how many pre-planned speakers leaders have lined up to give promotional speeches in favor of what leadership is promoting.

THE COG, by design, is an almost totally top-down, centralized government. Top Executives choose all State Bishops, who in turn have total authority to choose, appoint, or allow to be chosen, all Pastors.

WHICH IS WHY the "Listening Tours" almost never reveal what people in the field are really thinking. Possibly a few brave souls will rise to share their heart. Most will not. Why?

These "Listening Tours" can easily become "Observation Tours." It gives those pushing a particular agenda, excellent opportunities to see who is "with us or against us." Because of the kind of leader Bishop Tim Hill is, I believe the upcoming tours will absolutely be based on good motives.

It presents a great opportunity for local ministers to enjoy good fellowship, and an opportunity to meet leaders up-close.

However, since a COG ministers future in the organization can sometimes depend on going along to get along, they may not share their true feelings
in a public forum with leaders present.

THE FORMER Listening Tour returned to Cleveland jubilant and reported that up to 80 percent of those they met on the tour, approved of what was being proposed. However, when those same people were allowed to cast personally secret ballots at the General Assembly, the measure was crushingly defeated.

That's my opinion. What's yours?

Doyle
writedoyle@gmail.com
404-933-1373
_________________
The largest room in the world is the room for improvement.

Aaron Scott

Doyle--excellent

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6032 **2/9/19 12:03 am**

You really have got to create a "Like" icon so we can click it for certain posts.

sheepdogandy

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 7298 **2/9/19 11:36 am**

Centralized government, ya gotta love it! Laughing

_________________
Charles A. Hutchins
Senior Pastor SPWC
Congregational Church of God

www.spwc.church

diakoneo

Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere Posts: 3382 **2/10/19 8:53 am**

georgiapath

Re: A former COG "Listening Tour" didn't go as planned.

Acts-dicted Posts: 7587 **2/12/19 3:25 pm**

Aaron Scott

Eons ago, there was another "tour"...

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6032 **2/12/19 4:19 pm**

This one was about changes being proposed to the Practical Commitments, which were apparently not all that practical after all (and plenty of ladies certainly weren't committed to it).

They hosted meetings here and there. I heard good arguments from both directions, but--at least where I was (south/central Florida)--those opposed to it seemed absolutely dominant.

These tours, even if they are well-intentioned (and there could be some question of that, since I think it is really an attempt to push the leadership agenda around the General Council), mean absolutely nothing. Leadership ALREADY knows that most of our bishops (or at least most of those who attend the General Council) have been against women in high leadership, etc. THEY KNOW THIS! In fact, it has been demonstrated in General Assembly after General Assembly! So exactly WHAT are they listening for? The only thing that counts is the General Council vote. If every single person in the Church of God was for the measure, but the General Council was NOT, then it does not fly.

But because the General Council keeps coming back with the wrong answer, we are now having a listening tour?

Further, I noted that in the comments made about one of the listening meeting, it told how there was excitement that so many people had, I suppose, positive views of the future of the Church of God. I have to take this as shorthand for "If you are for what leadership is for, you are for the future of the Church of God."

I especially noticed that the young ministers--the ones most likely to vote for the change--were especially noticed.

I cannot help but wonder if we are being more like Rehoboam than we would think--believing that the wisdom of the young, being more to our liking, is better than the experience and wisdom of the ones that keep voting the matter down.

We have tremendous leaders. But on this one, I think they are wrong. They have already ignored the views of the General Council time after time, and now they are in motion to ignore it again.

MI6

Why Do These Subject Continue to be PUSHED on the Church

Friendly Face Posts: 140 **2/17/19 5:09 pm**

Why Do These Subjects Continue to be PUSHED on the Church ?

It would appear that while our Denomination - "Movement" is sinking into the world of carnality, culture and materialism that the leadership is only concerned with "reorganizing the chairs on the deck of the Titanic"...

Who is behind this Agenda of topics that have been continually voted down
or rejected by the General Assembly of the Church of God?
1. Is it a handful of East Tennessee Elites that desire power for life?
2. Is it the wives of weak men who are demanding Social Change within the COG because they are not allowed at the seats of power?
3. Is it the Denominational Lawyer that pushes these agenda items because
the Legal Council is afraid of law suits?
4. OR - Is there a sincere set of reasons that I have failed to understand?

A thought on women in ministry - God's list of 70 Nations in Genesis were named after men; the 12 tribes of Israel we lead by the 12 Sons of Jacob; the 12 hand-picked Apostles of Jesus were all men, the replacement for Judas was a man (Paul); the Leader of the Church in Jerusalem was James, ... and the list goes on... NO women were used in a leadership position by God in the formation of the Nations, of Israel or of the Church - so why are the leaders of the COG pushing this subject?

Title of Bishop - This discussion is fruitless and juvenile... focus on the Harvest of Lost Souls and the Discipleship - the soul in Hell could care less if you are a Bishop, Pope, Rev. Bro. or Overseer.

AND YES Presiding Bishop Hill - THIS IS A WASTE OF TIME AND MONEY -
How Many Times Does This Body Have To Say NO Before NO is NO !

We have sacrificed our Evangelism Efforts for the sake of budget cuts that
have not helped the local church and have crippled the Denomination.

The Millions of Dollars that have poured into the YCE Departments and Programs over the last 25 years would have been better spent on Evangelism and Church Planting.

Roger Woodard

Hey, DOC Posts: 94 **2/18/19 1:30 pm**

As one of the "few" (very few), who actually tried to express his frustration with an all day promotion of the general program & then aprox an hour for responses, limited to two minutes per person, all I can say is, here we go again. Not that real input from the rank & file isn't needed, but it is rarely welcomed. I found that out with firestorm that followed my remarks. I honestly expressed myself with no intent to indict anyone or without any intent to stir controversy. No matter. The fact I spoke & pointed this out became focal point of many discussions. Good luck all of you who attend these meetings, especially, if you plan to speak. Oh by the way, I'm on record as believing the change making every 25 yr. old & up who is ordained ministers Bishops is one of the dumbest thing we've done in the last 50 yrs.