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 McCain and the POW Cover-Up |
dtgrant |
The “war hero†candidate buried information about POWs left behind in Vietnam. By Sydney Schanberg
"The pressure from the families and Vietnam veterans finally forced the creation, in late 1991, of a Senate Select Committee on POW/MIA Affairs. The chairman was John Kerry. McCain, as a former POW, was its most pivotal member. In the end, the committee became part of the debunking machine."
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/mccain-and-the-pow-cover-up/ |
Friendly Face
Posts: 236
9/3/18 8:40 am
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FLRon |
I in no way would ever denigrate any soldier who was a POW. These men endured unspeakable horrors at the hands of their captors, on this we can all agree. My own father who served in the Navy endured much pain at the hands of the Japanese in WWII,so I can empathize with anyone held captive by the enemy.
That being said, John McCain was no war hero,nor should he be idolized as such. He himself acknowledged that he received preferential treatment because of his family heritage. That is not a hero. No hero accepts special treatment from his captors.
So desperate is the American public for a hero that they blindly accepted the fabrication of lies and half truths about McCain. I'm old enough to remember how this so called hero treated the families of POW's that dared ask for their country to do more to find their loved ones,and I was paying attention to his harsh demeanor towards them. I said it then and I'll say it again: that man was hiding something.
He may have taken his secrets to the grave,but one day those things will be brought to the light.
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“Hell will be filled with people that didn’t cuss, didn’t drink, and may even have been baptized. Why? Because none of those things makes someone a Christian.”
Voddie Baucham |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 769
9/4/18 9:54 am
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Dave Dorsey |
| FLRon wrote: | | He himself acknowledged that he received preferential treatment because of his family heritage. |
Citation for this? He was offered preferential treatment, but specifically refused it and was severely tortured as a result.
McCain's not the best dude for a lot of reasons -- starting with his treatment of his first wife upon his return from Vietnam. But the statement you have made, to the best of my knowledge, is false. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
9/4/18 10:59 am
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dtgrant |
| Dave Dorsey wrote: | | FLRon wrote: | | He himself acknowledged that he received preferential treatment because of his family heritage. |
Citation for this? He was offered preferential treatment, but specifically refused it and was severely tortured as a result.
McCain's not the best dude for a lot of reasons -- starting with his treatment of his first wife upon his return from Vietnam. But the statement you have made, to the best of my knowledge, is false. |
The purpose of this post was not to condemn McCain for his activities as a POW. The purpose is to point out McCains betrayel of the Pow / MIA left behind in Vietnam.
With that said , the above linked article states McCain , in his autobiography , admitted to preferential treatment.
Quote: "In his bestselling 1999 autobiography, Faith of My Fathers, McCain says he felt bad throughout his captivity because he knew he was being treated more leniently than his fellow POWs, owing to his high-ranking father and thus his propaganda value. Other prisoners at Hoa Lo say his captors considered him a prize catch and called him the “Crown Prince,†something McCain acknowledges in the book." |
Friendly Face
Posts: 236
9/4/18 11:52 am
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Dave Dorsey |
| What was he supposed to do, ask for harsher treatment? He was still brutally tortured and he took advantage of every opportunity to confound his captors and interfere with their mistreatment of others. He also refused to leave until everyone else was free, even though he could have, choosing instead to stay and be tortured more. This is about as lame a criticism as one could make and it detracts from the very legitimate things for which McCain can and should be criticized. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
9/4/18 12:23 pm
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dtgrant |
| Quote: | | This is about as lame a criticism as one could make and it detracts from the very legitimate things for which McCain can and should be criticized. |
Not lame criticism. Merely corrected your previous inaccurate statement on McCain's preferential treatment.
Now, again, the initial post points out how Senator McCain betrayed POW / MIA in the U.S. Senate. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 236
9/4/18 4:06 pm
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Dave Dorsey |
| dtgrant wrote: | | Not lame criticism. Merely corrected your previous inaccurate statement on McCain's preferential treatment. |
No, you didn't "correct" my statement by doubling down on your false claim that McCain enjoyed preferential treatment in any way he could control. In fact, McCain took every possible opportunity to reject preferential treatment up to and including staying with his fellow captors and being tortured for 5.5 years past the point when his captors wanted to preferentially send him home, two of which he spent in solitary confinement.
If you want to dislike McCain, fine. I wasn't a fan of his either. But don't spread lies. He willingly endured additional years of captivity and torture when he had the option to avoid it. You are completing distorting the quote you shared above.
Last edited by Dave Dorsey on 9/4/18 4:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
9/4/18 4:07 pm
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UncleJD |
| Not sure what to believe about McCain's service and captivity so I just say "thank him for his service" and move to his political legacy, which I'm less thankful for to say the least. |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3138
9/4/18 4:17 pm
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Dave Dorsey |
| UncleJD wrote: | | Not sure what to believe about McCain's service and captivity so I just say "thank him for his service" and move to his political legacy, which I'm less thankful for to say the least. |
Seems like a good course of action. And regarding the political legacy, same here. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
9/4/18 4:18 pm
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dtgrant |
| Dave Dorsey wrote: | | But don't spread lies. |
Your accusation is 100% false. Have not spread any lies. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 236
9/4/18 4:54 pm
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Dave Dorsey |
| dtgrant wrote: | | Your accusation is 100% false. Have not spread any lies. |
I'll give this one more go, then I'm not going to spend any more time arguing with a guy behind a keyboard who wants to denigrate a dude who couldn't lift his arms above his shoulders because of what he chose to suffer.
A little under a year after McCain was captured, his dad became the commander of all US forces in Vietnam. The North Vietnamese offered him early release. He refused to be released until everyone who was captured before him was released, in accordance with Article III of the US Fighting Force Code of Conduct. As a result of this rejection, McCain was subjected to brutal torture, and eventually made a coerced confession, as many POWs do. He refused to sign any statements after the first, however, and was beaten several times weekly as a result. He was finally released in 1974, four years after refusing early release.
He suffered unimaginable brutality at the hands of the North Vietnamese, and he did so as a result of his own decision to stay there. Despite that, he was aware at times that he was treated less severely than others because of whose son he was, and that racked him with guilt on top of everything else. At no point did he choose or willingly accept preferential treatment, as FLRon stated. FLRon's a good guy, so I assume that was just a mistake on his part. I likewise assume your commitment to that statement is an honest mistake on your part.
Have a nice evening. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
9/4/18 5:05 pm
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dtgrant |
quote Dave Dorsey: "I'll give this one more go, then I'm not going to spend any more time arguing with a guy behind a keyboard who wants to denigrate a dude who couldn't lift his arms above his shoulders because of what he chose to suffer. "
From previous post in this thread:
quote dtgrant: "The purpose of this post was not to condemn McCain for his activities as a POW. The purpose is to point out McCains betrayel of the Pow / MIA left behind in Vietnam."
quote Dave Dorsey: "Despite that, he was aware at times that he was treated less severely than others because of whose son he was ... "
We agree, that statement is correct.
Your accusation that we 'spread lies' is still a 100% false accusation. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 236
9/4/18 6:21 pm
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SouthFloridaman |
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Cojak |
I served in the USMC, USAF and the USN. I would not feel 'worthy' to shine the shoes of ANY POW. I have known POWs from WWII and Nam. I consider them Heroes, much above most folk I have known. I don't have to like their decisions before or political decisions afterwards. They swore to follow orders and go where this country sent them. Most did. The POW deserves RESPECT because he followed orders and did what he swore to do, things did not go as planned.
I only went thru POW training, and I sure would not want to do the real thing. It just hurts my inner man to see someone who has faced nothing like that to degrade one who has SPENT TIME IN HELL (one /earth)!
McCain was buried with honor, he deserved it. 
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Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011
Posts: 24277
9/4/18 9:51 pm
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| Just one of the reasons why |
Rafael D Martinez |
Actscelerate isn't worth my time any more.
You can dump on whoever you want and hide your hypocrisy behind a screen name .. and this post epitomizes that.
McCain is a war hero. I served on the ship he almost was killed on and after getting first aid for his injury he actually helped fight fires and save the ship.
When this kind of stuff is allowed to stand, it shows how far Acts has sunk. But COG Execs and preachers can be routinely shelled by the brave Christians who flex their muscles behind pennames.
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Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth? Galatians 4:16
These are trying times. Everyone's trying something and getting caught. The Church Lady, 1987 |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 7766
9/11/18 9:50 am
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Nature Boy Florida |
Cojak and Raf are right.
Don't use pen names to attack other guys.
McCain served with honor in Jacksonville for 12 years - 5 of them in the Hanoi Hilton. He might not have made the same choices as I would have as a politician later - but this stuff questioning his actions in the military is revisionist history.
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Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16619
9/11/18 10:03 am
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| Re: Just one of the reasons why |
dtgrant |
| Rafael D Martinez wrote: | Actscelerate isn't worth my time any more.
You can dump on whoever you want and hide your hypocrisy behind a screen name .. and this post epitomizes that.
McCain is a war hero. I served on the ship he almost was killed on and after getting first aid for his injury he actually helped fight fires and save the ship.
When this kind of stuff is allowed to stand, it shows how far Acts has sunk. But COG Execs and preachers can be routinely shelled by the brave Christians who flex their muscles behind pennames. |
Since we originated this post we will correct your comments --
(1) Donnie & Terri Grant (husband and wife) are our real names.
(2) Donnie - Terri Grant is our Facebook name.
(3) Our name on Acts-Celerate is our initials and last name -- dtgrant
(4) You could have asked before falsely claiming we are using a pen name.
Now, we disagree with your opinion that having a discussion on the activities of a U.S. Senator is 'dumping' on said U.S. Senator.
We will repeat again our comment earlier concerning this post:
quote dtgrant: "The purpose of this post was not to condemn McCain for his activities as a POW. The purpose is to point out McCain's betrayal of the Pow / MIA left behind in Vietnam."
Many veterans believe that Senator John McCain's activities on the Senate Select Committee on POW/MIA Affairs, in existence from August 2, 1991 to January 2, 1993, were a betrayal to Vietnam POW/MIA and their families.
Apparently, we have become your enemy by merely exposing you to the truth -- not all veterans share your opinion about all things concerning Senator John McCain. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 236
9/11/18 9:41 pm
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Cojak |
I personally know NO vets who consider McCain NOT a hero. Political decisions do NOT change the fact the man served his country. Of course I cannot know all vets. BUT the only ones I know personally that degrade the man are younger men who have not served their country.
I do not doubt many POWs/vets have made some bad decisions. I don't know about McCain, I do know I did not agree with all his stands. I did feel disappointed that he used his position to shoot holes in the presidents agenda, but I did understand it from a human standpoint, I had hoped he would have been above that. BUT he is still a hero.
In reading the article it seemed the author had an ax to grind and a lot of personal opinions of actions of others.
The man is buried, he was a hero. To try to degrade that is a shame. Now that too is an opinion. And I claim a right to mine.
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011
Posts: 24277
9/11/18 11:17 pm
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| Re: Just one of the reasons why |
Dave Dorsey |
Quit this pretentious plural nonsense.
| dtgrant wrote: | | Many veterans believe that Senator John McCain's activities on the Senate Select Committee on POW/MIA Affairs, in existence from August 2, 1991 to January 2, 1993, were a betrayal to Vietnam POW/MIA and their families. |
Citation needed. You provided a single article with one writer's view on the issue. Justify your claim that "many" veterans believe this.
| dtgrant wrote: | | Apparently, we have become your enemy by merely exposing you to the truth -- not all veterans share your opinion about all things concerning Senator John McCain. |
Are you a veteran? |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
9/12/18 4:50 am
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Dave Dorsey |
| Cojak wrote: | | To try to degrade that is a shame. Now that too is an opinion. And I claim a right to mine. |
Your opinion is spot on, Cojak. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
9/12/18 4:51 am
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