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 This forum currently |
Dunamis007 |
As a long time follower but a recent poster does this forum seem a bit off these days?
I see a lot of fluff and politics which was always here to a lesser degree but very little substance. Is it because all the major issues have been discussed ad nauseum or is it the lack of some of the more substantive posters who used to be here?
Just wondering. I check in every week or so but something is different. Maybe its just me. Merry Christmas to all. Not a criticism just an observation. |
Member
Posts: 29
12/11/18 2:27 pm
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| Re: This forum currently |
Dave Dorsey |
| Dunamis007 wrote: | | Is it because all the major issues have been discussed ad nauseum |
I think it's mostly this, to be honest. Political discussion is something that interests a lot of folks here, and the daily news always provides fresh content. Meanwhile, a lot of the big items of debate on other topics have been hashed and rehashed and rehashed over literally well over a decade of time.
That said, even though I post a lot of political stuff I'd personally prefer a better balance with other topics -- but, in their absence, I think any conversation is good conversation. My two cents. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
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12/11/18 2:35 pm
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Eddie Robbins |
| Absolutely correct! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16509
12/11/18 2:43 pm
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| Don't worry |
roughridercog |
There will be another General Assembly soon. Plus there is summer camp meetings.
We don't have a ton of "Who is going to XYZ church? So and so tried out last Sunday. Does his church know that he is looking to move?"
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Doctor of Bovinamodulation |
Acts Mod
Posts: 25305
12/11/18 4:16 pm
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Nature Boy Florida |
Agreed: No thought provoking posts anymore.
I guess the only guys left here are not very thoughtful.
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Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16646
12/11/18 4:20 pm
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UncleJD |
what about the posters who lament these things so much? Can we get a list of their thoughtful and intriguing posts?  |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3147
12/11/18 4:24 pm
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diakoneo |
someone could always start a thread on whether or not it was wine or grape juice that Jesus turned the water into...
that always seems to get some hits
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Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3382
12/11/18 7:43 pm
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| No point |
spartanfan |
| Every time they do I prove it was grape juice and then that ends the discussion. |
Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
Posts: 3638
12/11/18 9:48 pm
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| Re: No point |
Cojak |
| spartanfan wrote: | | Every time they do I prove it was grape juice and then that ends the discussion. |
Good one. But that proof had holes in it!
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Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011
Posts: 24285
12/12/18 1:22 am
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| This forum: A solution |
Preacher777 |
I go out of my way to speak the truth in love on this forum and everywhere else so no offense to anybody with this post. When somebody complains about our church or the church in general often I say, "There are some issues but what can you and I do to improve the situation?" I also get frustrated with things at times, share with my wife then ask God for the best response to the situation.
I am not offended at all if somebody doesn't like my posts or chooses not to read them. However, I try to post things we can discuss in regards to achieving our gaols in reaching souls and building up the body of Christ while encouraging one another. Maybe this is an advertisement for my next post! |
Friendly Face
Posts: 434
12/12/18 7:29 am
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| Re: No point |
Dave Dorsey |
| spartanfan wrote: | | Every time they do I prove it was grape juice and then that ends the discussion. |
That, or they feel so bad for ya they don't want to keep piling on... |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
12/12/18 7:47 am
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| Reconciliation - COG and COGOP |
Mat |
(perhaps this is the substantive discussion we should consider)
What would it take to heal and reconcile the century old wounds (1923) of division between the COG and COGOP?
Is it God's will these two denomination (yes I know COG is much bigger, but COGOP has 10,000+ plus local churches in 130+ countries) operate two hierarchical church governments out of the same small town in Tennessee?
Can the two denominations come together as one without there being the "older brother" malice for one or the other churches and ministers?
Would COGOP ministers and members be treated as second-class step children by old time (and perhaps current) COG leadership?
In an age of more and more churches going independent, is unity and reconciliation the wrong question? Should we all be moving towards a "fellowship" of local churches and away from being hierarchical denominations?
In my lifetime and ministry, I have seen the change for the good between the two denominations. I have set in joint meetings where the leaders from both speak of Christian unity and shared history. However, after the meetings they return to status quo, they continue the work to consolidate their positions in their respective denomination. I have often felt, at least from my perspective, denomination leaders are fine taking about reconciliation as long as they keep their position and power (hence the "older-brother").
To justify the split of 1923 there is a continued commitment by both groups to the "specializes" viewpoint of their take on history. This results in each always standing ready for the other to apologize and submit before the other.
Beyond Cleveland, when the two denominations (COG and COGOP) come up in Pentecostal circles the question is often asked, "will there ever be reconciliation?"
Perhaps the individual question should be asked, is my spirit that of the "older-brother" when it comes to reconciliation?
Mat |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1994
12/12/18 8:18 am
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| Re: Reconciliation - COG and COGOP |
roughridercog |
| Mat wrote: | (perhaps this is the substantive discussion we should consider)
What would it take to heal and reconcile the century old wounds (1923) of division between the COG and COGOP?
Is it God's will these two denomination (yes I know COG is much bigger, but COGOP has 10,000+ plus local churches in 130+ countries) operate two hierarchical church governments out of the same small town in Tennessee?
Can the two denominations come together as one without there being the "older brother" malice for one or the other churches and ministers?
Would COGOP ministers and members be treated as second-class step children by old time (and perhaps current) COG leadership?
In an age of more and more churches going independent, is unity and reconciliation the wrong question? Should we all be moving towards a "fellowship" of local churches and away from being hierarchical denominations?
In my lifetime and ministry, I have seen the change for the good between the two denominations. I have set in joint meetings where the leaders from both speak of Christian unity and shared history. However, after the meetings they return to status quo, they continue the work to consolidate their positions in their respective denomination. I have often felt, at least from my perspective, denomination leaders are fine taking about reconciliation as long as they keep their position and power (hence the "older-brother").
To justify the split of 1923 there is a continued commitment by both groups to the "specializes" viewpoint of their take on history. This results in each always standing ready for the other to apologize and submit before the other.
Beyond Cleveland, when the two denominations (COG and COGOP) come up in Pentecostal circles the question is often asked, "will there ever be reconciliation?"
Perhaps the individual question should be asked, is my spirit that of the "older-brother" when it comes to reconciliation?
Mat |
My honest opinion?
The biggest obstacles will be the division of power and financial problems such as properties. Etc.
Doctrine will not be a problem. The combining of the two systems will be the biggest problem.
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Doctor of Bovinamodulation |
Acts Mod
Posts: 25305
12/12/18 8:22 am
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| Re: Reconciliation - COG and COGOP |
Mat |
| roughridercog wrote: | | Mat wrote: | (perhaps this is the substantive discussion we should consider)
What would it take to heal and reconcile the century old wounds (1923) of division between the COG and COGOP?
Is it God's will these two denomination (yes I know COG is much bigger, but COGOP has 10,000+ plus local churches in 130+ countries) operate two hierarchical church governments out of the same small town in Tennessee?
Can the two denominations come together as one without there being the "older brother" malice for one or the other churches and ministers?
Would COGOP ministers and members be treated as second-class step children by old time (and perhaps current) COG leadership?
In an age of more and more churches going independent, is unity and reconciliation the wrong question? Should we all be moving towards a "fellowship" of local churches and away from being hierarchical denominations?
In my lifetime and ministry, I have seen the change for the good between the two denominations. I have set in joint meetings where the leaders from both speak of Christian unity and shared history. However, after the meetings they return to status quo, they continue the work to consolidate their positions in their respective denomination. I have often felt, at least from my perspective, denomination leaders are fine taking about reconciliation as long as they keep their position and power (hence the "older-brother").
To justify the split of 1923 there is a continued commitment by both groups to the "specializes" viewpoint of their take on history. This results in each always standing ready for the other to apologize and submit before the other.
Beyond Cleveland, when the two denominations (COG and COGOP) come up in Pentecostal circles the question is often asked, "will there ever be reconciliation?"
Perhaps the individual question should be asked, is my spirit that of the "older-brother" when it comes to reconciliation?
Mat |
My honest opinion?
The biggest obstacles will be the division of power and financial problems such as properties. Etc.
Doctrine will not be a problem. The combining of the two systems will be the biggest problem. |
I'm willing to see my leaders (COGOP) be disbursed into the COG as pastors and staff at local churches, or some "temporary" position in state/regional/national offices to assist in the reconciliation/merger (or retired). I'll accept the COG leadership if I can keep my ordination status (Bishop) and vote without restrictions. Properties can be transferred in most cases under the "dissolution resolution" all 501 (c) (3) should have, redundant properties could be sold and the funds used for retirement of COGOP ministers as long as it last, giving a chance for active younger ministers to participate in the COG retirement program.
Other properties, such as the First Assembly House and Shearer Schoolhouse site are no problem for COG folks, you may have some issues with Fields of the Wood, but it is the location of the Holiness Church at Camp Creek and does get 10s of thousands of visitors each year (unless the Church of God wants to be known as the people who removed the largest display of the 10 Commandments).
My thinking is that the spiritual and cultural issues are the real challenge.
Mat |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1994
12/12/18 8:47 am
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Quiet Wyatt |
| My local church enjoys good fellowship with the CoGoP nearest to us. Along with one other CoG in our area, we have 5th Sunday Sings complete with fellowship meals together. The CoGoP pastor even asked me to preach one service of a revival meeting her church recently held. It was a great experience for me. When we hosted them (along with another CoG and even some from the local CoGiC) a few months back at our 5th Sunday sing, I joked from the pulpit that the CoG and CoGoP split almost a hundred years ago, but none of us were there nor remember it, and we are family, everybody laughed in agreement. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
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12/12/18 10:07 am
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Mat |
| Quiet Wyatt wrote: | | My local church enjoys good fellowship with the CoGoP nearest to us. Along with one other CoG in our area, we have 5th Sunday Sings complete with fellowship meals together. The CoGoP pastor even asked me to preach one service of a revival meeting her church recently held. It was a great experience for me. When we hosted them (along with another CoG and even some from the local CoGiC) a few months back at our 5th Sunday sing, I joked from the pulpit that the CoG and CoGoP split almost a hundred years ago, but none of us were there nor remember it, and we are family, everybody laughed in agreement. |
Generally the local level is not the problem, as is my experience not long after I became a pastor in 1979, where fellowship meetings, ministerial groups/activities and friendships were common among local churches and pastors. The separation of the two bodies is more on an institutional level. To unite, both institutions would have to come to the place were repentance for the past, forgiveness in the present and acceptance for the future took place.
I understand at one time years ago there were discussions about PHC and COG merging - not sure on what level - but the "idea" broke down when it came to traditions and positions.
Mat |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1994
12/12/18 10:38 am
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Quiet Wyatt |
| Mat wrote: | | Quiet Wyatt wrote: | | My local church enjoys good fellowship with the CoGoP nearest to us. Along with one other CoG in our area, we have 5th Sunday Sings complete with fellowship meals together. The CoGoP pastor even asked me to preach one service of a revival meeting her church recently held. It was a great experience for me. When we hosted them (along with another CoG and even some from the local CoGiC) a few months back at our 5th Sunday sing, I joked from the pulpit that the CoG and CoGoP split almost a hundred years ago, but none of us were there nor remember it, and we are family, everybody laughed in agreement. |
Generally the local level is not the problem, as is my experience not long after I became a pastor in 1979, where fellowship meetings, ministerial groups/activities and friendships were common among local churches and pastors. The separation of the two bodies is more on an institutional level. To unite, both institutions would have to come to the place were repentance for the past, forgiveness in the present and acceptance for the future took place.
I understand at one time years ago there were discussions about PHC and COG merging - not sure on what level - but the "idea" broke down when it came to traditions and positions.
Mat |
Like any institutional merger, there would necessarily be redundancies created in the process, which would have to eventually be eliminated somehow. If the CoG Intl Offices can keep overseers and bureaucrats employed in Cleveland after their term limits are up like they do, I don’t see why we couldn’t find or create a position for most of those potentially displaced by a merger. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12817
12/12/18 11:03 am
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Nature Boy Florida |
C'mon guys.
The real reason this merger will never happen - is the smaller guy (COGOP) will get dominated out of any admin positions within 10 years.
They know this.
Some guys are "family siblings" of old time COGOP power brokers and are in line to get the next Cleveland positions.
OR
Some have "paid their dues" to move up through the ranks and get the Cleveland positions.
Neither of those groups are going to cede that favored son status to let the COG dominate them. Both groups can be run by the personnel in one group. The larger group of good old boys (COG) will push the smaller out within 10 years - and now have a larger base to draw money from.
All the COGOP guys will be on the outside looking in.
They aren't stupid. They know this. It won't happen.
It is the same reason we still have a "Black" admin office in Florida. As soon as they merge - all the Cocoa guys are out within just a few years. They aren't stupid either.
It is not cynical if it is the truth.
_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16646
12/12/18 12:02 pm
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sheepdogandy |
NBF has hit the nail on the head.
It will never happen.
_________________
Charles A. Hutchins
Senior Pastor SPWC
Congregational Church of God
www.spwc.church |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 7307
12/12/18 1:09 pm
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| What if ... |
Mat |
What if reconciliation is the will of God for the two bodies (brothers)? We can see from the human perspective the reasons why it could not happen, or more correctly why some may not want it to happen. However, the question is, does the merger of the two denominations, despite the probable loss of leadership for the small and the danger of politics in the large, fulfill the Biblical imperatives of forgiveness and restoration?
We can see the why it could not happen reasoning, but is there a why it should happen? Would it be according to God's Word and a positive witness for the Kingdom?
As to leaders and their positions in both denominations - within 10 years without addressing this issue there will be a whole new slate of leaders doing the same thing over and over again. What would the reconciliation (with all its pitfalls, including reorganization, recalculation and restoration) result in for a single body that overcame a century of division?
What if the current members of the Tomlinson family in the COGOP endorsed and encouraged such a reconciliation?
Mat |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1994
12/12/18 2:33 pm
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