Actscelerate.com Forum Index Actscelerate.com
Open Any Time -- Day or Night
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
@actscelerate Twitter  @actscelerate Facebook  @actscelerate Google+ 

Wine or Welch's? Let's do this one more time
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
 
   Actscelerate.com Forum Index -> Acts-Celerate Post new topic   Reply to topic
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Message Author
Post Eddie Robbins
A Pentecostal pastor who pastors a very large church and would be huge by COG standards recently told me “everybody in my church drinks, I’ve never seen anything like it.” The culture of teetotalism among Pentecostals is changing rapidly. Rules be damned, they're doing what they want. Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16367
12/19/18 7:16 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Nature Boy Florida
Eddie Robbins wrote:
A Pentecostal pastor who pastors a very large church and would be huge by COG standards recently told me “everybody in my church drinks, I’ve never seen anything like it.” The culture of teetotalism among Pentecostals is changing rapidly. Rules be damned, they're doing what they want.


This is true. I have never seen anything like - even in COG churches.
_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today!
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16338
12/19/18 7:44 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Lips that touch wine roughridercog
Will never touch mine. Laughing
_________________
Doctor of Bovinamodulation
Acts Mod
Posts: 24924
12/19/18 8:02 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Link spartanfan
Although you write intelligently, you obviously come from a different angle than I do on the subject. We can agree to totally disagree.

However, I don't think you should have started your explanation defending FLRon in his attack on French Arrington (which was totally out of place and disrespectful of one deserving respect).

His words were "You can have the false teaching of Arrington and his ilk and go on blindly following the blind." You can't whitewash that "the false teaching of Arrington" remark. False teachers teach lies as truth. I think it would have been wiser and better for the discussion if he would have left Dr. Arrington's name out of it and just said something like "you can have your false teaching and go on being like the blind following the blind" - without mentioning the name of one of the greatest teachers to ever open the Bible in Church of God history. I think blasting the name is what got under my skin and caused me to go on the counter attack.


Obviously there are points on both sides of the issue to be made. My summary that the best- most logical and practical as well as the most biblical position in the eyes of the two largest Pentecostal denominations in the world is that of total abstinence. I have plenty of information to support that - and you counter well with your remarks. So we disagree and that's okay. But we don't need to label individuals as "false teachers" just because we disagree with them.

So don't take up for FLRon just because he lacks the ability to defend his comments. Let's agree that he could have made a wiser choice of words than, ""You can have the false teaching of Arrington and his ilk and go on blindly following the blind." He poured fuel on the fire with that! Got to go - busy day - need to find my cane and get out of here.
Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
Posts: 3628
12/19/18 9:00 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post UncleJD
Link sir, you have the patience of Job. That is a virtue even beyond teetotalism. Wink Golf Cart Mafia Capo
Posts: 2704
12/19/18 9:40 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Re: Link Dave Dorsey
spartanfan wrote:
False teachers teach lies as truth.

...right, exactly. FLRon didn't say he was a false teacher, he said this particular teaching was false, and he's exactly right because this teaching teaches a lie as truth.
Now 67% friendlier!
Posts: 12976
12/19/18 10:11 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post diakoneo
Spartanfan,
Do you believe drinking wine in any amount is sin? And if it is not sin, why would we teach abstention?
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3358
12/19/18 11:02 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Nature Boy Florida
diakoneo wrote:
Spartanfan,
Do you believe drinking wine in any amount is sin? And if it is not sin, why would we teach abstention?


See my notes on why - wisdom - looking out for our youth...who many times do not have the capacity to control consumption that old timers do.
_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today!
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16338
12/19/18 11:08 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Da Sheik
This thread has gone sideways as I knew it would. This discussion is NOT whether it’s a sin to drink any amount of alcohol. Romans 14 says we will be forever divided on this issue. One believes he may partake, and the other’s conscience will not allow. And that’s ok ! Meat and drink are disputable matters. Back to the matter at hand...Christ’s first miracle :

Clearly there was wine present at the wedding. If it were so scandalous why would Mary take it upon herself to enlist Jesus’s help in providing more?
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1693
12/19/18 11:32 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Da Sheik
Keep in mind this was Christ’s first miracle. It is doubtful she expected Him to transform water into wine....or grape juice as some here posit. Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1693
12/19/18 11:37 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Dave Dorsey
Da Sheik wrote:
One believes he may partake, and the other’s conscience will not allow. And that’s ok!

Sure, it's okay to have different convictions here. But Romans 14 makes it clear that it absolutely is sin for the weak brother to judge the stronger, or for the strong brother to offend or cause the weak to stumble through his liberty.

What we have in this thread is one dude very pointedly declaring it is not a matter of conscience or liberty and it is not disputable, and that's not okay. Dudes like that should be withstood to their faces as Paul withstood Peter.
Now 67% friendlier!
Posts: 12976
12/19/18 11:42 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post UncleJD
Nature Boy Florida wrote:
diakoneo wrote:
Spartanfan,
Do you believe drinking wine in any amount is sin? And if it is not sin, why would we teach abstention?


See my notes on why - wisdom - looking out for our youth...who many times do not have the capacity to control consumption that old timers do.


When I was raised, drinking was strictly prohibited, it was sin, it was damning (in other words, like Paul said "now my flesh wants to do it"). I believe the non scriptural teaching on drinking did more to make it seem like something cool to a rebellious teen than correct teaching on it would have done. I have tried to teach my children the Biblical view on it, and so far I believe they have a healthy understanding of its potential for abuse and don't consider it something "tempting" in the way that many in my traditional COG upbringing did.
Golf Cart Mafia Capo
Posts: 2704
12/19/18 12:02 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post diakoneo
UncleJD wrote:
Nature Boy Florida wrote:
diakoneo wrote:
Spartanfan,
Do you believe drinking wine in any amount is sin? And if it is not sin, why would we teach abstention?


See my notes on why - wisdom - looking out for our youth...who many times do not have the capacity to control consumption that old timers do.


When I was raised, drinking was strictly prohibited, it was sin, it was damning (in other words, like Paul said "now my flesh wants to do it"). I believe the non scriptural teaching on drinking did more to make it seem like something cool to a rebellious teen than correct teaching on it would have done. I have tried to teach my children the Biblical view on it, and so far I believe they have a healthy understanding of its potential for abuse and don't consider it something "tempting" in the way that many in my traditional COG upbringing did.


UncleJD:
You hit the point I was trying to make!
If we would teach correctly in our homes to start...truth and add with it our rules, we would have more legitimacy.

Apologies to Da Sheik for getting off track but I think this teaching of it being a sin would sidetrack anyone who admitted Christ's first miracle was turning water to wine...

Now we are back on track...right? Cool
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3358
12/19/18 2:34 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post krista
Although I am not willing to debate anyone over this ( Been there, done that ),without trying to be hardcore about this issue, I truly believe something, somewhere, somehow, we missed. I get it, the whole issue of Jesus and wine, but here's where I have a hard time understanding. I find it hard to believe that Jesus would in any way, endorse or encourage drinking alcohol, knowing what the results would be.
Countless millions through history who's lives would be destoyed as a result of alcohol. Our children dying and lives being destroyed. Homes destroyed because Daddy was a drinker. A Momma killed behind the wheel of a car because of alcohol.
And what makes this especially hard, is knowing some of you Ministers ( I use that term lightly) do endorse it and you partake as well.
No.......some where we missed something.
P.S. If you come back hard, you can just save it. because just as resolute as you are. So I am.
Oh........and you should be ashamed of yourselves.
Golf Cart Mafia Capo
Posts: 2950
12/19/18 2:58 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post UncleJD
krista wrote:
Although I am not willing to debate anyone over this .......and you should be ashamed of yourselves.


Hit and run
Golf Cart Mafia Capo
Posts: 2704
12/19/18 3:38 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post krista
UncleJD wrote:
krista wrote:
Although I am not willing to debate anyone over this .......and you should be ashamed of yourselves.


Hit and run


Some of you guys sit around all day just copying and pasting your plagerized arguments to prove your point, yet you never prove anything. I have yet to see on Acts, where a mind was changed. But I have seen guys like you posting all day, all the while on someone elses dime. You're nothing but a blind guide.
Hit, backup, hit again, then run. Laughing Laughing
Golf Cart Mafia Capo
Posts: 2950
12/19/18 4:05 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post UncleJD
krista wrote:
UncleJD wrote:
krista wrote:
Although I am not willing to debate anyone over this .......and you should be ashamed of yourselves.


Hit and run


Some of you guys sit around all day just copying and pasting your plagerized arguments to prove your point, yet you never prove anything. I have yet to see on Acts, where a mind was changed. But I have seen guys like you posting all day, all the while on someone elses dime. You're nothing but a blind guide.
Hit, backup, hit again, then run. Laughing Laughing


Fine debating style. And you are incorrect about cutting and pasting. Shine on.
Golf Cart Mafia Capo
Posts: 2704
12/19/18 4:27 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Hard to Believe that Jesus Would Do That FG Minister
So many of you say you cannot believe that Jesus would turn water into a wine that would be intoxicating and would cause people to get drunk and die. It is hard to believe.

So this will blow your mind for sure. Jesus also told people to pay their taxes to the Roman government (render to Caesar...). Do you know what the Roman government was using it's tax income for? That money went for all kinds of debauchery, idol worship, and Caesar-worship. Yet Jesus plainly told them to pay their taxes.

Does that mean Jesus was endorsing the filth of the Romans? Absolutely not. He is just saying you should pay your taxes and the Romans will be held accountable.

Do the same ones of you still say "I can't believe Jesus would say that?" But He did.

In the same way, Jesus turned water into wine (real wine). But he did not endorse drunkenness any more than he endorsed the sins of the Romans. But Jesus DID turn water into wine and He DID tell people to support the Roman Empire with their money. Those are the facts, whether we like them or not.
Acts-celerater
Posts: 680
12/19/18 4:36 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Da Sheik
Something else to consider: The Holy Spirit inspired the Bible. Had He wanted to ease the conscience of the weak, He could have told us that Jesus created a substance that the crowd thought was wine but was really some kind of mystical grape juice through a parenthetical statement. But instead, He inspired John to say that Jesus turned the water into ‘oinos’. So I guess some of you guys are smarter than the One who wrote it (tongue firmly in cheek).

Last edited by Da Sheik on 12/20/18 1:13 am; edited 1 time in total
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1693
12/19/18 9:01 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Cojak
Da Sheik wrote:
Something else to consider: The Holy Spirit inspired the Bible. Had He wanted to ease the conscience of the weak, He could have told us that Jesus created a substance that the crowd thought was wine but was really some kind of mystical grape juice through a parenthetical statement. But instead, He inspired Matthew to say that Jesus turned the water into ‘oinos’. So I guess some of you guys are smarter than the One who wrote it (tongue firmly in cheek).
Cool
Wish I had said that! Smile
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011
Posts: 23034
12/19/18 10:45 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Display posts from previous:   
Actscelerate.com Forum Index -> Acts-Celerate Post new topic   Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
Page 5 of 9

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Acts-celerate Terms of Use | Acts-celerate Policy
World News Network | Acts-celerate Chat
Contact the Administrator.


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group :: Spelling by SpellingCow.