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 #WALKAWAY (from the GOP) |
UncleJD |
Time after time since the 70s, the Christian right in general and the pro-life movement in particular, have given the GOP a majority in both houses, and at least 3 times, the Presidency as well. This time, they even had the majority in the SCOTUS, giving them lock and key ownership of the entire government of the United States. What have they done to keep their campaign promises regarding abortion? They have continued to fund abortion-giant Planned Parenthood with our own money! The last straw for me, I think, is Kavenaugh, refusing to even hear whether a state can defund tax-payer financed abortion or not.
I am convinced, more than ever, that the GOP has become to pro-life conservative Christians, what the Democratic party has become to minorities. Our "sugar daddy", in a manner of speaking. Whereas the Dems offer just enough money to subsist and get the vote, but not enough change to EVER make a difference (lest they should become independent), The GOP does the same with us, just enough rhetoric in their campaigns to get us fired up and voting, but NEVER any change lest we should be able to move on from a single issue.
I haven't fully made my mind up, though I think I'm close, but it seems that we have a choice. Keep supporting the GOP which has proven for 45 years that they will NEVER end abortion and in fact will keep you paying for it. Or change our way of thinking to a more classically American view-point, that of freedom, and the Libertarian movement. |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3138
12/17/18 9:49 am
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Quiet Wyatt |
In the 2016 election, conscience compelled me to support the Constitution Party. The Libertarians were a bridge too far for me. I have never felt a clearer conscience voting for any other party.
https://www.constitutionparty.com |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12792
12/17/18 10:30 am
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UncleJD |
| Quiet Wyatt wrote: | In the 2016 election, conscience compelled me to support the Constitution Party. The Libertarians were a bridge too far for me. I have never felt a clearer conscience voting for any other party.
https://www.constitutionparty.com |
I agree with much of the Constitution party platform, but I don't think it could win any major election. I do think libertarianism (lower-case l), is the only way out of the 2 party "do nothing" system. Regardless of their morality, they ALL agree that the government should not fund it, and that you should be 100% free to practice what you believe. |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3138
12/17/18 10:37 am
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| Both parties will stop a third one....but for now...as a Christ-Follower |
caseyleejones |
| I cannot support a platform that is anti-God on every level the dems currently embrace. Is Trump a great president? He is not hostile toward Christianity.....and "it's the platform stupid". |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11794
12/17/18 10:45 am
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Dave Dorsey |
UncleJD - couldn't agree more. Excellent post.
I am not sure there is a viable path from point A (status quo) to point B (successful classical liberal party) but I think it's time we start pushing toward it anyway. |
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Posts: 13654
12/17/18 10:47 am
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Quiet Wyatt |
I finally came to the point that having a clear conscience in voting was all that mattered to me. I lost all faith in the GOP ever doing anything to eliminate abortion. I would be absolutely astounded if they ever do anything to stop it. They have no reason to. All they do is hold up the sanctity of life issue as a carrot to get evangelicals and Catholics to vote for them. But they never follow through.
The libertarians have no real chance of winning, either, so long as the GOP continues to have the misplaced confidence it enjoys. As long as we continue to appeal to pragmatism, and see the two-party system as the only way to make our vote count, third parties will remain a fringe, ‘protest’ vote, unfortunately. |
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Posts: 12792
12/17/18 10:49 am
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| Re: Both parties will stop a third one....but for now...as a Christ-Follower |
UncleJD |
| caseyleejones wrote: | | I cannot support a platform that is anti-God on every level the dems currently embrace. Is Trump a great president? He is not hostile toward Christianity.....and "it's the platform stupid". |
I don't think anyone here could support the Dems, that's a given. But what then? Keep voting GOP and hoping they will keep their promises? Is 45 years not enough time to discern the truth about them? I support Trump (for now), but it doesn't look like he is going to be able to drain the swamp like he thought, even his "conservative" judicial appointment has backfired already. That's why I'm really considering a change, but it would require something that at least 33% of Americans could agree on. And I think that could only be libertarianism at this point. In other words, "we won't force our morality on you, you don't force your sin on us, we'll rely on the gospel to change individuals instead of forcing everyone". |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3138
12/17/18 10:50 am
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Dave Dorsey |
I voted for the Constitution party in 2016 and I suspect I'll do the same in 2020. I live in a very Democratic state (MD) so it's not exactly a huge step of conscience; my state is going Dem with or without me.
I do think I could vote for a Dem who wasn't crazy or in league with folks that wanted to stifle free speech and basic liberties. I could probably vote for Crazy Uncle Joe. However, I don't think there are any other Democrats that could ever meet my criteria and I am sure a candidate Biden would be surrounded by far-left liberals that I could never support. |
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Posts: 13654
12/17/18 11:44 am
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Eddie Robbins |
I also voted third party and will probably do so again if Trump is the nominee. I know that a third party can’t win but, at least, my name won’t be tied to Trump. I’m so sad that so many of our brothers and sisters have been duped into believing that he is for them.  |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16509
12/17/18 3:54 pm
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Dave Dorsey |
| Eddie Robbins wrote: | | I also voted third party and will probably do so again if Trump is the nominee. I know that a third party can’t win but, at least, my name won’t be tied to Trump. I’m so sad that so many of our brothers and sisters have been duped into believing that he is for them. |
It's kinda funny, during the Kavanaugh debacle I felt like I might be able to support Trump in 2020. He stuck to his guns in supporting his nominee, but otherwise stayed out of it. I was so disgusted by what the left did that for a brief space of time, Trump did seem reasonable by comparison. It didn't take him long to correct that, though. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
12/17/18 4:13 pm
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UncleJD |
| Eddie Robbins wrote: | | I also voted third party and will probably do so again if Trump is the nominee. I know that a third party can’t win but, at least, my name won’t be tied to Trump. I’m so sad that so many of our brothers and sisters have been duped into believing that he is for them. |
This isn't about Trump, in fact he's the first Republican (since Reagan) that seems to have at least tried to fight the status quo. I didn't like him or vote for him in the primaries, but he is not the reason the GOP has lied to us and refused to even de-fund PP when they had every chance in the world. As a party, they are ALL worse than Trump in every way, especially since they do it behind a bunch of lying smiling faces. |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3138
12/17/18 4:42 pm
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Dave Dorsey |
| UncleJD wrote: | | This isn't about Trump, in fact he's the first Republican (since Reagan) that seems to have at least tried to fight the status quo. I didn't like him or vote for him in the primaries, but he is not the reason the GOP has lied to us and refused to even de-fund PP when they had every chance in the world. As a party, they are ALL worse than Trump in every way, especially since they do it behind a bunch of lying smiling faces. |
It's not about Trump, but for people who have hoped the GOP would change, it's now becoming clear that they are -- but toward Trumpism (and there will be more like him on both the right and the left), not classic liberalism. So at least for me, that makes walking away an easier decision. The GOP finally is changing, but it's not being pulled between the GOP you describe and a libertarian/classic liberal GOP, but between the GOP you describe and Trumpism, and I want to pass on both. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
12/17/18 4:46 pm
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UncleJD |
| Dave Dorsey wrote: | | UncleJD wrote: | | This isn't about Trump, in fact he's the first Republican (since Reagan) that seems to have at least tried to fight the status quo. I didn't like him or vote for him in the primaries, but he is not the reason the GOP has lied to us and refused to even de-fund PP when they had every chance in the world. As a party, they are ALL worse than Trump in every way, especially since they do it behind a bunch of lying smiling faces. |
It's not about Trump, but for people who have hoped the GOP would change, it's now becoming clear that they are -- but toward Trumpism (and there will be more like him on both the right and the left), not classic liberalism. So at least for me, that makes walking away an easier decision. The GOP finally is changing, but it's not being pulled between the GOP you describe and a libertarian/classic liberal GOP, but between the GOP you describe and Trumpism, and I want to pass on both. |
Trumpism is confined to Trump, proven by the fact that the entire GOP can't and won't get his agenda done. I think, for me at least, that Trump has shone the light on the lies of the GOP and their use of the pro-life movement as a puppet on a string. |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3138
12/17/18 4:58 pm
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Dave Dorsey |
| UncleJD wrote: | | Trumpism is confined to Trump, proven by the fact that the entire GOP can't and won't get his agenda done. |
Well, as you said, this isn't about Trump so out of respect for your thread I will decline to respond.  I'd be game to discuss elsewhere though. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
12/17/18 4:59 pm
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| Re: #WALKAWAY (from the GOP) |
Cojak |
| UncleJD wrote: | ...
I haven't fully made my mind up, though I think I'm close, but it seems that we have a choice. Keep supporting the GOP which has proven for 45 years that they will NEVER end abortion and in fact will keep you paying for it. Or change our way of thinking to a more classically American view-point, that of freedom, and the Libertarian movement. |
To me it is a sad truth, there are things that once taken out of the box, CANNOT be put back in. Of course my opinion will not effect Abortion, Gay Marriage and making Alcohol or Pot illegal.
The one thing I KNOW can & should be done of those listed is "Not Funding Abortions." Congress will NEVER make abortion ILLEGAL or DISAVOW Gay Marriage, but they CAN STOP TAX MONEY being used to fund abortions.
They could do that without being voted out of office by liberals, but TOO MANY know voting to outlaw abortion, they WILL lose their jobs. 
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
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Posts: 24277
12/17/18 8:41 pm
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diakoneo |
I think there are some good Republicans out there. Many more than there are good Democrats.
Many of them got hoodooed by kavanaugh and Roberts. When Lindsey Graham so vigorously defends a person...you better look at his pedigree a lot closer!
As to alternatives, I don't see any viable options out there that will move the political needle. Unless there is a major socio-economical upheaval. The mold is set.
Maybe it is time the church had true revival and stopped depending on the political systems. Just a thought |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3382
12/17/18 10:03 pm
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Nature Boy Florida |
Another Ross Perot is needed.
Fiscal responsibility.
Common sense.
No stupid tweets.
Not sure if that guy exists anywhere.
_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16619
12/18/18 7:57 am
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UncleJD |
| diakoneo wrote: |
Maybe it is time the church had true revival and stopped depending on the political systems. Just a thought |
This is my thought as well. That is why I think we as the Church have erred in giving our support and hope to a party that we think will legislate the morality that we desire rather than letting the gospel do so. I believe libertarianism is a way forward for America, it gets our hope out of government and allows our freedom to preach the gospel and let Jesus change lives instead. Just my thoughts as of late. |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3138
12/18/18 9:16 am
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Quiet Wyatt |
Though Ron Paul was pro-life, the Libertarian Party unfortunately is strongly pro-choice, and does not view the unborn infant as a person with the inalienable right to life. Libertarians also are for the following: “Therefore, we favor the repeal of all laws creating “crimes†without victims, such as gambling, the use of drugs for medicinal or recreational purposes, and consensual transactions involving sexual services.“ https://www.lp.org/platform/
The Libertarian Party is in favor of legalizing all abortion, gambling, ‘consensual’ prostitution, and legalizing ‘recreational’ drug use, which would include all drugs, not just pot, obviously.
These are several of the reasons I couldn’t support them in good conscience at all. I can’t imagine very many conservatives becoming Libertarians, for these very same reasons. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12792
12/18/18 12:29 pm
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UncleJD |
| Quiet Wyatt wrote: | Though Ron Paul was pro-life, the Libertarian Party unfortunately is strongly pro-choice, and does not view the unborn infant as a person with the inalienable right to life. Libertarians also are for the following: “Therefore, we favor the repeal of all laws creating “crimes†without victims, such as gambling, the use of drugs for medicinal or recreational purposes, and consensual transactions involving sexual services.“ https://www.lp.org/platform/
The Libertarian Party is in favor of legalizing all abortion, gambling, ‘consensual’ prostitution, and legalizing ‘recreational’ drug use, which would include all drugs, not just pot, obviously.
These are several of the reasons I couldn’t support them in good conscience at all. I can’t imagine very many conservatives becoming Libertarians, for these very same reasons. |
The idea that if we just vote for 45 more years and maybe we can legislate the morality we want is a proven pipe dream. No, I don't agree with the morality of roughly half of the people in this country or in the libertarian movement. But you are missing t he point, while they may not agree with my morals, they are 100% against government funding it. They are 100% for freedom of speech, expression (preaching), self defense, etc... We need to think that over is all I'm saying here. A way forward. |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3138
12/18/18 1:00 pm
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