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doyle

Author says he has to "debate Christian serial killers."

doyle · Acts-celerate Owner Posts: 6957 **1/14/19 11:35 am**

https://www.dailywire.com/news/42126/adams-why-i-have-debate-christian-serial-killers-mike-s-adams

Do you agree with his claim that churches have been gutless concerning
abortion? Some statistics seem to indicate over 300,000 babies killed
in U.S. each year. I saw one stat that claims over 60 million have been
killed since Roe vs Wade became law January 22, 1973.
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Nature Boy Florida

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16619 **1/14/19 12:24 pm**

I think a lot of churches don't think there is sin anymore - and even if there is - it doesn't matter thanks to the grace of God - so there is no need to speak out against any of it.
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Aaron Scott

Some thoughts...

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6032 **1/14/19 4:34 pm**

I believe that most Christians would be absolutely up in arms if toddlers were being killed, etc. In fact, it would probably be a lot more than Christians involved.

But by its very nature, abortion typically takes the life of an UNBORN child, a child without a name, a child without a photograph. And that slight disconnect from the more concrete case of toddlers is enough to make unborn children feel abstract.

Not to everyone, of course, but to enough to keep us from storming the Bastille.

We have long couched abortion in a manner that seeks to make the unborn more "real" (even though we know, at least intellectually, that they are real!), but there is, I think, only so far that most of us can go since, as I pointed out, we see them as a bit of an abstraction.

Now, we CLAIM that unborn children are NOT an abstraction--and, indeed, they are as real as you and I--but empirically we tend to classify them as somehow different from a walking, talking, breathing child.

A THOUGHT EXPERIMENT:

There are two women who are the same age, etc. One is one-month pregnant, the other has a 3-year-old child with her. They pregnant woman is drowning on one side of you, while the other woman and her toddler are drowning on the other side of you. You can save either one of the women and their children.

Now, the "right" answer for those who urgently oppose abortion is "All things being equal, it doesn't matter, because in both cases you are saving a mother and a child."

BUT THAT'S NOT HOW IT FEELS, DOES IT?

I imagine most of us, perhaps due only to the fact that we can SEE the one child drowning, would likely try to save the mother and toddler. Those who know that the will mess up the anti-abortion logic will say (although I'm not sure just how much I believe them...or how much they are really just saying it to be consistent), "Oh, that wouldn't be me--I KNOW that the toddler and the fetus are utterly morally equivalent."

The truth is that a walking, talking, SMILING child is going to connect to us far more than the abstract fetus that came into existence last week, and is not much larger than this: . (if it is even that size).

I guess you could say that when it comes to the fetus and toddler (I am using "fetus" only to note that it is an unborn child) we have a predisposition toward the one that is most like us--i.e., breathes, smiles, laughs, sees, hears, etc.

And yet most of us, after (mentally) choosing the toddler, would feel uneasy for some reason. After all, if an fetus is just as much a child, is fully and morally equivalent to a toddler, then how in the world--WHY in the world?--would we choose one of the other?

The abortion train went off the tracks at some point, I think. It was so fixated on winning a somewhat philosophical/ideological argument that it winds up equating a fetus the size of a punctuation mark with a child that is walking and running. It's hard to do, and yet those against abortion are virtually FORCED to do so, since to "admit" otherwise is to pretty much agree with the premise that an unborn child isn't as important/valuable/sacred/etc. as one that is already born.

And while we all understand that a fetus at 9 months is not appreciably different from a newborn infant, those against abortion, not being able to find a moral line in the sand, where fetuses on one side are equivalent to newborns...but those on the other are not...wind up in a terrible moral quandary when invited to accept the following:

"If you will agree to all abortions on any fetus that is under one month old, we (those for abortion) will, in turn, agree to make it unlawful to abort any child over one month old."

Now, it doesn't matter that this might save hundreds of thousands of fetuses, the pro-life side will never accept it. Although they would deny it, it could be argued that they would rather millions of more fetuses be aborted than to accept the relative handful of abortions that take place under the one month mark.

I finally concluded that neither side is really interested in REDUCING abortions. No, they either want ZERO abortions...or to allow abortions without any limits whatsoever. And so we will not do anything that smacks of "compromise" on our side. Let the world burn down, but we're not accepting anything except complete victory.

Now, lest it seem I am just taking the pro-life side to task, please note that the pro-abortion side will not compromise either. They wouldn't dare accept an offer of "You can abort at any time, as long as it is not within the last 3 days of a woman's term." Nope. That would be to step on the slippery slop...for what's the real difference between a Minus 3 and counting pregnancy and a Minus 4 and counting one?

Of course, with very few exceptions, no one need have an abortion. After all, since most abortions are about convenience, birth control would have prevented the whole thing.

In those cases where it could not prevent a pregnancy (e.g., rape, incest, etc.), that's an argument for another day. But the vast majority need never have come to an abortion.

Just some disjointed thoughts.

Cojak

Re: Some thoughts...

01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24275 **1/14/19 6:05 pm**

Eddie Robbins

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16509 **1/16/19 4:19 pm**

And, when you consider eternity and how short the time is here, if you believe each once of those 60 million babies have a soul, every one of them got a free ride to Heaven. How many of the 60 million would have lived and not made it to Heaven? God has this. The GOP talks about being anti-abortion butbits all talk. When they have the president and full control of Congress, they have an opportunity and do nothing. So, praise the Lord for 60 million souls going straight to Heaven.

diakoneo

Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere Posts: 3382 **1/17/19 10:36 pm**

Recently my 19 year old niece became pregnant out of wedlock. We are very close! We found out(she told us) and her parents did not know that we knew. Her mother and father (my wife's sister) said things trying to talk her into an abortion. They were VERY upset that she wanted to have the baby. She basically relayed what was going on as they tried to force her to end this baby's life, while me and my wife were supporting her and doing everything we could to encourage her to not end the baby's...all the while her sister did NOT know that we knew. based on all past experience I would have NEVER thought they would have done this kind of thing. She is due in February and living in a little house we bought to fix up and resale. The grandparents to be are now anticipating the birth of their first grandchild. It is not ideal but it is MUCH better than the alternative! Oh and they still don't know that we knew all that went on.

Nature Boy Florida

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16619 **1/18/19 10:03 am**

Quiet Wyatt

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12792 **1/18/19 11:27 am**

Cojak

01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24275 **1/25/19 1:02 am**

Our God is a just God, a benevolent Father. I have a feeling if God decides the fetus is a child his/her adult soul (if there is such a thing) is in heaven.

Some humans make a lot of decisions for God methinks. One day we may understand the mind of God. Lots of stuff I would like to know, as mama would say, we will know in the morning.
I am looking forward to seeing that saint of God again. Even if the Lord tarries, I don't have a lot of time to wait. Cool

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Eddie Robbins

Eddie Robbins · Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16509 **1/26/19 8:38 am**

Quiet Wyatt

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12792 **1/26/19 10:52 am**

I am about as anti-Calvinian as can be myself, but from what Iâ€™ve been able to find, Piperâ€™s view is a fairly common one amongst them. They say babies who die are most likely elect. It seems they recognize how fundamentally morally objectionable it would be for God to damn babies.