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 Qualified Leadership |
cogcia |
| For years our leadership was successful pastors. Now much of of leadership is nepotism. Many AB’s and YD’s have never successfully pastored, but are telling pastors how to do a job they have never done themselves. They can tell you who they are connected to politically, who dad or father in law is, but can’t really tell you how to grow a church or reach a community. A lower level of leadership will not produce a healthier denomination. We are raising a generation of professionals church politicians that is more concerned about the system, than the Ministry. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 122
5/7/18 3:38 pm
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SouthFloridaman |
| This could not have been said it better. If you only knew to level it is going... |
Friendly Face
Posts: 358
5/9/18 12:54 pm
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Nature Boy Florida |
Don't you want your mediocre guys in admin positions?
The guys that get it done as pastors - the last thing we need is to get them out of the field. Let them write books - give a seminar every now and then of how it is done - but please do not take them out of the field.
The guys that get it done as missionaries - the last thing we need is to get them out of the field.
Leave it to the guys that can't get it done to work the office.
However - one thing they need: They do need the skill of getting the right people to the right place and getting them all the resources they need.
_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16619
5/9/18 12:58 pm
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SouthFloridaman |
| Nature Boy Florida wrote: | Don't you want your mediocre guys in admin positions?
The guys that get it done as pastors - the last thing we need is to get them out of the field. Let them write books - give a seminar every now and then of how it is done - but please do not take them out of the field.
The guys that get it done as missionaries - the last thing we need is to get them out of the field.
Leave it to the guys that can't get it done to work the office.
However - one thing they need: They do need the skill of getting the right people to the right place and getting them all the resources they need. |
Why do we have to take someone out of the field???? Plenty of organizations have people serving double duty as pastor and officials. Sure it would take a different role at there church, but imagined if someone told jentzen franklin that his church is taking away from his evangelism. Or that his evangelism is taking away from his church? That would not fly to well. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 358
5/9/18 1:01 pm
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cogcia |
| We would have to trust the pastors to choose leaders and that would cut down on the power of church politics. Our systems serves leadership and then the leadership appoint family and supporters. Not much is based on merit. Even most large church appointments are based on politics and not merit. Have you even seen an overseers son appointed to a church of 35. If they pastor they get a large church until they can get them in the system. The last thing most system people ever want to do is to Pastor again. We creat permanent poly-tics. Many living off the host and feel entitled to do so. Had a young system man tell me that us pastors should do. I said you think that way because you’ve never pastored. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 122
5/9/18 1:40 pm
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Pine Knot |
| SouthFloridaman wrote: | | Nature Boy Florida wrote: | Don't you want your mediocre guys in admin positions?
The guys that get it done as pastors - the last thing we need is to get them out of the field. Let them write books - give a seminar every now and then of how it is done - but please do not take them out of the field.
The guys that get it done as missionaries - the last thing we need is to get them out of the field.
Leave it to the guys that can't get it done to work the office.
However - one thing they need: They do need the skill of getting the right people to the right place and getting them all the resources they need. |
Why do we have to take someone out of the field???? Plenty of organizations have people serving double duty as pastor and officials. Sure it would take a different role at there church, but imagined if someone told jentzen franklin that his church is taking away from his evangelism. Or that his evangelism is taking away from his church? That would not fly to well. |
This could be solved by dissolving the current model of Pastor without true eldership. In other words our ONE leader mentality of leading churches. When the ONE guy is gone many time the church begins to fall to pieces. The guys that are there, born there, raised there, own property there...have skin in the game and should be handling a lion share of leadership. Instead ONE guy who may have lots of charisma, be very talented or have a talented family is brought in, hired...whatever and everyone is looking to him. When he moves on...or up or out, then there is a huge loss of leadership.
We often complain about church bosses but the reality is that many times church bosses develop because of the vacuum of the true church model.
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"Now unto Him who is able to do exceeding, abundantly, above all..." |
New Member
Posts: 11
5/9/18 2:15 pm
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cogcia |
| What use to work is not working anymore. No one wants to Admit our old model has become corrupt and is killing us. We are all suppose to just continue supporting the system regardless of the fact it is broken. Your insubordinate if you speak out. Your blind followers if you don’t. We are one of two growing churches on our district. Seven are getting close to closing. Average attendance ion our district is down 75% from 10 years ago. 2 churches closed, but no plan to turn the ship around. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 122
5/12/18 9:13 am
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SouthFloridaman |
| How do we fix it cogcia? |
Friendly Face
Posts: 358
5/14/18 3:59 pm
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cogcia |
I personally believe it will take a system change. AB’s has complete power and answer to the EC. Pastors are in jeopardy if they don’t support the AB. Until that power is broken and AB’s answer to the pastors nothing changes. Y
What is best for the states are not the goal. Now what is best for the system is the goal and the churches have no choice but to keep supporting the system. Most know the system is broken, but you are insubordinate if you speak out. I’m a few years away from retirement, I would never encourage a young man to get into this bondage. The system has become the mission.
So I just keep doing my best in my church and support a system that I know would crush me tomorrow if I was speak publicly. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 122
5/14/18 10:37 pm
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| Council of Pastors |
MoonWalkingWithJesus |
| cogcia wrote: | I personally believe it will take a system change. AB’s has complete power and answer to the EC. Pastors are in jeopardy if they don’t support the AB. Until that power is broken and AB’s answer to the pastors nothing changes. Y
What is best for the states are not the goal. Now what is best for the system is the goal and the churches have no choice but to keep supporting the system. Most know the system is broken, but you are insubordinate if you speak out. I’m a few years away from retirement, I would never encourage a young man to get into this bondage. The system has become the mission.
So I just keep doing my best in my church and support a system that I know would crush me tomorrow if I was speak publicly. |
Your right... I think the problem is very systematic. Political Appointments are nearly autocratic. Nearly everything is rubber stamped due to the council of 18 being dominated with company men of the system. No overseer is going to speak out due to fear of not getting an appointment from the 5 guys on the executive council and the pastors on the council are mostly those with political aspirations or on track to getting an appointment somewhere with few stand outs (loran Livingston comes to mind) this is hearsay but I heard someone on the council of 18 many years ago had the opinion that someone was going to hell with the way money was spent. I would go as far as saying council of 18 agenda is highly curated by the executive comitee before it even reaches the 18. I would assume that if there were not such strict confidentiality agreements on the council there would be more speaking out against some of the things that have happened.
My solution is separate world missions into its own baby. World missions already the largest budget line at international office it makes sense to split it off. Devolop a governing body for those outside the USA With the Goal of advancing the global church. Then take the council of 18 and make it a council of pastors broken down geographically.
Region 1=2 representatives
Region 2=5 representatives
Region 3=3 representatives
Region 4=3 representatives
Region 5=5 representatives
Region 6=6 representatives
This would provide checks and balances. Checks and balances are what is lacking in our system. Overseers check the local churches, council of churches check the overseers. Seems like a great plan for me it would take some of the abuses of power out our organizations. It would also insure that we think nationally instead of regionaly by allowing a place for those from outside of the core southern states. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 141
5/15/18 12:09 am
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