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This interview is mind-blowing (L)

 
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Post This interview is mind-blowing (L) Dave Dorsey
I've taken some heat here for talking about "Trump and the evangelicals" -- this is what I'm talking about.

This is also why, IMO, talk about Trump is relevant on a religious forum.

Take a look: https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/jerry-falwell-jr-cant-imagine-trump-doing-anything-thats-not-good-for-the-country/2018/12/21/6affc4c4-f19e-11e8-80d0-f7e1948d55f4_story.html
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1/1/19 12:21 pm


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Post Re: This interview is mind-blowing (L) Resident Skeptic
Dave Dorsey wrote:
I've taken some heat here for talking about "Trump and the evangelicals" -- this is what I'm talking about.

This is also why, IMO, talk about Trump is relevant on a religious forum.

Take a look: https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/jerry-falwell-jr-cant-imagine-trump-doing-anything-thats-not-good-for-the-country/2018/12/21/6affc4c4-f19e-11e8-80d0-f7e1948d55f4_story.html


Give a rest, Dave. Fallwell is not claiming Trump is perfect or that he never might disagree with him on a policy. I did not agree with Trump on the bumpstocks. But I do not think that decision will be harmful to the country.


Why don't you give us a rundown on the Trump policies you think have been harmful to the country?
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1/1/19 4:36 pm


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Post Re: This interview is mind-blowing (L) Dave Dorsey
Resident Skeptic wrote:
Fallwell is not claiming Trump is perfect or that he never might disagree with him on a policy.

It's clear you didn't read the interview, because that's literally exactly what he said.

Quote:
Is there anything President Trump could do that would endanger that support from you or other evangelical leaders?

No.

That’s the shortest answer we’ve had so far.

Only because I know that he only wants what’s best for this country, and I know anything he does, it may not be ideologically “conservative,” but it’s going to be what’s best for this country, and I can’t imagine him doing anything that’s not good for the country.

Read that again -- "I know that ANYTHING HE DOES ... [is] going to be what's best for this country."
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1/1/19 4:42 pm


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Post Re: This interview is mind-blowing (L) Resident Skeptic
Dave Dorsey wrote:
Resident Skeptic wrote:
Fallwell is not claiming Trump is perfect or that he never might disagree with him on a policy.

It's clear you didn't read the interview, because that's literally exactly what he said.

Quote:
Is there anything President Trump could do that would endanger that support from you or other evangelical leaders?

No.

That’s the shortest answer we’ve had so far.

Only because I know that he only wants what’s best for this country, and I know anything he does, it may not be ideologically “conservative,” but it’s going to be what’s best for this country, and I can’t imagine him doing anything that’s not good for the country.

Read that again -- "I know that ANYTHING HE DOES ... [is] going to be what's best for this country."


I read what he said, and also noted what he did not say.

Now again, what Trump policies have been harmful to the country in your estimation?
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1/1/19 6:02 pm


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Post Re: This interview is mind-blowing (L) Dave Dorsey
Resident Skeptic wrote:
Now again, what Trump policies have been harmful to the country in your estimation?

Doesn't matter.

This short answer by David French to the question of what it means to be a conservative in the age of Trump is why your question isn't relevant to what I post about the president. I'm not sure if you'll take the time to read this with an open mind, but I hope you do:

Quote:
To be conservative in the age of Trump is to be constantly confronted with a question: Did you really believe what you said? That is, did you mean it when you argued for decades that character matters in politicians? When you stated clearly and unequivocally that lying under oath or causing others to lie under oath was grounds for impeachment? When you condemned unnecessary divisiveness and blatant identity politics? When you lamented the negative cultural effect of the Clinton presidency in spite of the economic prosperity?

At the same time, the instant you answer yes to those questions — and you start to ponder the natural implications of that yes — you’re immediately confronted with a different set of queries. Do you still believe in the policy aims of the conservative movement? In other words, do you still value originalist judges, lower taxes, and a strong national defense? Do you seek pro-life policies, the protection of religious liberty, and limitations on the regulatory state?

This is the life of the conservative in the age of Trump. All at once, long-sought policy victories become attainable. A positive judicial revolution unfolds. Our military has struck serious blows against jihadist terrorists overseas. These are developments we should cheer, but here’s the insidious thing — if you really, truly want to be or feel like a part of the Trump team, you must either abandon or remain silent about those other things, about those other values you hold dear. Yes, good conservatives can and do work in the administration, but they do so with the understanding that circumstances may demand their resignation, and their true loyalty remains to the Constitution — not the president.

We humans are uncomfortable with ambiguity. We like to know where — and with whom — we stand. We like to pick a team. Yet, the task of the conservative in the age of Trump is to reject that very human impulse and to embrace, for a time, wandering the uncomfortable wilderness without a tribe. That means there may well come a time when we have to urge the impeachment of a man who appoints the judges we love, who cuts our taxes, and who rebuilds our military. That means we have to remind our friends and neighbors that virtuous causes can be discredited by vile champions.

In short, the challenge for the conservative in the age of Trump is to continue to believe everything you used to believe. Because those things are good and true. Fail in either direction — abandon policy to defeat the man or embrace the man to exalt his policies — and conservatism will fail. It will have sacrificed its credibility on the altar of a single politician, and no man is worth that cost.
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1/1/19 6:10 pm


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Post Re: This interview is mind-blowing (L) Resident Skeptic
Dave Dorsey wrote:
Resident Skeptic wrote:
Now again, what Trump policies have been harmful to the country in your estimation?

Doesn't matter.

This short answer by David French to the question of what it means to be a conservative in the age of Trump is why your question isn't relevant to what I post about the president. I'm not sure if you'll take the time to read this with an open mind, but I hope you do:

Quote:
To be conservative in the age of Trump is to be constantly confronted with a question: Did you really believe what you said? That is, did you mean it when you argued for decades that character matters in politicians? When you stated clearly and unequivocally that lying under oath or causing others to lie under oath was grounds for impeachment? When you condemned unnecessary divisiveness and blatant identity politics? When you lamented the negative cultural effect of the Clinton presidency in spite of the economic prosperity?

At the same time, the instant you answer yes to those questions — and you start to ponder the natural implications of that yes — you’re immediately confronted with a different set of queries. Do you still believe in the policy aims of the conservative movement? In other words, do you still value originalist judges, lower taxes, and a strong national defense? Do you seek pro-life policies, the protection of religious liberty, and limitations on the regulatory state?

This is the life of the conservative in the age of Trump. All at once, long-sought policy victories become attainable. A positive judicial revolution unfolds. Our military has struck serious blows against jihadist terrorists overseas. These are developments we should cheer, but here’s the insidious thing — if you really, truly want to be or feel like a part of the Trump team, you must either abandon or remain silent about those other things, about those other values you hold dear. Yes, good conservatives can and do work in the administration, but they do so with the understanding that circumstances may demand their resignation, and their true loyalty remains to the Constitution — not the president.

We humans are uncomfortable with ambiguity. We like to know where — and with whom — we stand. We like to pick a team. Yet, the task of the conservative in the age of Trump is to reject that very human impulse and to embrace, for a time, wandering the uncomfortable wilderness without a tribe. That means there may well come a time when we have to urge the impeachment of a man who appoints the judges we love, who cuts our taxes, and who rebuilds our military. That means we have to remind our friends and neighbors that virtuous causes can be discredited by vile champions.

In short, the challenge for the conservative in the age of Trump is to continue to believe everything you used to believe. Because those things are good and true. Fail in either direction — abandon policy to defeat the man or embrace the man to exalt his policies — and conservatism will fail. It will have sacrificed its credibility on the altar of a single politician, and no man is worth that cost.


Dave, you ought to be ashamed. You won't answer my question because you are ashamed to admit you are a leftist. The quote is pointless because it does not establish how Trump is a vile champion. He has actually fought for things the more "refined" RINO candidates before him never actually pursued. I challenge you or the author of the quote above to demonstrate how we are abandoning values we hold dear. Hmm, someone who is a Brooklyn brawler who actually fights for conservative policies or polished guys like Kasich or McCain who lie to get votes while despising conservatism in their hearts.? Oh gee! WHO should I pick!!??
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Last edited by Resident Skeptic on 1/1/19 6:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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1/1/19 6:16 pm


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Post Re: This interview is mind-blowing (L) Dave Dorsey
Resident Skeptic wrote:
Dave, you ought to be ashamed. You won't answer my question because you are ashamed to admit you are a leftist.

Oh my.

If you need someone to establish for you that Trump is a vile champion, I think our views of the world are probably too disparate to ever see any sort of agreement here.


Last edited by Dave Dorsey on 1/1/19 6:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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1/1/19 6:17 pm


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Post Re: This interview is mind-blowing (L) Eddie Robbins
Dave Dorsey wrote:
Resident Skeptic wrote:
Dave, you ought to be ashamed. You won't answer my question because you are ashamed to admit you are a leftist.

Oh my.



Haha!
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1/1/19 6:19 pm


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Post Re: This interview is mind-blowing (L) Resident Skeptic
Dave Dorsey wrote:
Resident Skeptic wrote:
Dave, you ought to be ashamed. You won't answer my question because you are ashamed to admit you are a leftist.

Oh my.


You are a "conservative" in the tradition of Kasich, Dole, McCain, etc etc, those who really did discredit the conservative cause.
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Post Re: This interview is mind-blowing (L) Dave Dorsey
Resident Skeptic wrote:
You are a "conservative" in the tradition of Kasich, Dole, McCain, etc etc, those who really did discredit the conservative cause.

Being rejected as a participant in your and the president's brand of conservatism is an excellent way to start 2019. I wear that badge with honor.
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1/1/19 6:21 pm


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Post Re: This interview is mind-blowing (L) Resident Skeptic
Dave Dorsey wrote:
Resident Skeptic wrote:
You are a "conservative" in the tradition of Kasich, Dole, McCain, etc etc, those who really did discredit the conservative cause.

Being rejected as a participant in your and the president's brand of conservatism is an excellent way to start 2019. I wear that badge with honor.


How about Pat Buchanan, or Reagan, or Jefferson?
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Post Kind of in agreement with Falwell Aaron Scott
So far, I can't think of anything that Trump has done (I am speaking of policy--not shooting off at the lip/hip) that I greatly disagree with.

We have to realize that the content and the packaging can be at odds when it comes to Trump. He has solid ideas, I think, wrapped up in a package that causes pretty much everyone to occasionally be aghast.

Talk to North Korea. I agree. The other way wasn't working.

Pull troops from Syria. I agree. The military will NEVER want to come home. Why? Because they want a clear win on their record...AND...it allows desk jockeys to obtain "field experience" by coming in for a few months and serving as a commander...AND...it "justifies" increases in expenditures for new weapons systems, etc. But why should our boys continue dying or being risked unless we have an absolute clear objective? There will almost certainly ALWAYS be a "reason" for the military to be deployed. The question is whether it is a good reason. Do we think that the loss of around 5000 American boys was justified? It's unpatriotic to say otherwise! Why, the more the merrier! Besides, they're heroes for doing our bidding and dying for us. Did it really stop anything? Well, it did stop about 5000 boys from coming home alive. And many more it allowed to come home deeply scarred.

Taxes. Yep.

Embassy to Jerusalem. Oh, yeah!

Playing hardball with allies on military expenditures. Check! (No wonder they do so well economically--we bear the greatest burden in terms of the military.)

Renegotiating trade treaties. Yep. For it.

The thing is that we have become so accustomed to how the president "ought" to act, that we have mistaken good behavior on their part with effectiveness. And, on the other hand, we have mistaken poor behavior (that's Trump) with ineffectiveness. Yeah, he is brash, rough around the edges, and in need of his mouth washed out with soap sometime...but "Rocket Man" got NK to the table, and what we have now, even if it's not perfect, is FAR BETTER than what we did have with NK.

As for collusion with Russia, if someone is claiming that Russia is controlling Trump, that seems unlikely. You can be sure that everyone from lawyers and chiefs of staff have tried to control him. Didn't happen. As for getting dirt on Hillary from Russia, IF IT'S TRUE, THEN IT'S TRUE--AND FAIR. Why is it OK for one candidate to dig up dirt on someone SO LONG AS THEY DIDN'T GET THE DIRT FROM OVERSEAS?

Dirt is dirt.

Falwell was NOT saying that ANYTHING Trump did was utterly acceptable. He was speaking of POLICY, clearly. And if so, I agree. I think we all have enough sense to distinguish between his policy and his behavior. I doubt anyone but Trump thinks it's wonderful that he has to Tweet about pretty much everything, and do a bad job of it, too.
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Post p5harri
Never mind, It wouldn't matter.
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Post Re: Kind of in agreement with Falwell Resident Skeptic
Aaron Scott wrote:
So far, I can't think of anything that Trump has done (I am speaking of policy--not shooting off at the lip/hip) that I greatly disagree with.

We have to realize that the content and the packaging can be at odds when it comes to Trump. He has solid ideas, I think, wrapped up in a package that causes pretty much everyone to occasionally be aghast.

Talk to North Korea. I agree. The other way wasn't working.

Pull troops from Syria. I agree. The military will NEVER want to come home. Why? Because they want a clear win on their record...AND...it allows desk jockeys to obtain "field experience" by coming in for a few months and serving as a commander...AND...it "justifies" increases in expenditures for new weapons systems, etc. But why should our boys continue dying or being risked unless we have an absolute clear objective? There will almost certainly ALWAYS be a "reason" for the military to be deployed. The question is whether it is a good reason. Do we think that the loss of around 5000 American boys was justified? It's unpatriotic to say otherwise! Why, the more the merrier! Besides, they're heroes for doing our bidding and dying for us. Did it really stop anything? Well, it did stop about 5000 boys from coming home alive. And many more it allowed to come home deeply scarred.

Taxes. Yep.

Embassy to Jerusalem. Oh, yeah!

Playing hardball with allies on military expenditures. Check! (No wonder they do so well economically--we bear the greatest burden in terms of the military.)

Renegotiating trade treaties. Yep. For it.

The thing is that we have become so accustomed to how the president "ought" to act, that we have mistaken good behavior on their part with effectiveness. And, on the other hand, we have mistaken poor behavior (that's Trump) with ineffectiveness. Yeah, he is brash, rough around the edges, and in need of his mouth washed out with soap sometime...but "Rocket Man" got NK to the table, and what we have now, even if it's not perfect, is FAR BETTER than what we did have with NK.

As for collusion with Russia, if someone is claiming that Russia is controlling Trump, that seems unlikely. You can be sure that everyone from lawyers and chiefs of staff have tried to control him. Didn't happen. As for getting dirt on Hillary from Russia, IF IT'S TRUE, THEN IT'S TRUE--AND FAIR. Why is it OK for one candidate to dig up dirt on someone SO LONG AS THEY DIDN'T GET THE DIRT FROM OVERSEAS?

Dirt is dirt.

Falwell was NOT saying that ANYTHING Trump did was utterly acceptable. He was speaking of POLICY, clearly. And if so, I agree. I think we all have enough sense to distinguish between his policy and his behavior. I doubt anyone but Trump thinks it's wonderful that he has to Tweet about pretty much everything, and do a bad job of it, too.


But this line of reasoning is unacceptable brainwashing in the mind of our brother Dave. He will NOT go down your list and check off the ones he feels are "evil".
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1/2/19 6:09 pm


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Post Dave Dorsey
p5harri wrote:
Never mind, It wouldn't matter.

Saw your post before the edit -- and you're right -- but nope, it sure wouldn't matter.
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1/2/19 6:30 pm


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