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A tale of two presidents
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Post Re: No less an expert than Jerry Falwell jr says you're immoral if you don't support Trump Dave Dorsey
Resident Skeptic wrote:
He said "may" be immoral. At the very least, Trump has revealed who the Pharisee wing of the Evangelical community.

Finally, something we can agree about. Smile

In all seriousness, I'm not sure how a genuine believer could read what Falwell Jr. said in that interview and not walk away grieved, regardless of one's views of Trump. They are the words of someone with no faith in Christ, who has given himself completely to a leader of this world. Regardless of the qualities or nature of that leader, it is abominable to have words like the ones spoken in that interview come out of the mouth of any believer concerning a ruler of this present age, much less one with the character and holiness of Trump. To be castigated with a line from that interview is a considerable compliment.
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1/1/19 8:48 pm


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Post Re: No less an expert than Jerry Falwell jr says you're immoral if you don't support Trump Resident Skeptic
Dave Dorsey wrote:
Resident Skeptic wrote:
He said "may" be immoral. At the very least, Trump has revealed who the Pharisee wing of the Evangelical community.

Finally, something we can agree about. Smile

In all seriousness, I'm not sure how a genuine believer could read what Falwell Jr. said in that interview and not walk away grieved, regardless of one's views of Trump. They are the words of someone with no faith in Christ, who has given himself completely to a leader of this world. Regardless of the qualities or nature of that leader, it is abominable to have words like the ones spoken in that interview come out of the mouth of any believer concerning a ruler of this present age, much less one with the character and holiness of Trump. To be castigated with a line from that interview is a considerable compliment.


No they are words of someone who understands people like you have copped out by equating revolutionary zeal to preserve America to having no faith in Christ. smh. Yeah, understanding the need for radical action is "giving himself completely to a leader of this world". Straw man, Dave.


But hey. Be encouraged. Here are some thoughts from the landslide winner of the 2012 election, Mitt Romney.....

https://www.stamfordadvocate.com/opinion/article/How-a-president-shapes-the-public-character-13502232.php
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1/1/19 9:02 pm


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Post Dave Dorsey
We'll never see eye to eye on any of this, so we're pretty much arguing for the sake of anyone who might be watching. And that's fine.

You can be a believer and vote for Trump. UncleJD has made pretty good arguments on this forum in favor of supporting Trump despite his loathesome personal character, and I respect those arguments. Others have as well (caseyleejones just today).

But when you not only excuse but glorify that character and those failings, you have stepped off the reservation and are no longer functioning as an ambassador of Christ. That's just all there is to it.
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1/1/19 9:17 pm


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Post Quiet Wyatt
AlwaysTrumpers definitely fit into a class all by themselves. As it was with the Obama worshippers, it as if any criticism at all of their Fearless Leader is somehow indicative of an evil person. Acts-perienced Poster
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1/1/19 9:25 pm


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Post Hey Pal....retract that.....NOW!!! caseyleejones
Dave Dorsey wrote:
We'll never see eye to eye on any of this, so we're pretty much arguing for the sake of anyone who might be watching. And that's fine.

You can be a believer and vote for Trump. UncleJD has made pretty good arguments on this forum in favor of supporting Trump despite his loathesome personal character, and I respect those arguments. Others have as well (caseyleejones just today).

But when you not only excuse but glorify that character and those failings, you have stepped off the reservation and are no longer functioning as an ambassador of Christ. That's just all there is to it.


I did it before today.... Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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1/1/19 9:30 pm


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Post Re: Hey Pal....retract that.....NOW!!! Dave Dorsey
caseyleejones wrote:
I did it before today.... Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

I know, I meant you had done it as recently as today, not that you did it for the first time today. Laughing Laughing
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1/1/19 9:31 pm


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Post Resident Skeptic
Dave Dorsey wrote:
We'll never see eye to eye on any of this, so we're pretty much arguing for the sake of anyone who might be watching. And that's fine.

You can be a believer and vote for Trump. UncleJD has made pretty good arguments on this forum in favor of supporting Trump despite his loathesome personal character, and I respect those arguments. Others have as well (caseyleejones just today).

But when you not only excuse but glorify that character and those failings, you have stepped off the reservation and are no longer functioning as an ambassador of Christ. That's just all there is to it.


But of course, nobody did that.
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1/1/19 10:12 pm


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Post Resident Skeptic
Quiet Wyatt wrote:
AlwaysTrumpers definitely fit into a class all by themselves. As it was with the Obama worshippers, it as if any criticism at all of their Fearless Leader is somehow indicative of an evil person.


Straw man.
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1/1/19 10:13 pm


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Post Dave Dorsey
Resident Skeptic wrote:
Dave Dorsey wrote:
But when you not only excuse but glorify that character and those failings, you have stepped off the reservation and are no longer functioning as an ambassador of Christ. That's just all there is to it.


But of course, nobody did that.

You did that.

Quote:
Hmm, someone who is a Brooklyn brawler who actually fights for conservative policies or polished guys like Kasich or McCain who lie to get votes while despising conservatism in their hearts.? Oh gee! WHO should I pick!!??
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1/1/19 10:23 pm


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Post Resident Skeptic
Dave Dorsey wrote:
Resident Skeptic wrote:
Dave Dorsey wrote:
But when you not only excuse but glorify that character and those failings, you have stepped off the reservation and are no longer functioning as an ambassador of Christ. That's just all there is to it.


But of course, nobody did that.

You did that.

Quote:
Hmm, someone who is a Brooklyn brawler who actually fights for conservative policies or polished guys like Kasich or McCain who lie to get votes while despising conservatism in their hearts.? Oh gee! WHO should I pick!!??


I glorified character failings? Are you insane or self-deceived?
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1/1/19 11:05 pm


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Post Cojak
This is grown up fun I guess. I get the idea DD doesn't appreciate Trump at all. Then anyone who would even attempt to 'splain why they ,might think he has done some good is thrown to the side. Vice versa DD is cast aside because he cannot find ANY GOOD in the Strange person.

I am on the side lines. I have driven probably 30-50,000 miles in our great USA over the time Trump has been in.. I have seen more construction, highway building than I have in at least 20 years. We have a good economy. And I may be naive, but I think the president has something to do with the economy.

For now, I am on the side lines. My mama even gave the devil his dues. "Son he works hard."

What do you think of Lee Iacocca? To me he was a brain, a wise man. His agreement with designers and above many arguments, HE put the Mustang into production. Ford did the best it had ever done. I read both Iococca and Henry Ford jr (jr or II)'s auto biographies. In both the words, "Lee, you have been one of the best, but I just do not like you, you are fired." Iococca went to Chrysler and brought them out of the red with the Mini-van.

Ford could afford to say, "We will never do as well without you, but I do not like you!" I do not feel that way about our economy. Everyone, even churches need a good economy. I for one do not believe President Obama set this economy so it would fly, in his own words he did not expect a robust economy.

That is my 2 cents worth. I despise Tweets, Trumps 3rd grade name calling frustrates me. I am in limbo, I hope he decides not to run again and we have a good alternative. I do not see him going in on a landslide, but I do hope our economy stays strong enough that soon we can live on what we take in and leave the deficit area.
I will vote for Trump next time if the alternative is as bad a Hillary.

Confused Embarassed
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1/2/19 12:20 am


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Post Cojak
Please, before you decide I have sold my soul for a good economy I voted for Jimmy Carter because I saw him as a good man and a Christian. I still thought Jimmy was a Christian, but I voted for someone who on the surface was not a person who touted they were 'born again' when the economy went south. I had homes for sale with an economy showing 20% interest loans. I knew we needed better. I survived but many of my Christian friends lost everything.

You have brothers and sisters who depend on this economy, to live and to support their local church. So please do not throw the economy to the wolves, it is important to many Christians too. Embarassed Me? I no longer have to worry, I am soon out of here, but my young friends and family need jobs and maybe you do too. Maybe you are economy proofed. I hope so....

Love you guys, have fun! Because presently, it is what it is..... Smile
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1/2/19 12:41 am


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Post Dave Dorsey
Resident Skeptic wrote:
I glorified character failings? Are you insane or self-deceived?

Separate from any support for the president because of his policies -- do you condemn his character as wicked and beneath the dignity of the office of president?
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1/2/19 6:41 am


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Post Resident Skeptic
Dave Dorsey wrote:
Resident Skeptic wrote:
I glorified character failings? Are you insane or self-deceived?

Separate from any support for the president because of his policies -- do you condemn his character as wicked and beneath the dignity of the office of president?


Are you referring to his sexual antics before holding the office?
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1/2/19 7:13 am


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Post Dave Dorsey
I'm referring to the character he displays day to day. Acts Admin
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1/2/19 7:56 am


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Post Resident Skeptic
Dave Dorsey wrote:
I'm referring to the character he displays day to day.


And would you mind explaining how his day-to-day character is "wicked"?

Webster's defines "wicked" as....

Quote:
morally very bad : evil


Which of Trump's policies or actions as President has been morally very bad or evil?
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1/2/19 10:45 am


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Post Dave Dorsey
If someone who follows the news as closely as you do needs an explanation to know what I'm referring to, you've answered the question I was asking. Thanks. Acts Admin
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1/2/19 11:22 am


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Post Dave.... Aaron Scott
If by Trump's behavior toward women (in or out of office), then YES, he acted immorally.

If by him being a loose cannon with his mouth, I don't know if that is as much immoral as it is foolish. Either way, it's not good.

But virtually EVERY president (and, come to think of it, many pastors) have this dichotomy between what we would wish and how they actually behave. I trust that I am a man of God, but do I leave a LOT to be desired? I sure do!

It is my OPINION that Trump finally caught on to the liberal way of doing things: namely, to accuse someone of something and demand an abject apology...then call for their head anyway. He finally learned to "double down," and just keep fighting.

Is that best? No. But under the circumstances, it doesn't seem any worse than what the other side is doing (which doesn't make it right!).

But immoral behavior does not a bad president make. If so, then pretty much EVERY president has been a bad president. Nixon certainly played close to the line on morality, yet even some liberal historians consider him to be a very effective president in many ways.

Reagan, our hero? He allowed his wife to control him based on ASTROLOGY. That is a whole magnitude worse, in my opinion, than anything Trump has done, and I am a big fan of Reagan. Trump's' main crime seems to be his brashness and abrasiveness in saying things that are mean...and sometimes not strictly true (or at least not in the way we have understood the matter).
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1/2/19 1:02 pm


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Post Re: Dave.... Nature Boy Florida
Aaron Scott wrote:


It is my OPINION that Trump finally caught on to the liberal way of doing things: namely, to accuse someone of something and demand an abject apology...then call for their head anyway. He finally learned to "double down," and just keep fighting.


Agreed Aaron.

He is simply doing things the way the liberals do things.

And now without either side having any qualms about calling each other ugly things - our politics have become like Great Britains.

It functions - but everything is a brawl.

Not sure what will bring both parties back to civility.

Hillary said they couldn't be civil until Trump was out - but I don't think that will help anything. We've crossed over a bridge that got nuked as we crossed over.
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1/2/19 1:19 pm


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Post Re: Dave.... Dave Dorsey
Nature Boy Florida wrote:
He is simply doing things the way the liberals do things.

And now without either side having any qualms about calling each other ugly things - our politics have become like Great Britains.

It functions - but everything is a brawl.

Not sure what will bring both parties back to civility.

Hillary said they couldn't be civil until Trump was out - but I don't think that will help anything. We've crossed over a bridge that got nuked as we crossed over.

NBF - I agree with your analysis here 100%.
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1/2/19 1:33 pm


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