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 Question about the COG Declaration of Faith and divine healing in the atonement |
Dave Dorsey |
The COG Declaration of Faith states:
| Quote: | | We believe ... Divine healing is provided for all in the atonement. |
It seems that most COG ministers don't interpret this as a guaranteed reality in this life, but rather an eschatological promise that is realized in some measure in this life and then fully realized in the life to come.
My question is: Is this what the authors of the DoF intended? Has the COG historically understood this in this way, or have they historically understood it as a promise that divine healing is provided (and thus logically available) to all in this life?
Later on, the DoF affirms the redemption of our bodies in the resurrection, which would necessarily include healing from any and all sickness or disease. It seems weird (to me) to note separately that divine healing is provided for all in the atonement, unless they intend to refer to something distinct from the redemption of our bodies at the last day. |
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Posts: 13654
4/4/18 11:02 am
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Old Time Country Preacher |
Divine healing is provided for all in the atonement, meanin at provision was made for all sickness/disease/malady known to humankind.
Our sovereign God alone disburses said provision in accordance with his perfect will for each individual.
For example:
1. Hezekiah prayed an got 15 additional years of life. Does that mean everyone who prays the identical words of Hezekiah will get exactly 15 more years of life?
2. Elisha layed on top of a dead boys body an the little feller come back to life. Does at mean if preachers go to funeral homes and lay on top of a corpse the dead person will cough an come back to life?
3. Paul was bit by a viper an lived when he shoulda died? Does at mean ever snake handler what gits bit is gonna live?
God sovereignly works his purpose in each individual life. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
4/4/18 11:20 am
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Dave Dorsey |
| Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | Divine healing is provided for all in the atonement, meanin at provision was made for all sickness/disease/malady known to humankind.
Our sovereign God alone disburses said provision in accordance with his perfect will for each individual.
...
God sovereignly works his purpose in each individual life. |
I presume this isn't your view of salvation, which is something else that was provided in the atonement. Where and how do you draw the line for treating divine healing in a different way?
For example, if I said, "Salvation is provided for all in the atonement, meaning that provision was made for all sin/rebellion/transgression known to humankind" I suspect you would disagree with the notion that our sovereign God alone disburses that provision in accordance with His perfect will for each individual. Instead, you'd surely say that what God provided in the atonement needs to be received by each individual by faith.
So given that I just did a find/replace on your statement above, where is the warrant for treating divine healing as something sovereignly applied?
Not trying to start a Calvin/Arminius feud, and soteriology isn't my focus at all here. I'm just not sure your explanation of this item in the DoF is logically consistent. |
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Posts: 13654
4/4/18 11:26 am
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Dave Dorsey |
| And also, I'm mainly wondering how this statement in the DoF has been understood by the COG historically. |
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Posts: 13654
4/4/18 11:33 am
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Nature Boy Florida |
God sovereignly works his purpose in each individual life.[/quote]
| Quote: | I presume this isn't your view of salvation, which is something else that was provided in the atonement. Where and how do you draw the line for treating divine healing in a different way?
For example, if I said, "Salvation is provided for all in the atonement, meaning that provision was made for all sin/rebellion/transgression known to humankind" I suspect you would disagree with the notion that our sovereign God alone disburses that provision in accordance with His perfect will for each individual. Instead, you'd surely say that what God provided in the atonement needs to be received by each individual by faith.
So given that I just did a find/replace on your statement above, where is the warrant for treating divine healing as something sovereignly applied?
Not trying to start a Calvin/Arminius feud, and soteriology isn't my focus at all here. I'm just not sure your explanation of this item in the DoF is logically consistent. |
But isn't that the view of all the learned preachers today.
That salvation is "technically" provided for all - but since God has foreknowledge - he must have predestined those that will get saved and those that won't. In John 3:16 God said whosoever believes will be saved - but with predestination - he must not have really meant it - isn't old timer thus being consistent - and you are being hard on him unfairly?
Back to what the COG believed - everything you need for healing is provided for all in the atonement - but not all receive it - the healing of salvation or the healing of physical needs.
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Posts: 16646
4/4/18 11:47 am
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Dave Dorsey |
| Nature Boy Florida wrote: | | Back to what the COG believed - everything you need for healing is provided for all in the atonement - but not all receive it - the healing of salvation or the healing of physical needs. |
OK. That's different than what OTCP said (BTW, I agree with the Ole Timer).
So you're saying the COG historically understood this as a promise that healing was provided and available for all in this life, to anyone who would receive it? |
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4/4/18 12:11 pm
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Da Sheik |
| Dave Dorsey wrote: | | And also, I'm mainly wondering how this statement in the DoF has been understood by the COG historically. |
Since I'm an old guy, I'm going to chime in. Though some would articulate it differently, I dare say most would hold to the view that it speaks of physical healing in this life.
There are several items in the DoF I would like to see reworded or at the very least revisited; this being one of them. I think foot washing and sanctification need to be clarified as well, but I shan't derail this discussion. |
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Posts: 1865
4/4/18 12:38 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
A close examination of the literature of the early generations of Classical Pentecostalism will find that most were quite emphatic that physical healing was always God’s perfect will, just as much as salvation was always God’s perfect will. It is not hard to find historical accounts of Pentecostal missionaries dying on the field from maladies that could have been remedied with the medical knowledge of that day. By the time my grandfather was converted in the 1930s, many Pentecostals still adamantly refused any medicine whatesoever, saying they put their trust completely in God concerning their health. I think one would be safe in saying that the CoG statement on healing reflects that early Pentecostal conviction.
If I could, I would like to change the DoF to say, “Divine healing is provided for all in the atonement, and is guaranteed to be fully realized at the resurrection of the believer.†|
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4/4/18 1:07 pm
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Dave Dorsey |
Thanks Da Sheik and QW. Very much appreciate your input.
BTW, Da Sheik, feel free to open the thread up! I've often thought about how strange it was to consider footwashing a sacrament. I learned recently that the COG is not alone in this view. |
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Posts: 13654
4/4/18 1:20 pm
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Nature Boy Florida |
| Dave Dorsey wrote: | Thanks Da Sheik and QW. Very much appreciate your input.
BTW, Da Sheik, feel free to open the thread up! I've often thought about how strange it was to consider footwashing a sacrament. I learned recently that the COG is not alone in this view. |
One need only sit with Dr. Chris Thomas for an hour to be convinced foot washing is a sacrament.
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4/4/18 1:24 pm
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Cojak |
[quote="Da Sheik"] | Dave Dorsey wrote: | | And also, I'm mainly wondering how this statement in the DoF has been understood by the COG historically. |
Since I'm an old guy, I'm going to chime in. Though some would articulate it differently, I dare say most would hold to the view that it speaks of physical healing in this life.
From the 1940's from where I came from that was the EXACT. thought.
An evangelist friend of mine in NC, declared after praying for a man with cancer. "YOu are healed, you can take that to any doctor for proof." The man died a week later and when I asked my friend his thoughts he said, "Is he not completely healed now?"
I agree with that , but that was not what the declaration in church MEANT, and the church folk knew that.   
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4/4/18 2:49 pm
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