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Does God Accept Worship From the Unsaved?

 
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Post Does God Accept Worship From the Unsaved? Aaron Scott
At a recent Brooklyn Tabernacle Choir concert, I saw two women who, at least from the outward appearance, looked to be lesbians. And yet here they were.

I got to thinking....

When Mary washed Jesus' feet, Jesus admitted that "her sins are many," and yet He accepted her worship.

When Jesus was entering Jerusalem, He said that if people held their peace, the rocks would immediately cry out. Well, rocks aren't saved, but apparently it would have mattered in heaven.

The wisemen were, so far as we know, not Jews. For all we know, they may even have had some very messed up doctrine. And yet they are considered sincere and worshipful.

What about when someone comes to your church and, even if they are a drug addict or alcoholic, raises their hands in the worship service?

Or what about a couple living in sin who do worship?

We all agree, I imagine, about not considering such a person for a ministry or leadership position. But how do you feel about them worshiping?

Do you think God accepts it?

Do you think God appreciates it?

And if not, how do we address that? (Or should we?)

Just some questions....
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9/10/18 12:24 pm


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Post FLRon
I've been wondering about this same thing lately. We have at least two couples in our church who are living together and are not married. A couple of weeks ago all four of them partook of communion. I'd personally be afraid to do such a thing,but they didn't seem the least bit apprehensive about it. I am troubled about it actually.
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Post lodestar
FLRon wrote:
I've been wondering about this same thing lately. We have at least two couples in our church who are living together and are not married. A couple of weeks ago all four of them partook of communion. I'd personally be afraid to do such a thing,but they didn't seem the least bit apprehensive about it. I am troubled about it actually.

Yikes. Shouldn't your pastor be guarding the table from people in open, unrepentant sin?
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Post FLRon.... Aaron Scott
There are children that raise their hand if I ask if anyone "got saved," or the such. Now, I could act like I know their hearts...and perhaps do incredible damage. Or I can--as we want other to do--proceed in faith.

Remember when Phillip baptized the eunuch? He didn't go through a checklist of things about whether he had REALLY repented...whether he REALLY understood the gospel, etc. In fact, it might be that if we had put the eunuch through some of the hoops we've developed over time, he might never have gotten baptized.

Now, indeed, if someone is living in open sin, that's an issue. But there are some things that need to be considered....

1) Does that couple understand that it is sinful to do so? It has become such an accepted part of the world AND THE CHURCH, that it doesn't sent waves of guilt over people like it used to.

2) Are the sleeping together? Yes, we all know that they shouldn't even be in the same house. But I was recently reading about a couple living together that came to Brooklyn Tabernacle and got saved. He started sleeping on the couch. Not perfect, I know. But it should be considered. It's not always possible to just move out and land on your feet somewhere else until marriage. I mean, EVEN PASTORS often are unable to just up and leave a church due to the financial considerations.

3) Give God time. Unlike you and I (SMILE), not everyone who comes to Jesus is instantly perfected! While you and I may grimace over the terrible sin of fornication, God might start with their bad language first. We prioritize differently.

HOWEVER...at the end of all of this is the truth that, while sinners may worship God because of the love and joy we feel in his presence, they are not to remain in sin. Just as Jesus forgave Mary when she worshiped (and we have no record of her asking Him to forgive her sins!), so, too, worship does something to the heart of Jesus. He will forgive when we worship (just as he forgives when he heals)...but we dare not think it is His permission to continue in sin.

I don't know if you are a pastor or not, but either way, it's a hard conversation to have. We don't want to hurt people...we don't want to come across as judgmental (that's been drilled into us for years now)...and we don't want to run them off. So we are often reluctant. But the Lord has a way of convicting them...and readying them for a sweet conversation about "Your next step in living for Jesus."

Just my thoughts. I'm not basing any doctrine on them. I just know that I minister to some rough around the edges folks, and I have to take that into consideration, since they didn't get raised in church.
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9/10/18 6:47 pm


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Post philunderwood
lodestar wrote:
FLRon wrote:
I've been wondering about this same thing lately. We have at least two couples in our church who are living together and are not married. A couple of weeks ago all four of them partook of communion. I'd personally be afraid to do such a thing,but they didn't seem the least bit apprehensive about it. I am troubled about it actually.

Yikes. Shouldn't your pastor be guarding the table from people in open, unrepentant sin?


The table is not in jeopardy. What is in jeopardy is their everyday life. I would never restrict anyone from the table. I am not the judge but I am the keeper of the message and we make it clear that the table is a place to observe and respond to covenant. It is not a talisman ceremony, but a sacred moment of worship - saying "You made me worthy of this table as there was no way I could have approached on my own righteousness. It is here I call myself out and judge those things I am aware of in my life that are not ordained by God or that give Him glory. If I cannot say I am wrong and willing to enter the space of repentance, I will choose to not treat the Table as anything less than holy, and itself a calling to holiness.
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9/10/18 7:35 pm


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Post lodestar
Phil, I would agree with that in this case. I would disagree in the case of members of the community who are under formal discipline.

Nevertheless -- no determination is possible with the info we have thus far, but I am curious if the importance of the table, and the severity of eating in an unworthy manner, was explained.
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9/10/18 7:49 pm


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Post FLRon
lodestar wrote:
FLRon wrote:
I've been wondering about this same thing lately. We have at least two couples in our church who are living together and are not married. A couple of weeks ago all four of them partook of communion. I'd personally be afraid to do such a thing,but they didn't seem the least bit apprehensive about it. I am troubled about it actually.

Yikes. Shouldn't your pastor be guarding the table from people in open, unrepentant sin?


I have not had the opportunity to discuss this with my pastor, but fully intend to do so. If in fact the unmarried couple who are living as though they were married have been instructed in the ways of Godly living(and I have every reason to believe they have been), this places me in a quandary when it comes to serving them communion.

On one hand, I feel like an accomplice or contributor in wrong doing. On the other hand would it turn them away from the church if they were not offered the opportunity to partake of communion? I cannot possibly know their hearts, yet feel as though I am passing judgement on them.
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Post Re: FLRon.... FLRon
Aaron Scott wrote:
There are children that raise their hand if I ask if anyone "got saved," or the such. Now, I could act like I know their hearts...and perhaps do incredible damage. Or I can--as we want other to do--proceed in faith.

Remember when Phillip baptized the eunuch? He didn't go through a checklist of things about whether he had REALLY repented...whether he REALLY understood the gospel, etc. In fact, it might be that if we had put the eunuch through some of the hoops we've developed over time, he might never have gotten baptized.

Now, indeed, if someone is living in open sin, that's an issue. But there are some things that need to be considered....

1) Does that couple understand that it is sinful to do so? It has become such an accepted part of the world AND THE CHURCH, that it doesn't sent waves of guilt over people like it used to.

2) Are the sleeping together? Yes, we all know that they shouldn't even be in the same house. But I was recently reading about a couple living together that came to Brooklyn Tabernacle and got saved. He started sleeping on the couch. Not perfect, I know. But it should be considered. It's not always possible to just move out and land on your feet somewhere else until marriage. I mean, EVEN PASTORS often are unable to just up and leave a church due to the financial considerations.

3) Give God time. Unlike you and I (SMILE), not everyone who comes to Jesus is instantly perfected! While you and I may grimace over the terrible sin of fornication, God might start with their bad language first. We prioritize differently.

HOWEVER...at the end of all of this is the truth that, while sinners may worship God because of the love and joy we feel in his presence, they are not to remain in sin. Just as Jesus forgave Mary when she worshiped (and we have no record of her asking Him to forgive her sins!), so, too, worship does something to the heart of Jesus. He will forgive when we worship (just as he forgives when he heals)...but we dare not think it is His permission to continue in sin.

I don't know if you are a pastor or not, but either way, it's a hard conversation to have. We don't want to hurt people...we don't want to come across as judgmental (that's been drilled into us for years now)...and we don't want to run them off. So we are often reluctant. But the Lord has a way of convicting them...and readying them for a sweet conversation about "Your next step in living for Jesus."

Just my thoughts. I'm not basing any doctrine on them. I just know that I minister to some rough around the edges folks, and I have to take that into consideration, since they didn't get raised in church.


Well, that is a wry hard conversation to have, and since I am not a pastor it is not my responsibility to have such a conversation with them in an “official capacity”. I would gladly do so if I were asked, but will not overstep my bounds in the matter.

And I’m on board with how you state that the Lord has a way of reaching those who were not raised in church. Thinking of myself, I was not raised in church and knew nothing about it when I first came to faith in Christ. I sort of remember my first pastor conducting a serious lesson on how our hearts must be pure before we partake of the Lords Supper, and ever since then I’ve been more on the strict side of the issue. I just want to do what is right in the Lords eyes.
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9/10/18 8:44 pm


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Post FLRon
philunderwood wrote:
lodestar wrote:
FLRon wrote:
I've been wondering about this same thing lately. We have at least two couples in our church who are living together and are not married. A couple of weeks ago all four of them partook of communion. I'd personally be afraid to do such a thing,but they didn't seem the least bit apprehensive about it. I am troubled about it actually.

Yikes. Shouldn't your pastor be guarding the table from people in open, unrepentant sin?


The table is not in jeopardy. What is in jeopardy is their everyday life. I would never restrict anyone from the table. I am not the judge but I am the keeper of the message and we make it clear that the table is a place to observe and respond to covenant. It is not a talisman ceremony, but a sacred moment of worship - saying "You made me worthy of this table as there was no way I could have approached on my own righteousness. It is here I call myself out and judge those things I am aware of in my life that are not ordained by God or that give Him glory. If I cannot say I am wrong and willing to enter the space of repentance, I will choose to not treat the Table as anything less than holy, and itself a calling to holiness.


I like your take on this Phil. The only thing I would call to question is the issue of blatant unwillingness to acknowledge the sin in my life. For example, if I have been taught that living together as a married person while remaining unmarried is sin, and I choose to disagree with the clear teachings of scripture, that does not make my choice free of sin. I am guilty, but don’t agree that I am. I believe in that situation the person should not partake of communion.
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9/10/18 8:51 pm


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Post philunderwood
None of us should come to the table in disregard of our sin. It should be acknowledged to God, confessed as sin and forgiveness asked, followed by the fruit of repentance.
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Post lodestar
FLRon wrote:
On the other hand would it turn them away from the church if they were not offered the opportunity to partake of communion?

Maybe so, but is this an act of mercy and love when the alternative is them drinking damnation to themselves?

I agree that this is a difficult situation all the way around. It is easy to discuss theologically, but when it comes to the nuts and bolts of keeping someone who wants to receive communion from doing so it is not so easy.

That said I do think denying access to the table is an important part of the church community's collective witness against the professing believer who is persisting in sin. Easier said than done I know. I do not envy you or your pastor in this situation.
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Post Preacher777
I would have a problem with somebody coming up front for communion who was raised in the church, accepted Christ, had many years of sound Biblical teaching and then decided to live together anyway. Friendly Face
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9/11/18 7:17 am


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Post buttrfli24
Sometimes I read things and I just don't know what to think/say. Everyone all up in arms about whether or not these people should take communion... whether or not sinners worship is accepted... Isn't that for God to decide?

Preach the truth. Love the unlovable. Let God sort goats and sheep.
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Post lodestar
buttrfli24 wrote:
Sometimes I read things and I just don't know what to think/say. Everyone all up in arms about whether or not these people should take communion... whether or not sinners worship is accepted... Isn't that for God to decide?

No one's up in arms? The Bible contains instructions and warnings about this type of thing and this discussion seems to be an effort to examine what that means in practice.

Scripture has not really afforded ministers the privilege to just throw their hands up and permit whatever, leaving the details for God to sort out.
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Post Cojak
lodestar wrote:
FLRon wrote:
I've been wondering about this same thing lately. We have at least two couples in our church who are living together and are not married. A couple of weeks ago all four of them partook of communion. I'd personally be afraid to do such a thing,but they didn't seem the least bit apprehensive about it. I am troubled about it actually.

Yikes. Shouldn't your pastor be guarding the table from people in open, unrepentant sin?


I am not sure, and of course I am no scholar, but each person must search their hearts as they partake. Confused
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Post Cojak
buttrfli24 wrote:
Sometimes I read things and I just don't know what to think/say. Everyone all up in arms about whether or not these people should take communion... whether or not sinners worship is accepted... Isn't that for God to decide?

Preach the truth. Love the unlovable. Let God sort goats and sheep.


My mind says YES, to this comment. This salvation is a personal thing. One between me (us) and God. I think this when I partake.

I have never seen any pastor reaching out to bar or stop ANYONE from partaking, and that includes the very conservative '50s..

Has any pastor here ever frobid anyone from participating in the Lord's Supper?
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Post Quiet Wyatt
I have always gone with an “open communion” approach. I say, “If you consider yourself a follower of Jesus Christ, you are welcome to partake with us.” I also make the call to examine ourselves as we show forth and proclaim His death until he comes, to ask God to search us, and the importance of all sin being confessed (saying the same thing God says about it) prior to partaking of the Lord’s supper, else we eat and drink damnation to our souls, as 1 Cor 11:27-32 indicates:

27Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord. 28But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly. 30For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep. 31But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged. 32But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world. NASB

In this way, I believe it even has an evangelistic and sanctifying effect upon those who partake in it.

I honestly am not sure if the CoG has an official stance with regard to who can and who cannot participate in communion with us. I know in the AG, from which most of my background is, we always practiced open communion, meaning you did not have to be a member of the church in order to participate.
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Post Cojak
Quiet Wyatt wrote:
I have always gone with an “open communion” approach. I say, “If you consider yourself a follower of Jesus Christ, you are welcome to partake with us.” I also make the call to examine ourselves as we show forth and proclaim His death until he comes, to ask God to search us, and the importance of all sin being confessed (saying the same thing God says about it) prior to partaking of the Lord’s supper, else we eat and drink damnation to our souls, as 1 Cor 11:27-32 indicates:

27Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord. 28But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly. 30For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep. 31But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged. 32But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world. NASB

In this way, I believe it even has an evangelistic and sanctifying effect upon those who partake in it.

I honestly am not sure if the CoG has an official stance with regard to who can and who cannot participate in communion with us. I know in the AG, from which most of my background is, we always practiced open communion, meaning you did not have to be a member of the church in order to participate.


Thanks QW, I do agree with that approach. Cool Idea
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Post Preacher777
[quote="Quiet Wyatt"]I have always gone with an “open communion” approach. I say, “If you consider yourself a follower of Jesus Christ, you are welcome to partake with us.” I also make the call to examine ourselves as we show forth and proclaim His death until he comes, to ask God to search us, and the importance of all sin being confessed (saying the same thing God says about it) prior to partaking of the Lord’s supper, else we eat and drink damnation to our souls, as 1 Cor 11:27-32 indicates:

27Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord. 28But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly. 30For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep. 31But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged. 32But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world. NASB

In this way, I believe it even has an evangelistic and sanctifying effect upon those who partake in it.

I honestly am not sure if the CoG has an official stance with regard to who can and who cannot participate in communion with us. I know in the AG, from which most of my background is, we always practiced open communion, meaning you did not have to be a member of the church in order to participate.[/quote]

Great summary Wyatt and I agree. I responded "I would have a problem with somebody coming up front for communion who was raised in the church, accepted Christ, had many years of sound Biblical teaching and then decided to live together anyway" in my earlier post.

I did not mean I would stop them in front of everybody but that I would want to meet with a person privately (if a woman with my wife) in the situation I mention.

My goal as a pastor is to see people saved and grow in his or her knowledge of the truth (discipleship). I would be bothered and want to explore many questions in the circumstance I mentioned:

-Is my preaching and our chuch service so lacking in the anointing (or a false feel good that passes for the anointing) that people have no conviction of sin due to a lack of anointing on the preached/taught Word?

-Has this person been deceived by false grace teaching and is uunaware of what Hebrews 8 on describes as a better covenant with more responsibility and a higher price for sin? Has this person understood the New Covenant teaching about the dangers for those who ignore the blood of Christ and consider it an unworthy thing?

-How does this lifestyle and disregard for sin/repentance fit into the believers goal of sanctification and going from faith to faith and glory to glory?

-How would this person feel if Jesus returned tonight while he or she was living in sin?

-Has this peson thought about the responsibility of every believer to lead others to Christ instead of setting a sinful role model up for the children and teens?

I could go on but am limited for time. Summing thngs up, with the breakdown of the family structure and sin in society I believe we desperately need personal discipleship with people we know on a regular basis.


Last edited by Preacher777 on 9/12/18 11:01 am; edited 2 times in total
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9/12/18 8:05 am


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Post diakoneo
Define worship.

Don't you believe there is a difference between praise and worship? Especially since Christ declared that "true worshippers must worship in spirit and in truth."

In regards to praise He speaks of God "perfecting praise"...rocks, babes, suckling infants... everything that has breath...I WILL praise the Lord.

Thanks for getting me thinking!
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