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President Obama had a pen and a phone
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Post President Obama had a pen and a phone Dave Dorsey
DACA was the product of unrestrained executive power. Congress wouldn't do what President Obama wanted, so he just did it anyway, Constitutional authority and separation of powers be damned.

At the time, I warned many a liberal friend that their party would not always be in the White House, and that it was a really bad idea to support that means even though they did support the end.

As the populist authoritarian at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue announces today his backup plan of using executive power to declare a national emergency and build the wall without Congressional appropriation -- a move that will necessarily involve the seizure of private lands, at the point of a gun for those who resist -- I now warn the Trump supporters here of the same.

I support the construction of a physical barrier along the entire southern border. But not at the expense of constitutional governance. If you sit idly by while President Trump continues the tradition of executive shredding of the Constitution, you will one day come to regret it, as many DACA supporters are lamenting the existence of a pen and a phone today. Your party will not always be in power. Presidents acting without the restraint of law will not always be doing what you want.

Principles matter. Even when you support the end result. Especially when you support the end result.

That's all.
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1/4/19 6:05 pm


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Post Re: President Obama had a pen and a phone Resident Skeptic
Dave Dorsey wrote:
DACA was the product of unrestrained executive power. Congress wouldn't do what President Obama wanted, so he just did it anyway, Constitutional authority and separation of powers be damned.

At the time, I warned many a liberal friend that their party would not always be in the White House, and that it was a really bad idea to support that means even though they did support the end.

As the populist authoritarian at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue announces today his backup plan of using executive power to declare a national emergency and build the wall without Congressional appropriation -- a move that will necessarily involve the seizure of private lands, at the point of a gun for those who resist -- I now warn the Trump supporters here of the same.

I support the construction of a physical barrier along the entire southern border. But not at the expense of constitutional governance. If you sit idly by while President Trump continues the tradition of executive shredding of the Constitution, you will one day come to regret it, as many DACA supporters are lamenting the existence of a pen and a phone today. Your party will not always be in power. Presidents acting without the restraint of law will not always be doing what you want.

Principles matter. Even when you support the end result. Especially when you support the end result.

That's all.


In the first place, this IS a true national emergency. Secondly, you are assuming Trump is authoritarian and won't work with people. In the end there might be a handful of outliers who will lose a minimal amount of acreage.
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1/4/19 6:39 pm


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Post Dave Dorsey
There is no one as blind as he who will not see.

If you support this -- that's fine. That's your right. But I hope I never see you posting here about the constitution again, since you apparently believe the rule of law is just a helpful suggestion.

If there is one thing I truly appreciate about President Trump, it is how he serves as a means by which the boundless hypocrisy of both the far left and far right is revealed. At the end of the day, both you and the far left want the same things. Power and results at any cost.
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1/4/19 6:52 pm


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Post Resident Skeptic
Dave Dorsey wrote:
There is no one as blind as he who will not see.

If you support this -- that's fine. That's your right. But I hope I never see you posting here about the constitution again, since you apparently believe the rule of law is just a helpful suggestion.

If there is one thing I truly appreciate about President Trump, it is how he serves as a means by which the boundless hypocrisy of both the far left and far right is revealed. At the end of the day, both you and the far left want the same things. Power and results at any cost.


Again, there is very little, if any, that you can truly cite from Trump's record as being authoritarian. Protecting the country from foreign invasion is the President's job. It seems you really do not take this seriously.
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1/4/19 6:54 pm


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Post Dave Dorsey
As a final plea, imagine the worst policy you believe could ever be implemented, then imagine a future president implementing it without Congressional approval using the precedent that GWB, Obama, and now Trump are establishing and following.

I implore you to step outside of yourself for just a short moment and look objectively at the means you have come to endorse. They are alien to the Constitution and foreign to the intent of the founders.
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1/4/19 6:57 pm


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Post Dave Dorsey
Resident Skeptic wrote:
Again, there is very little, if any, that you can truly cite from Trump's record as being authoritarian. Protecting the country from foreign invasion is the President's job. It seems you really do not take this seriously.

RS, I'm beginning to think you really do not understand the constitution at all.

Please cite to me the clause in the constitution that empowers the president to directly enact policy concerning immigration -- in any context -- much less in a specific way, over the objection and without the appropriation of Congress.

As a hint, you might want to look at Article I, Section 8, where you will find the only clause in the Constitution that mentions immigration policy.

Serious question -- without looking it up -- do you know what Article I does?
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1/4/19 7:01 pm


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Post Resident Skeptic
Dave Dorsey wrote:
Resident Skeptic wrote:
Again, there is very little, if any, that you can truly cite from Trump's record as being authoritarian. Protecting the country from foreign invasion is the President's job. It seems you really do not take this seriously.

RS, I'm beginning to think you really do not understand the constitution at all.

Please cite to me the clause in the constitution that empowers the president to directly enact policy concerning immigration -- in any context -- much less in a specific way, over the objection and without the appropriation of Congress.

As a hint, you might want to look at Article I, Section 8, where you will find the only clause in the Constitution that mentions immigration policy.

Serious question -- without looking it up -- do you know what Article I does?


This has gone beyond an "immigration" problem. This is an invasion. I take it you do believe the Constitution gives the Commander-in-Chief the power to halt invasions.

Whether Congress allocates the funds, or Trump invokes his powers as Commander-in-Chief, a wall is not going to suddenly appear. It will take time, planning and dealing with land owners. You are simply grasping at anti-Trump straws.
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Post Dave Dorsey
If it's an invasion, where in the Constitution would I find an enumeration of war powers?

Do you know which article that's in?
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1/4/19 7:12 pm


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Post Resident Skeptic
Quote:
I support the construction of a physical barrier along the entire southern border


I am beginning to think you don't know much about our southern border. Even Trump knows a border on every single mile is not possible or necessary.

One thing I have considered and wondered is why we simply don't have an agent stationed every mile? They could have night vision, arms and the means to call in more man power at a moment's notice. If a group of "refugees" massed at a certain point, at least two agents would see them coming from miles way and radio in a guard force. Two or three choppers loaded with agents thundering in would be quite a deterrent to "refugees".
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Post Resident Skeptic
Dave Dorsey wrote:
If it's an invasion, where in the Constitution would I find an enumeration of war powers?

Do you know which article that's in?


Repelling invasion does not require a declaration of war.
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Post Dave Dorsey
Oh, one more, could you give me a super brief primer on the authority the president has to declare national emergencies? Does that come from the Constitution, or does it come from somewhere else?

Was there any president who ever asserted unlimited authority to declare national emergencies? If so, who was it, and was there any later limiting of that power by either the Supreme Court or Congress?

Where does the president's constitutional (if present) or statutory authority to do so come from today?
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Post p5harri
Immigration has been actually been trending down for the past decade.

Invasion is a scare tactic.

Trumps bluffing. He thinks if he talks bad the politicians will capitulate.

Eminem Domain will not end well for him politically.
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1/4/19 7:17 pm


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Post Resident Skeptic
p5harri wrote:
Immigration has been actually been trending down for the past decade.

Invasion is a scare tactic.


You have your head in the sand. But that is no surprise. Reagan warned us years ago that if the situation in central America deteriorates, we would see millions of refugees coming in on foot to our border. Sadly, they are indeed fulfilling Reagan's warning while storming our border waving the flags of the nations they are seeking "refuge" from.
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Post p5harri
Resident Skeptic wrote:
p5harri wrote:
Immigration has been actually been trending down for the past decade.

Invasion is a scare tactic.


You have your head in the sand. But that is no surprise. Reagan warned us years ago that if the situation in central America deteriorates, we would see millions of refugees coming in on foot to our border. Sadly, they are indeed fulfilling Reagan's warning while storming our border waving the flags of the nations they are seeking "refuge" from.


No. I just know how to research facts. Something you can’t seem to handle.
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1/4/19 7:21 pm


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Post Resident Skeptic
p5harri wrote:
Immigration has been actually been trending down for the past decade.

Invasion is a scare tactic.

Trumps bluffing. He thinks if he talks bad the politicians will capitulate.

Eminem Domain will not end well for him politically.


Who said he will have to use excessive imminent domain? Sounds to be you are the one using scare tactics, or drinking the Kool-Aid.
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Post Resident Skeptic
p5harri wrote:
Resident Skeptic wrote:
p5harri wrote:
Immigration has been actually been trending down for the past decade.

Invasion is a scare tactic.


You have your head in the sand. But that is no surprise. Reagan warned us years ago that if the situation in central America deteriorates, we would see millions of refugees coming in on foot to our border. Sadly, they are indeed fulfilling Reagan's warning while storming our border waving the flags of the nations they are seeking "refuge" from.


No. I just know how to research facts. Something you can’t seem to handle.


I know you cannot quote the Constitution chapter and verse. Please stop pretending that you can. One does not need to have such ability in order to grasp some basic constitutional facts. So spare us your condescending attitude.
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1/4/19 7:23 pm


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Post Dave Dorsey
Resident Skeptic wrote:
Repelling invasion does not require a declaration of war.

Gonna start calling you Resident Leftist, since it seems you've got the understanding of and respect for the constitution of an everyday progressive. Smile

https://history.house.gov/Institution/Origins-Development/War-Powers would probably help you a lot -- not change your view, necessarily, but at least help illustrate that the Constitution is basically a rag to you. Check out the "Constitutional Framing" issue and the compromise that did vest extremely short-term emergency power with the president and the concerns the founders had with that -- and especially their view of the slowness of Congress in those cases (it was positive).

BTW, calling our immigration problem a wartime invasion that needs to be repelled is absolutely beyond insane. You don't have any right telling anyone else they don't take this issue seriously when you're calling it that, LOL. But even granting that premise, you're in Constitutional la-la land.
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1/4/19 7:24 pm


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Post Dave Dorsey
Resident Skeptic wrote:
I know you cannot quote the Constitution chapter and verse. Please stop pretending that you can. One does not need to have such ability in order to grasp some basic constitutional facts. So spare us your condescending attitude.

I sure can't. I'm not even sure I could tell you every amendment in the Bill of Rights in the right order!

I'm not asking for quotes, though. Just a basic constitutional fact -- if you know what Article I (where all of the powers we've discussed thus far can be found) does.
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1/4/19 7:25 pm


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Post Resident Skeptic
p5harri wrote:
Resident Skeptic wrote:
p5harri wrote:
Immigration has been actually been trending down for the past decade.

Invasion is a scare tactic.


You have your head in the sand. But that is no surprise. Reagan warned us years ago that if the situation in central America deteriorates, we would see millions of refugees coming in on foot to our border. Sadly, they are indeed fulfilling Reagan's warning while storming our border waving the flags of the nations they are seeking "refuge" from.


No. I just know how to research facts. Something you can’t seem to handle.


Oh, and if you'd like to know about my research abilities, you may want to touch base with my professors at the Harrison Graduate School of Southwestern Assemblies of God University where I am about to enter the thesis phase of my graduate program. These are the same instructors who counted me worthy to maintain a 4.0 GPA since the Fall 2016 Semester.
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1/4/19 7:27 pm


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Post Resident Skeptic
Dave Dorsey wrote:
Resident Skeptic wrote:
I know you cannot quote the Constitution chapter and verse. Please stop pretending that you can. One does not need to have such ability in order to grasp some basic constitutional facts. So spare us your condescending attitude.

I sure can't. I'm not even sure I could tell you every amendment in the Bill of Rights in the right order!

I'm not asking for quotes, though. Just a basic constitutional fact -- if you know what Article I (where all of the powers we've discussed thus far can be found) does.


Actually, there is nothing in the Constitution that prohibits the States on the border from keeping unauthorized, non-American migrants from streaming in. Ah, but just let a State try to this unilaterally and see what happens.
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