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The Washing of Feet- an ongoing sacrament?
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Post The Washing of Feet- an ongoing sacrament? Da Sheik
Is it time that we take a good, long look at our DoF and possibly reword or revise some items? We had a discussion earlier about divine healing for all. I'd like to take a look at foot washing as a continuing sacrament of the Church.

I definitely believe The Lord's Supper is ongoing until the Lord comes. But does the practice of foot washing as we typically observe it deserve to be mentioned alongside the Lord's Supper?
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4/17/18 11:45 am


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Post diakoneo
It is apparent by action I have witnessed that footwashing is not held as sacrament by most Pentecostal churches.

It is not on the same level as water baptism and communion.

Maybe there are levels of sacrament??? Seems to me some pastors don't want to have communion either and would prefer to get a load before they baptize...
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4/17/18 12:04 pm


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Post Quiet Wyatt
In my view, the whole concept of sacramentalism is deeply flawed. I’ll never understand why Pentecostals want to adopt sacramentalist ideas, but they so often seem to. [Insert Acts Pun Here]
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4/17/18 12:15 pm


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Post Nature Boy Florida
John 13:12 When he had finished washing their feet, he put on his clothes and returned to his place. “Do you understand what I have done for you?” he asked them. 13 “You call me ‘Teacher’ and ‘Lord,’ and rightly so, for that is what I am. 14 Now that I, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also should wash one another’s feet. 15 I have set you an example that you should do as I have done for you. 16 Very truly I tell you, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him. 17 Now that you know these things, you will be blessed if you do them.

Two questions:

Is this a suggestion only?

If the words "you will be blessed if you do them" were written in the New Testament regarding Tithes - would you teach that it should be done?
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4/17/18 12:20 pm


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Post Quiet Wyatt
I have made it my practice to lead my congregation in communion with footwashing two or three times a year, though never as a ‘sacrament’ per se. I always emphasize the beautiful, Christ-reflecting and Christ-glorifying symbolism and memorialism behind the ordinance/practice. [Insert Acts Pun Here]
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4/17/18 1:05 pm


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Post diakoneo
[quote="Nature Boy Florida"]John 13:12 When he had finished washing their feet, he put on his clothes and returned to his place. “Do you understand what I have done for you?” he asked them. 1

Are we compelled to pay tithe under the new covenant?

If we are to wash each other's feet, how often?

It has been suggested that the foot washing was not to be literal and that what Christ was doing was figurative of what the Church was to do in terms of fellowship in watching out and caring for one another's soul. Christ knew that Peter would deny Him, Judas would betray Him and that all would abandon Him and He still performed the most menial of tasks to them. Do we wash each other's feet? I don't know but Jesus said we should!

We can wash the physical feet just as we do in the baptism. The physical body gets literally wet but THAT physical part is only symbolic of what has occurred to the soul. We can get legalistic about anything I suppose. The physical baptism is not what saved us and the physical washing of the feet does not impact the soul.

Why did Christ wash the disciple's feet?
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4/17/18 1:31 pm


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Post Ordinance not Sacrament FG Minister
The word “sacrament” is not the correct term to use here – the word “ordinance” is. Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, and a few of the Protestant denominations use the term "sacrament" to refer to "a sign/rite which results in God's grace being conveyed to the individual." Typically, there are seven sacraments in these denominations. They are baptism, confirmation, holy communion, confession, marriage, holy orders, and the anointing of the sick.

However, we don’t believe that at all. The Bible tells us that grace is not given through outward symbols and no ritual is “necessary for salvation.” Grace is free.

Most Protestants see ordinances as symbolic reenactments of the gospel that Christ lived, died, was raised from the dead, ascended to heaven, and will someday return. Rather than requirements for salvation, ordinances are visual aids to help us better understand and appreciate what Jesus Christ accomplished for us in His redemptive work.

Regarding foot washing. This was something Jesus did as a one-time event in that context. In John Chapter 13, the washing of feet was a custom and tradition of that time. Just as greeting one another with a “holy kiss” was in Romans 16:16, as Paul was greeted by those who loved him (Acts 20:37). 1 Corinthians 11:5,6 describes a woman having her head covered in public, as it was the custom to do so. If her head was not covered, she was considered a prostitute.

Some of these customs are still practiced in a few countries today. In America, the hand shake is a custom replacing the “holy kiss” of the Middle-East.

Jesus is addressing the disciples in this passage and is going to use the custom of foot washing as a very important object lesson to his followers. It illustrates humility and serving others. I don’t think it is to be perpetual in the church. It was a regional custom and He used it to illustrate a point. However, there is nothing wrong with it if a congregation chooses to do so. I think one of the COG professors in Cleveland wrote his dissertation on feet washing, but I am not persuaded it is to be an ongoing ordinance of the church.
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4/17/18 2:34 pm


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Post Nature Boy Florida
Why would we interpret this as Jesus' intentional act as humility or fellowship here?
Why would we equate it with a "holy kiss" or a woman covering her head - when Jesus clearly bestowed a blessing on them for doing so? I didn't see him say folks would be blessed by "holy kisses"...not that there was anything wrong with it

And let's face it - he didn't do it as a custom of the day. The meal was already in progress.

If you were going to wash folks feet as a custom - you would do it when they arrived at the home - not during the meal. And they probably did do it when they first arrived...but Jesus was showing them something much greater and significant here. A physical act with a deep spiritual meaning - much like baptism.
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4/17/18 2:56 pm


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Post Re: Ordinance not Sacrament Da Sheik
FG Minister wrote:

Jesus is addressing the disciples in this passage and is going to use the custom of foot washing as a very important object lesson to his followers. It illustrates humility and serving others. I don’t think it is to be perpetual in the church. It was a regional custom and He used it to illustrate a point. However, there is nothing wrong with it if a congregation chooses to do so. I think one of the COG professors in Cleveland wrote his dissertation on feet washing, but I am not persuaded it is to be an ongoing ordinance of the church.


These are exactly my thoughts. I should have used the word “ordinance “ instead of sacrament. I would edit the initial post but I won’t so that the others who commented on it won’t seem like they were talking out of turn.
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4/17/18 3:00 pm


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Post Lotrimin and nail clippers Belieber
I washed a guys feet one time during a foot warshing and his toe nails were so bad he could have perched on a tree. Hey, DOC
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4/17/18 9:13 pm


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Post Dr. Chris Thomas Mark Ledbetter
has an excellent book addressing this issue.

One conclusion he drew was to use feet washing in the restoration of a fallen believer in lieu of being rebaptized.

It speaks of restoration in the believers relationship with Christ and the Congregation.

I used this on one occasion and it proved to be very beneficial and inspirational to both the one having his feet washed and members of the congregation participating in the ritual.
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4/17/18 10:58 pm


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Post Cojak
It has been a long time since we have observed foot wasing. I do appreciate the practice that requires humility.

BUT this is a different world. Most folk do not wear sandals , and especially to church. There would be a whole different attitude if we did not have to go thru the practice of removing socks and shoes. There are some very honest, Christians who 'feel' strange preparing for foot washing.

I have no problem and have been blessed many times in my life, however I do understand the hesitancey in men (and women) whose feet 'smell bad' no matter how much they wash them before doning their socks, hose and shoes before service. WE are a society that wear shoes, socks and hose, much differenct when the one washing removed the sandals, or the owner just stepped out of them.

We all have noticed the number recieving communion drops to less than 50% at the foot washing. That does not mean those that 'ease out' of church during the transition are not humble.

Some feel as I did at an AT BOOT camp (An open fitting for hiking boots) when the man looking at my feet called to the leader and said, "Man come look at these crooked toes and bunions."

This society is awash with shame at physical imperfections. It is built in thru life, as much as you would like to change it, Some folk are embarrassed to expose a part of their body that is normally covered, ref Belieber's comment. I had a father in law that required a doctor to trim his nails because they were like eagle claws.

I beleive the practice of foot washihng should be continued as long as Christians particitpate. If they do not, I do not feel they should be shamed. That is my opinion of course. Cool

I would wager if that night the pastor suggested everyone wear sandals, you might get more participatants. Embarassed Idea
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4/17/18 11:24 pm


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Post Two Points Mat
Two points:

1 - To me, "ordinance" is a better word that "sacraments". We are the Church of God Movement, not Rome, Orthodox or Anglican. If sacraments prevails will marriage, confession and conformation be far behind?

2 - The reduction of the Spiritual value found in "Washing the Saints Feet," in my opinion, is related to the denigration of the mystery and fellowship with Christ and the members of His Body found in Communion. Many churches have reduced communion to a "serve-your-self" experience during the Praise and Worship portion of the service. No restrictions on who may partake, no oversight from ministry, no call to examining our spiritual condition and relationships.

Yes, Washing the Saints Feet may not be a regular aspect of our worship gatherings as Communion, however, it seems that the women who washed Jesus feet before his death received a blessing, the disciples were promised a blessing by Jesus as washed their feet and the widows were consider in the Faith and worthy of support if they washed the Saints Feet.

I have no doubt it would do our top leaders great good to wash the feet of the members.

Mat
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4/18/18 6:56 am


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Post Da Sheik
Nature Boy Florida wrote:

If you were going to wash folks feet as a custom - you would do it when they arrived at the home - not during the meal. And they probably did do it when they first arrived...but Jesus was showing them something much greater and significant here. A physical act with a deep spiritual meaning - much like baptism.


I agree that Jesus was teaching them a deep spiritual meaning. But I don't think he was giving a model ceremony to be repeated throughout the ages. Prior to Jesus' death, we find the Apostles continually debating who was going to be the greatest in the Kingdom. Clearly, they expected to be "in charge" of Jerusalem within a matter of days. The Triumphant Entry had the city in a fever pitch.

The Apostles clearly didn't believe Jesus's earlier predictions about His impending crucifixion. This is probably one reason at first they were indignant about Jesus washing their feet. They didn't want their King to lower Himself to such a standard. After all, He had just ridden into town with palm branches and the cries of "Hosanna". Jesus took aim at their pride and showed them that the servant is not greater than his Master.

In my mind, this is the message of "foot washing". Let your servant's towel be bigger than your ego. I have no problem with those who observe the ceremony- have done it many times myself. But I do not see it anywhere on par with Holy Communion.
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4/18/18 1:29 pm


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Post Christopher Stephenson
Sacrament? We could debate that at length.

Ongoing? Yes. Jesus' words with the footwashing of "If I your Lord and Master...you also ought to wash one another's" are as much if not more of a command than "as oft as you do this..." with the Lord's supper.

JC Thomas is fundamentally correct about this much (at least): The footwashing in John 13 cannot be reduced to humility/service. The washing symbolizes cleansing.

Footwashing strikes me as an ideal continual practice for Christian communities that wish to emphasize holiness and sanctification.
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4/18/18 7:27 pm


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Post Da Sheik
Christopher Stephenson wrote:


JC Thomas is fundamentally correct about this much (at least): The footwashing in John 13 cannot be reduced to humility/service. The washing symbolizes cleansing.


Just so I’m clear....are you suggesting that some type of spiritual cleansing takes place when someone submits themself as a candidate for foot washing? I think Jesus teaches exactly the opposite. Peter, after first refusal, then invited the Lord to give him a good soaking. No doubt Peter thought this would symbolize the fact that he was “all in “. At this point Jesus points out that the 11 are already clean! Only Judas, the betrayer, was spiritually unclean.

Again, I have no problem with believers having a foot washing service. But I like to invite people to reason through why they believe what they believe. And we (the COG), seem to equate foot washing with the Lord’s Supper as it is currently worded in the DoF.
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4/18/18 9:55 pm


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Post Thanks for the question... Christopher Stephenson
Whether one thinks that footwashing conveys or only represents cleansing--that is the sacramental bit that we could debate--my point a la Thomas is that footwashing is related to cleansing, not just humility and serving others.

If my memory serves, the only other occurrence of "water" in John 13ff. is the water and blood that flowed from Jesus' side during the crucifixion. (Please correct me if I remember incorrectly.)
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4/19/18 1:53 pm


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Post Nature Boy Florida
Sheik - they are clean from baptism - but not clean from the day to day filth that wants to attach itself to each disciple. Thus - foot washing is symbolic of the day to day cleansing each of us must apply to the Christian life.

Jesus was clearly pointing out that ongoing work of keeping oneself pure - is a daily ritual - and we should help one another to stay that way.

Which is in direct contrast to the saved once - sin as you want from now on - since Jesus cleansed us once and for all.

Yes we are cleans AND we need daily washing.

Unfortunately - foot washing isn't understood as such - thus the erroneous teaching of keep on sinning such that grace may abound more...since Jesus has forgiven us of all sins already.

True - we are clean AND in need of (foot) washing.
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4/19/18 6:02 pm


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Post Da Sheik
Indulge me for a moment if you will. Let’s say, for the sake of argument, that Jesus was showing a picture of ongoing sanctification. If that’s true, why did Peter go right out and deny the Lord 3 times and the other 10 abandon the cause as well ?

I don’t think the Lord intended the 11 faithful to see this as a continual ritual. Peter interpreted this as a ritual: “Lord, not my feet only , but also my hands and my head” (John 13:9). Jesus then washes only their feet and tells them why He did so. It can’t be more clear. He told them plainly why He washed their feet in John 13:12-17. There was no mystical meaning. The Son of God humbled Himself once more and washed their dirty feet. He would then go and humble Himself again to the death of the Cross.
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4/19/18 10:39 pm


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Post Mystical, no, but Mat
De Sheik,

You said, "There was no mystical meaning" in Washing the Saints Feet, but i would say there is a Spiritual experience that is much more than the bowel, towel, water and feet.

Just as taking communion is something more that just eating unleavened bread and drinking wine, and water baptism is more that just being forced under water, there is power in following Christ example.

We do have many Christians who feel they are better than Jesus, because they are unwilling to wash feet (IMO). Our Christian/Church leaders are assuming the row of CEOs and abandoning the "servant spirit" of our Savior. They demand compensation and prestige comparable to the secular culture while viewing the bowel and towel with contempt.

God does resist the proud and he does give grace to the humble. We need to remove the titles we cover or heads with and knee before the feet of others, even Judas.

That's how I see it.

Mat
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4/20/18 7:44 am


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