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 Uncomfortable verse |
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Luke 14:33
"So then, none of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions.
(NASB)
How do you interpret and apply it today?
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Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11849
6/4/18 6:56 am
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Patrick Harris |
It takes away the choices we have as Christians in what we hold on to.
Our time is not ours alone
Our finances are not ours alone
Our families are no longer ours alone
As one pastor said, "We hold on to our possessions loosely so that we aren't held back from letting things go"
When we choose to follow Christ we give up our rights to hold back anything from him.
The ESV says "does not renounce all that he has" which I think is a more appropriate way of reflecting the verse. When a decision must be made between Christ or an alternative, for those of us that are disciples that decision has already be made. It must be Christ. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1323
6/4/18 7:55 am
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Dave Dorsey |
| Patrick... great stuff! |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
6/4/18 8:33 am
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Quiet Wyatt |
Our Lord’s command to forsake or renounce all that one has echoes His instruction in the Sermon on the Mount:
Matthew 6:19“Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20“But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys, and where thieves do not break in or steal; 21for where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
    22“The eye is the lamp of the body; so then if your eye is clear, your whole body will be full of light. 23“But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light that is in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!
    24“No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth. NASB
This plain teaching of the Messiah concerning wealth is likewise reiterated by Paul the Apostle (all NASB):
1 Timothy 6:3If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness, 4he is conceited and understands nothing; but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions, 5and constant friction between men of depraved mind and deprived of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. 6But godliness actually is a means of great gain when accompanied by contentment. 7For we have brought nothing into the world, so we cannot take anything out of it either. 8If we have food and covering, with these we shall be content. 9But those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a snare and many foolish and harmful desires which plunge men into ruin and destruction. 10For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil, and some by longing for it have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.
      1 Tim 6:17Instruct those who are rich in this present world not to be conceited or to fix their hope on the uncertainty of riches, but on God, who richly supplies us with all things to enjoy. 18Instruct them to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share, 19storing up for themselves the treasure of a good foundation for the future, so that they may take hold of that which is life indeed.
Paul also mentions in 1 Corinthians 11:22 the fact that believers there had their own houses to eat and drink in, and that those who had should not shame those who had nothing by eating and drinking greedily in the church fellowship meal and leaving the poor of the church with nothing to eat. So then it does not follow that the early church observed total voluntary poverty as a condition of discipleship. They did give unselfishly, generously and sacrificially in Acts 2 and in Acts 4, especially when urgent circumstances warranted it, and they did appear to operate with a mentality of “What’s mine is thine,†but ongoing perpetual voluntary poverty was not true even then, and certainly was not true of the churches Paul corresponded with, based on what inspired writings we have of his.
So, all things considered, the plain emphasis of the New Testament is for followers of Christ to be generous, to help the poor, to never allow greed to rule their life, and to always keep in mind that the treasures one stores up should be in Heaven, not on earth. Somebody really should inform Copeland, Duplantis, Meyer and Co. They apparently haven’t read their Bibles very carefully. It appears that their reading comprehension has been severely retarded.
Last edited by Quiet Wyatt on 6/4/18 10:03 am; edited 2 times in total |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12801
6/4/18 9:15 am
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Quiet Wyatt |
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Posts: 12801
6/4/18 9:17 am
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MoonWalkingWithJesus |
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Friendly Face
Posts: 141
6/4/18 1:49 pm
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Quiet Wyatt,
I suspect that there was a variety of 'radicalness' among early Christians regarding to the degree to which they divested themselves of their possessions. Barnabas on the one hand, and Ananias and Saphira, on the other, show a contrast in Acts on attitudes toward giving.
Jesus talked about forsaking all you own to be His disciple. He told the rich young ruler to sell his possessions and give to the poor. Then Luke said the church had all things in common and did not consider their possessions to be their own. Then Paul told the rich to be generous.
Do we take Jesus' statement quoted in the OP to be 'hyperbole'? The passage talks about hating father and mother. Is it spiritual language that speaks of forsaking possessions 'in the heart', but still using them and gaining personal benefit from them. We could say the rich young ruler passage was just for him in particular. Or are these interpretations just to convenient.
I suspect the proper interpretation and application is more radical than what is acceptable in your typical American evangelical church.
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Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11849
6/4/18 9:16 pm
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Da Sheik |
| Link wrote: |
I suspect the proper interpretation and application is more radical than what is acceptable in your typical American evangelical church. |
So are you suggesting the “proper†interpretation is a wooden, literal call for all disciples of Christ to divest themselves of every asset ? |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1860
6/4/18 9:25 pm
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Cojak |
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Nature Boy Florida |
| Da Sheik wrote: | | Link wrote: |
I suspect the proper interpretation and application is more radical than what is acceptable in your typical American evangelical church. |
So are you suggesting the “proper†interpretation is a wooden, literal call for all disciples of Christ to divest themselves of every asset ? |
that would be radical.
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Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16627
6/5/18 7:52 am
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