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 Council of 24 |
skinnybishop |
I just got an email about the proposed bylaw change, increasing the Council of 18 to 24.
The rationale is, basically, since the COG has gotten bigger, the Council needs to be bigger.
My first reaction is this isn't really necessary. How often does the Executive Council meet now?
What say you
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Eddie Wiggins |
Acts Enthusiast
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5/1/18 4:43 pm
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MoonWalkingWithJesus |
A better answer to this would be a division of authority. We are too heavy with full time guys at the top. Maybe a USA conference and a few various world conferences of the cog like Asia, Europe, north and south America . It is super easy to take a bunch of people from outside the USA and say it is for diversity when it is in reality a Ploy to keep someone in power. Plus why would the outside of the country folks vote against someone that is providing all these benefits. I would agree with this if it means a reduction in assistant overseers positions and spreading out the responsibilities of those positions among those who pastors churches on the council of 24. But what would that look like. Adding more people seems like throwing more unnecessariness in the mix. Unless it means more pastors and more thinking younger. Maybe pastor focused thinking needs to be the next movement in the cog. I know it is probably not this but lets hope That this proposed change is justa way of making the council appear to be more open to pastors rather than just means to keep some officials and overseers that are dependent on the system in the loop. something needs to be done status quo isn’t working.
Last edited by MoonWalkingWithJesus on 5/1/18 8:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
Friendly Face
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5/1/18 7:05 pm
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| I would like to see... |
Clint Wills |
There was a brief statement saying that equitable consideration in the selection process for ethnic and generational representation on the Executive Council.
I'd like to see some more meat on that. I'd be in favor of MANDATING some younger people, more pastors, an additional overseas representative. I don't have a strong opinion on whether it is 18 or 24, but I'd really like to see those 6 seats be the RIGHT 6 seats...lets be intentional with the move. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5163
5/1/18 8:33 pm
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| 24 |
cogcia |
| At least 10 pastors from outside the US. At least 10 pastors stateside and no more than 4 at large. The last thing we need is more system men controlling the system. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 122
5/1/18 9:46 pm
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| Re: I would like to see... |
Old Time Country Preacher |
| Clint Wills wrote: | | I'd really like to see those 6 seats be the RIGHT 6 seats. |
What Clint means is that one of those seats be filled by OTCP. |
Acts-pert Poster
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5/1/18 10:12 pm
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| How hard would this be... |
MoonWalkingWithJesus |
Have a World church of God fellowship that debates doctrine and steers missions and development of different regions of the church of God (north/ South America- Asia- Africa - Europe). We also need to have people elected by folks from that region to foster ownership in the worldwide cog. Just make the council of 18 deal with America issues. The a/g has done this for years with the world ag fellowship. http://worldagfellowship.org. It makes the ag a global group this extension of the council to 24 is just a shift in policy to cover up bigger issues at hand. It is a shuffling of the deck because of future fears. They can provide a seat to those outside the USA without dismantling the current council of 18. Also check this out the ag voted there first female general secretary.
https://news.ag.org/news/donna-barrett-elected-general-secretary
She is the first woman on the A/G executive leadership team. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 141
5/1/18 10:30 pm
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| Re: 24 |
MoonWalkingWithJesus |
| cogcia wrote: | | At least 10 pastors from outside the US. At least 10 pastors stateside and no more than 4 at large. The last thing we need is more system men controlling the system. |
I think that is too broad. I would say a cog state side cog and a world wide cog. Still have the stateside cog as the authoritative power in America. To many issues for one board to handle. We definitely need to think younger or loosen the reigns on some of the churches.
Maybe say the worldwide cog would be everyone outside of the USA. Make a prerequisite that they have to pastor a church outside of the USA. Then make the current council of 18 just for those who are state side
That maybe a bad idea I don’t know. But the council of 18 with a focus on the USA might be a great thing. Say x number of seats must come from certain regions. We follow this in the USA government with House of Representatives and a senate. The house is for the highly populated parts of the country. The senate is where the rural parts have a voice and all states are on a equal plan why not have something like that in the cog. |
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Posts: 141
5/1/18 10:50 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
For several decades now, the AG world missions philosophy has been to develop indigenous leadership and eventually, autonomous national fellowships wherever new mission fields have been pioneered. The USA AG leadership still has a lot of influence on these non-USA AG fellowships, but there is no overarching patriarchal system, such as one finds in the Roman Catholic Church or in the CoG, for that matter.
The CoG, on the other hand, is defined by its hierarchical structure. I don’t know if decentralizing our world missions structure would even work. If it were to work, it would likely lead to decentralization here in the USA as well. Personally, I hope that never happens in the USA, at least not like the AG is set up. Been there, done that. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
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5/1/18 11:24 pm
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| Re: I would like to see... |
Link |
| Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | Clint Wills wrote: | | I'd really like to see those 6 seats be the RIGHT 6 seats. |
What Clint means is that one of those seats be filled by OTCP. |
I didn't picture you as being that big.
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Acts-perienced Poster
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5/2/18 5:26 am
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| Quiet Wyatt wrote: | | The CoG, on the other hand, is defined by its hierarchical structure. I don’t know if decentralizing our world missions structure would even work. If it were to work, it would likely lead to decentralization here in the USA as well. Personally, I hope that never happens in the USA, at least not like the AG is set up. Been there, done that. |
I wasn't aware of this. I do not think it is the case in Indonesia. Gereja Bethel existed in Indonesia before it's partnership with the COG. It's the largest national conference, but I don't think there are people in Cleveland calling the shots. I suppose they could exert some influence if there were a lot of missions funds involved. With some of the megachurches in Indonesia, it would take a lot of money to compete for influence.
But I don't know the inner workings of either denomination. It is my understanding here, that the sinode here is not under the GA.
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5/2/18 5:28 am
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Chicago27 |
| Only if they include women. |
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Posts: 253
5/2/18 5:54 am
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| System |
cogcia |
Does it really matter? In the State the AB has 100% authority. The State council is just an office of honor, but only has power gaven by the AB. I have no expectations the council of 18 or 24 most of who are beholden to the EC really has any authority. Our church structure is and will always be a top down structure. No board or council carries power. Power lies in the hands of the men that control your job. In the state that is the AB all other levels that is the EC. This will be a hotly debated items that will make no difference except for preception. If you want to make a difference let pastors elect their AB. Then ABs would be working for the state and not for the system. The power of appointments has corrupted our system. Top down power. I
Think it was Lamar Vest that said we must invert the pyramid, but nothing changed. All power remains with the power of appointment. When half the people on the floor either has an appointment or hoping for an appointment power is in the politics. |
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5/2/18 7:11 am
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MrSippi |
Since this is a bylaw change, no amendment can be made. It has to be voted for or against as written.
Although I am in favor of more diversity on the council, I am not in favor a mandating it. I personally do not believe that any state overseer should be eligible to serve on the council. It is a conflict. I never vote for state overseers. |
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5/2/18 7:46 am
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| Re: 24 |
Brandon Bowers |
| cogcia wrote: | | no more than 4 at large. |
Is this a fat joke??
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My Facebook www.facebook.com/theB3 |
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5/2/18 9:01 am
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| Council of 24 |
Dentanner |
I would like to work on an amendment to the bylaw. Rationalization is that because almost 200-300% of our growth occurred outside the USA we should have more global leaders on the council. At least one leader from each region who lives outside the USA, which by the way could include a female! I would propose 6 members elected from outside the USA, 1 member elected from PTS or one of our other Seminaries (responsible for teaching us about doctrine and polity) and the rest could be pastors.
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Dennis Tanner
Administrative Bishop Scotland
Church of God Career Missionary |
Hey, DOC
Posts: 97
5/2/18 10:39 am
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| Re: 24 |
cogcia |
| Brandon Bowers wrote: | | cogcia wrote: | | no more than 4 at large. |
Is this a fat joke??
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It will never happen, but men controlled by the system will never be honest with the system. With the system controlling a huge percentage of the men on the floor the system controls the agenda and the outcome. Might as well quit wasting the money on assembly and just let the council of 18 control the COG shuffle. Why spend so much to play musical chairs. Just do online voting for the council of 18 or 24 and let them move the chairs. Then they can appoint their sons and sons in laws to be AB’s and Youth Directors. And the rest of us can just keep having church and supporting the system. |
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Posts: 122
5/2/18 12:29 pm
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MoonWalkingWithJesus |
| Quiet Wyatt wrote: | For several decades now, the AG world missions philosophy has been to develop indigenous leadership and eventually, autonomous national fellowships wherever new mission fields have been pioneered. The USA AG leadership still has a lot of influence on these non-USA AG fellowships, but there is no overarching patriarchal system, such as one finds in the Roman Catholic Church or in the CoG, for that matter.
The CoG, on the other hand, is defined by its hierarchical structure. I don’t know if decentralizing our world missions structure would even work. If it were to work, it would likely lead to decentralization here in the USA as well. Personally, I hope that never happens in the USA, at least not like the AG is set up. Been there, done that. |
The Methodist organization is centralized with decentralized regions through out the world. We need indigenous leadership. But the council of 18, 24 or 100 is not the way to do it. They need to separate the the power structure of world missions. Some guy from Indonesia is not concerned about being state overseer of Kentucky. And the guy from Kentucky doesn’t give a rats butt about being overseer of Indonesia.This is a power grab by executive committee... they are scared of what is coming around the bend.. no one in there right mind from a missions area is going to buck Clevelands power structure because that’s the bulk of their funding. we need a pastor only executive council of 18 where it follows the rank-and-file of church of God ministers because were not been adequately represented from on high. It is a conflict of interest to have anyone who’s main employment is Cleveland on that excitive council of 18. Executive Committee should not be on executive Council of 18 it is a conflict of interest |
Friendly Face
Posts: 141
5/2/18 2:39 pm
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