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If the COG and other Pentecostal Denoms are right...

 
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Post If the COG and other Pentecostal Denoms are right... buttrfli24
If the COG and other Pentecostal denominations are right and we have found the only biblical way to do Christianity, I am left with some questions I hope you all can help me with.

If that is true, why aren't we out telling people? I get it, we evangelize... but why are there more COG congregations in my small town (not even speaking of other Pentecostal churches) than in the entire Midwestern state my friend lives in. Why is that?

Why doesn't God make it plain to others so they are not lost? If our way is the best way, why isn't that shown plainly to people over the past 2000 years instead of a relatively new discovery by us in the last 100+ years?

If our way isn't really the only way or even the best way, why do we spend so much time tearing down "nominal" churches and non-Pentecostals who too believe they are doing God's work by bringing people to Jesus?

I am not trying to be argumentative. I sincerely do not understand why these things are true. I am a 4th generation member of the COG and I love it and the people in it. I am not mad at anyone. I just don't understand.
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12/31/18 9:50 am


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Post Re: If the COG and other Pentecostal Denoms are right... Dave Dorsey
buttrfli24 wrote:
If the COG and other Pentecostal denominations are right and we have found the only biblical way to do Christianity. ... Why doesn't God make it plain to others so they are not lost?

It sounds like you are saying the COG and other Pentecostal denominations believe churches who do not practice Pentecostal beliefs are not actually saved. If so, I don't think I have ever met anyone in the COG, AOG, or another orthodox Pentecostal denomination who believes that. I suspect that belief may be more common in Oneness circles, but I have never seen it expressed by anyone in mainline Pentecostalism.
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12/31/18 10:07 am


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Post buttrfli24
I have literally heard men in the pulpit denigrate non Pentecostals, and go so far as to say unless you are filled with the holy ghost you will not go in the rapture. I don't think it is an official statement of any group but it seems from the pew to be sort of the attitude of a number of preachers I know. But I may just be hanging out with the wrong people. Wink
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12/31/18 10:33 am


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Post Dave Dorsey
buttrfli24 wrote:
I have literally heard men in the pulpit denigrate non Pentecostals, and go so far as to say unless you are filled with the holy ghost you will not go in the rapture. I don't think it is an official statement of any group but it seems from the pew to be sort of the attitude of a number of preachers I know. But I may just be hanging out with the wrong people. Wink

That's fascinating (and sad)! It'll be real interesting to hear others share their views and perspectives and see if others have experienced the same. I have heard this from Oneness folks for sure, but never in the COG. For reference, I'm in northeastern Maryland.
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12/31/18 10:47 am


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Post Eddie Robbins
buttrfli24 wrote:
I have literally heard men in the pulpit denigrate non Pentecostals, and go so far as to say unless you are filled with the holy ghost you will not go in the rapture. I don't think it is an official statement of any group but it seems from the pew to be sort of the attitude of a number of preachers I know. But I may just be hanging out with the wrong people. Wink


I’ve been around a while. I have never heard anybody in the COG say that. I know that it was once a teaching before my time but I’ve never heard it.
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12/31/18 11:54 am


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Post sheepdogandy
As I have shared over the years. My wife's family hails from Big Sand Mountain Alabama. Hiway Church of God Geraldine, AL.

"The Church of God is right Hallelujah to the Lamb!"

I was born and raised Southern Baptist so having been exposed to let's say a particular perspective, I will contribute the following.

There was a teaching among some (not all) that the Church of God Cleveland, TN was in fact THE Church.

One of my wife's aunts shared with me that her sister (another aunt) had wandered into the A/G but the Lord "showed her the light concerning the Church of God" and she was restored.

It is an ancient attitude that has seen it's day come and go.
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Post Nature Boy Florida
I have heard it from my COG pastor when I was in my teens.

I left that church first chance - as that wasn't the only problem.

And I attended a COGOP church with a friend that really believed it, as well.

I left that friend first chance, as well.
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Post Yes, Pentecost is best, but... Aaron Scott
Back a good number of years ago in the Church of God, there was indeed a movement by some to claim that only the Church of God was going to make it to heaven, etc. It was Paul Laverne Walker's dad, Paul H. Walker, who not only contested against this take, but wrote articles in our publications to deal with this.

At the same time, I make no excuses about it: Pentecostal is the best understanding of Christianity. I'm not talking about the tongues-obsessed stereotypes of Pentecostals, but of the true belief that God still works in mighty ways, that Acts was meant for all. (NOTE: We don't remotely live up to this, but we do aspire to it and hold it as the standard that we believe in.)

I have no doubt that many non-Pentecostals will meet the Lord in the air. They might even be far better than Pentecostals in some ways. BUT living the Christian life without believing as Pentecostals do (i.e., God is still at work in miraculous ways) is to live beneath your birthright.

There are Baptists and Presbyterians that are far better men of God than some of us. Being non-Pentecostal does not mean you aren't saved. It simply means that one has not availed themselves to all the is available from God.

I feel confident, however, that those who hold such non-Pentecostal beliefs do so with the pure intent--i.e., they truly belief in cessationism. They aren't evil, bad, or unsaved, but rather are simply not fully informed.
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12/31/18 7:27 pm


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Post Re: If the COG and other Pentecostal Denoms are right... Cojak
buttrfli24 wrote:
If the COG and other Pentecostal denominations are right and we have found the only biblical way to do Christianity, I am left with some questions I hope you all can help me with.

If that is true, why aren't we out telling people? I get it, we evangelize... but why are there more COG congregations in my small town (not even speaking of other Pentecostal churches) than in the entire Midwestern state my friend lives in. Why is that?

Why doesn't God make it plain to others so they are not lost? If our way is the best way, why isn't that shown plainly to people over the past 2000 years instead of a relatively new discovery by us in the last 100+ years?

If our way isn't really the only way or even the best way, why do we spend so much time tearing down "nominal" churches and non-Pentecostals who too believe they are doing God's work by bringing people to Jesus?

I am not trying to be argumentative. I sincerely do not understand why these things are true. I am a 4th generation member of the COG and I love it and the people in it. I am not mad at anyone. I just don't understand.


This a strange thing. My dad was a pioneer in the COG. I NEVER heard him state the things you have said. BUT , for some reason in my youth I got the idea that the COG, Pentecostals were THE ONLY WAY. Absolutely in our area of the country that ATTITUDE was prevalent. As I stated, I never heard it under my dad but I still got that attitude from Camp Meetings and evangelists in the 1950s. I know Butterfli is much younger than I, but I can still understand what she is saying. Shocked
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Post Re: If the COG and other Pentecostal Denoms are right... Aaron Scott
Cojak wrote:
buttrfli24 wrote:
If the COG and other Pentecostal denominations are right and we have found the only biblical way to do Christianity, I am left with some questions I hope you all can help me with.

If that is true, why aren't we out telling people? I get it, we evangelize... but why are there more COG congregations in my small town (not even speaking of other Pentecostal churches) than in the entire Midwestern state my friend lives in. Why is that?

Why doesn't God make it plain to others so they are not lost? If our way is the best way, why isn't that shown plainly to people over the past 2000 years instead of a relatively new discovery by us in the last 100+ years?

If our way isn't really the only way or even the best way, why do we spend so much time tearing down "nominal" churches and non-Pentecostals who too believe they are doing God's work by bringing people to Jesus?

I am not trying to be argumentative. I sincerely do not understand why these things are true. I am a 4th generation member of the COG and I love it and the people in it. I am not mad at anyone. I just don't understand.


This a strange thing. My dad was a pioneer in the COG. I NEVER heard him state the things you have said. BUT , for some reason in my youth I got the idea that the COG, Pentecostals were THE ONLY WAY. Absolutely in our area of the country that ATTITUDE was prevalent. As I stated, I never heard it under my dad but I still got that attitude from Camp Meetings and evangelists in the 1950s. I know Butterfli is much younger than I, but I can still understand what she is saying. Shocked



Cojak, I think the "attitude" might have been prevalent for many of us, since in that time, the Church of God was looked down upon by the other denominations, for the most part.

I think the Paul H. Walker thing was to likely to push back against not just the attitude, but the impetus to make it part of the our beliefs/standards/doctrine.
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1/2/19 10:47 am


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Post Few Churches ZKP
We have few COG churches in our area of middle Tennessee. As a Lee graduate and 5th generation COG, I never thought much of not attending one of our churches. Growing up, I was member of Doraville COG and then Buford COG in North Georgia, until moving to the Nashville area. We were shocked to find that there were very few COG here. Have not attended COG in more than 20 years, mostly because there is only one (Hendersonville COG) but it is quite a drive. There is a COGOP here in Gallatin, TN, that is the home church for our daughter-in-law's family. While rather small, It has a wonderful pastor and congregation. When we are here a home, we attend there a couple of times a month and Longhollow Baptist once in a while. Member
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5/5/19 10:20 am


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Post We sit in our churches of 50 people... roughridercog
And look up the street at a Baptist church running 500 with an active Christian education, missions, evangelism, and discipleship program and say, "What those people could only do if they had the Holy Ghost."

WARNING--UNPOPULAR STATEMENT COMING

Dare I say this?

Some of the shenanigans that have gone on in our churches have filled more non Pentecostal churches than our own.

There

Said it and I'm glad.

Nyah Nyah Nyah
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5/5/19 3:10 pm


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Post Re: We sit in our churches of 50 people... Cojak
roughridercog wrote:
And look up the street at a Baptist church running 500 with an active Christian education, missions, evangelism, and discipleship program and say, "What those people could only do if they had the Holy Ghost."

WARNING--UNPOPULAR STATEMENT COMING

Dare I say this?

Some of the shenanigans that have gone on in our churches have filled more non Pentecostal churches than our own.

There

Said it and I'm glad.

Nyah Nyah Nyah


It might be an unpopular statement, but it is actually a truth. AND that is a shame. Crying or Very sad
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Post My church has a whole lot more than 50 or 500 brotherjames
And we practice, teach and model Pentecost. We have not arrived nor do we denigrate other denominations. We know what we believe and are sad for those who have not received the truth as we practice and teach it. The AG even in it's less than full Pentecostal state is still growing. We gave more than 14000 churches in the USA, we have 67 million in our associated fellowships around the world and more than 2500 missionaries in over 220 nations of the world. Not sure what you all are talking about on this thread. Acts-celerater
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Post revuriah
I remember when I went through what was then called MAP (CAMS nowadays), reading that Tomlinson understood the fledgling COG to be THE Church of Acts. He felt our denomination was Acts 29, so to speak. So I can see why some of our early pioneers felt we had something exclusive.

Not an attitude I’ve seen in my 20 plus years in the COG. I used to have the attitude that as a Pentecostal, I had something better than the mainline Lutheran church I grew up in. Eventually, that attitude passed.

I have seen the exclusive attitude in the Oneness movement for sure. My wife had a cousin who married a Oneness kid. That kid tried to evangelize me at my in-laws house, knowing I was Pentecostal. I also once worked with a guy that was Oneness. He knew I was a preacher, but because I wasn’t “baptized in Jesus’ Name”, and did not come out of the water speaking in tongues, he started to call me “Apollos”. Then he found out I did indeed speak in tongues. He was dumbfounded because it went against his theology.
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Post The Christian Union church began due to the belief that... Aaron Scott
...the other churches in the area had strayed from the original intent of the Church. In fact, as far as Spurling was concerned, this straying began at Nicea in 325 AD.

Pentecost is, in my mind, WITHOUT QUESTION the best understanding of Christianity. However, it would be divisive and undiplomatic to try to preach it very strongly, since such a sermon is almost certainly going to be misunderstood and misconstrued.

As I have mentioned elsewhere, being Pentecostal is not a prerequisite for heaven.

At the same time, the non-Pentecostal churches have ALREADY identified that the Pentecostal churches have something they didn't have. We see this expressed in the significant strides in their music and worship. They saw that the Pentecostals had much more vibrant and powerful worship and began to incorporate it as much as they could within doctrinal boundaries.

The Southern Baptist Church, if I recall, allows their missionaries to speak in tongues.

They KNOW. We don't have to preach it to them. It became quite apparent to them when the Pentecostal churches, always on the wrong side of the tracks, begin to expand exponentially until it was the largest (or one of them) movements within Christianity.

At the same time, I doubt anyone would deny that the Baptist Church likely has a far more effective youth program (Awanas) than most Pentecostal churches.

The Jehovah's Witnesses has a far more effective door-to-door evangelism effort.

The Mormons have a superior merging of family and church.

On and on. Of course, yes, Pentecost trumps all of these. But many churches, despite what may be in their doctrinal statements, already believe Jesus' still heals and that miracles take place, etc.
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Post Re: The Christian Union church began due to the belief that... Tom Sterbens
Aaron Scott wrote:
....
Pentecost is, in my mind, WITHOUT QUESTION the best understanding of Christianity.


It would be beneficial if you would dilenate between Biblical Pentecost and the church born on that day...as opposed to "the Penetcostal church" as defined by ecclesiastical culture.

I think it is smug (at a minimum) to suppose that "the Pentecostal church" church of today is "the best" version of the universal church born in Acts 2.

To come up with that conclusion both asks and answers the wrong question.
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