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 How primitive is your Christianity? |
roughridercog |
Other than language, dress, or culture, how well would you fit into the church at Jerusalem?
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Doctor of Bovinamodulation |
Acts Mod
Posts: 25306
10/29/18 8:32 am
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| Re: How primitive is your Christianity? |
Mat |
| roughridercog wrote: | | Other than language, dress, or culture, how well would you fit into the church at Jerusalem? |
Not well. I'm a Gentile Christian and its seems the church in Jerusalem was still very Law and Temple oriented. Reading what happened in the Book of Acts, when Paul returned after his third missionary journey, many in the church were displeased that he had been among the Gentiles. They suspected he had taught against the Law and the Temple.
James required Paul to take a vow (perhaps Nazirite) which included shaving his head and going on a seven day fast at the Temple (and perhaps some blood sacrifices for cleansing). This led directly to his arrest and deportation to Rome. With his head saved he looked like an Egyptian and the Romans though he was the Egyptian who had stirred up rebellion. Egyptians were not big on hair and beards, where as the Jews were a "hairy people."
I don't think the Jerusalem Christians would allow me to "hang" with them. Messianic or not.
Mat |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1979
10/29/18 9:36 am
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Cojak |
Provocative question. If I could just 'ozmos' in I would like to know the real feelings. If I could 'remember and know as now, I am positive this would be a learning situation. I would like to hear how someone who actually KNEW the Messiah had actually came and departed, felt.
I see it akin to how my daddy and mama felt in 1918 being raised Methodist and receiving the Baptism at a Fire Baptized tent meeting and returning to the Methodist church thinking they would be 'LOVED' for this NEW FOUND revelation. They found confusion.
I imagine there was a lot of mixed emotions at that church in Jerusalem. What an eye opener I am sure if we could stand there.
This is real in my thinking just after learning a 'smidgen' of the Orthodox church that claims to be the first Christian Church.
I hope this thought catches fire. LOL I like it. 
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Posts: 24277
10/29/18 9:55 am
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UncleJD |
| Probably not well at the Church in Jerusalem for reasons stated above. I think I'd be ok at the Greek and Roman churches though. I'm sure there would be some shocks, but it would be amazing to be able to experience. I think attending some of the underground churches in China and other communist countries would be the closest thing in modern times. |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3139
10/29/18 10:13 am
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Cojak |
| UncleJD wrote: | | ... I think attending some of the underground churches in China and other communist countries would be the closest thing in modern times. |
I smiled and said AMEN when I read that. I like it when you guys say something I had not thought of at all. I would think there is a lot of truth in that statement. 
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Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
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Posts: 24277
10/29/18 11:15 am
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| I think you all might be missing the original intent in the question |
Dunamis007 |
In other words, is your church functioning like the book of acts church did? Are there miracles, signs and wonders, gifts of the spirit, healings, tongues and p er prophecies and anointed worship/praise and powerful
Teaching and preaching in your church?
I for one say yes, unashmedly. I still believe that the book of acts is a pattern for the new testament church today. You do not have to sacrifice the holy spirit and his manifestations on the altar of cultural relevance. Methods are not sacred but some principles do not change. That doesn't make us primitive it makes us scriptural. Our church is trying to manifest the Antioch church of acts 13 as a pattern. Apostolic , prophetic, training and releasing God's people to the nations and operating as a local church with an international ministry. A place of refreshing ministry leaders and being used as a base for them while allowing the Lord to add to the local church daily such as would be saved. So count us as an acts 13 church. And proud to be identified as such. Relevant to this time but in the power of His Spirit always!!! |
Member
Posts: 29
10/29/18 4:19 pm
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| Re: I think you all might be missing the original intent in the question |
Mat |
| Dunamis007 wrote: | In other words, is your church functioning like the book of acts church did? Are there miracles, signs and wonders, gifts of the spirit, healings, tongues and p er prophecies and anointed worship/praise and powerful
Teaching and preaching in your church?
I for one say yes, unashmedly. I still believe that the book of acts is a pattern for the new testament church today. You do not have to sacrifice the holy spirit and his manifestations on the altar of cultural relevance. Methods are not sacred but some principles do not change. That doesn't make us primitive it makes us scriptural. Our church is trying to manifest the Antioch church of acts 13 as a pattern. Apostolic , prophetic, training and releasing God's people to the nations and operating as a local church with an international ministry. A place of refreshing ministry leaders and being used as a base for them while allowing the Lord to add to the local church daily such as would be saved. So count us as an acts 13 church. And proud to be identified as such. Relevant to this time but in the power of His Spirit always!!! |
The church of the first century should be the template and goal of the "Last Days" church. We should be Apostolic, as in the continuance of the New Testament church. The question was about the Jerusalem church, which most likely ceased to be after the destruction of the city by Rome (70 AD). I have always felt this was God's will (Jesus prophecy) that the church not be Jerusalem centric. I see the Apostolic church on the rise around the world, and I also see that being Cleveland, Springfield or Oklahoma City centric in decline.
Mat |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1979
10/29/18 6:49 pm
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Preacher777 |
We do our best to keep our overall focus similar to the Jerusalem church concerning our aim to teach people in these areas: Sound doctrine, how to develop a continual personal prayer, study of the Word a praise/worship lifestyle, holiness and summing it up continual spiritual growth.
The Jerusalem church was relational and we also teach publicly and house to house in both announced home Bible studies and times of a relaxing dinner or cookout. Some.of the greatest teaching experiences are when a relaxed dinner or cookout leads to a couple hours or more of interactive (not didactic) Bible discussion. On a personal level I realize that when my wife and I are leading disciplined lives so as to spend a lot of personal time in prayer and the Word these discussions are a natural overflow from us. Whether sports, politics or hobbies we all know that whatever abundance we take in freely flows out. I believe our cultural adaptation is to help people adapt the Word of God to their personal lifestyles or maybe it is better to say to help people practically adapt his or her personal lifestyle to the Word of God. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 434
10/30/18 6:07 am
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| Preacher777 I like your post but |
Dunamis007 |
| I assume the Holy Spirit is the integral base of your model. That may be an erroneous assumption given the rise of the seeker model and it's desire to push the holy spirit ans his manifestations out the door of the church. Let us never do that. Come Holy Spirit we cry. Build your church. |
Member
Posts: 29
10/30/18 6:21 am
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| Re: Preacher777 I like your post but |
Mat |
| Dunamis007 wrote: | | I assume the Holy Spirit is the integral base of your model. That may be an erroneous assumption given the rise of the seeker model and it's desire to push the holy spirit ans his manifestations out the door of the church. Let us never do that. Come Holy Spirit we cry. Build your church. |
I feel as if there is a generational "spiritual" gravity which draws the grand grandchildren of spiritual pioneers back to the very place their ancestors broke free of. For the Holiness/Pentecostal Movement, that would be greatly influenced by the Methodist tradition we came out of. Perhaps for others, there is a "pull" back to the Baptist congregational tradition. In both these traditions, the manifestation of the Gifts of the Spirit were not only not welcomed, they were not taught, other than being simply a "Early Church" experience until the Bible (New Testament) was completed. Its Scofield's revenge.
I have been reading AJT's journal/diary for the years 1901 - 1924. This is a chronological full text no commentary version (from the Church of God movement Heritage Series - White Wing Publishing House). While it reports some Holy Ghost manifestations prior to AJT's Spirit Baptism, it is extraordinary what happens afterwards. I find it interesting reading, but question my willingness to live in the Spirit to that extreme. I'm afraid I might be more "comfortable" in a Methodist or Baptist church setting. Do we love the ideal of traditional church more then the reality of Spirit-filled church?
Mat |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1979
10/30/18 7:44 am
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| Re: Preacher777 I like your post but |
Preacher777 |
[quote="Dunamis007"]I assume the Holy Spirit is the integral base of your model. That may be an erroneous assumption given the rise of the seeker model and it's desire to push the holy spirit ans his manifestations out the door of the church. Let us never do that. Come Holy Spirit we cry. Build your church.[/quote]
We are totally dependent on the Holy Spirit and the Gifts of the Spirit. After 8 years pastoring the church, teaching and praying for the Gifts to be among us we are experiencing manifestations in our services. I believe and teach that it is just as or more important for us to operate in the Gifts of the Spirit outside of the church in our daily lives. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 434
10/30/18 8:22 am
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| Re: How primitive is your Christianity? |
Link |
| Mat wrote: | | roughridercog wrote: | | Other than language, dress, or culture, how well would you fit into the church at Jerusalem? |
Not well. I'm a Gentile Christian and its seems the church in Jerusalem was still very Law and Temple oriented. Reading what happened in the Book of Acts, when Paul returned after his third missionary journey, many in the church were displeased that he had been among the Gentiles. They suspected he had taught against the Law and the Temple. |
In Acts 15, there were Pharisees (literally) in the church (i.e. assembly) who wanted Gentiles to be circumcised and commanded to obey the law of Moses. The apostles and elders did not go along with that, and only had them abstain from things strangled and from blood. So I would hope Gentile believers would have been accepted. Titus was not compelled to be circumcised. They would not have been allowed in the temple.
I would imagine the rabble-rousers in the temple who beat up Paul were not Christians. Christians may have been concerned at false accusations that Paul was de-Judaising Jewish believers, but non-Nazarenes were the ones who attacked him. That's my guess.
| Quote: |
James required Paul to take a vow (perhaps Nazirite) which included shaving his head and going on a seven day fast at the Temple (and perhaps some blood sacrifices for cleansing). |
The Bible did not say that James made Paul take a vow. James said there were men that had a vow on them. Paul was to pay their expenses. The details do seem like the Nazarite vow, if the men hadn't kept it right. It could have been the temple authorities built a 'hedge around the Torah' and just required the sacrifices either way. Someone would have made money off of that, or at least food, if they added an extra requirement.
Paul might have already been under a Nazarite vow because the Bible says he had shaved his head in Cenchrea, for he had made a vow. So he may have chopped off the unconsecrated hair on his head so as not to be encombered with extra hair when he left it in the temple.
I wouldn't think James would have had Paul make such vows since he was aware of and repeated the teaching of Christ, 'Swear not at all' and even prefaced his version of the command in his epistle with ''..above all things....' That's assuming James was written by the Lord's brother and not the son of Zebedee or the son of Alphaeus.
| Quote: | | This led directly to his arrest and deportation to Rome. With his head saved he looked like an Egyptian and the Romans though he was the Egyptian who had stirred up rebellion. Egyptians were not big on hair and beards, where as the Jews were a "hairy people." |
I have wondered about that. I know the ancient Egyptians liked to shave off a lot of their hair, some of them going around bald. But I do not know if they did that after the Ptolemy dynasty got started and particularly in the first century. I have tried to look it up. I just got the idea to look up on Google to see if Cleopatra was bald. One wordpress site that had a goofy looking picture on it said she was, but that doesn't seem reliable.
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Acts-perienced Poster
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10/30/18 3:44 pm
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