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Is there a blessing that comes from keeping the 613 OT laws?
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Post Is there a blessing that comes from keeping the 613 OT laws? bradfreeman
Deut 28:1-14 says there is blessing for keeping all of His commandments and Deut 28:15-63 says there is a long list of curses if you don't keep all of His commandments.

But we are not under law, we are under grace.
Our covenant is not a covenant of righteousness, blessing and life by works.
Our new covenant is a covenant of righteousness, blessing and life by faith.

Paul made that clear in numerous places. Here's one:

Gal 5:1 You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? 2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? 4 Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? 5 So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

6 Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness. 7 Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. 8 The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “All the nations will be blessed in you.” 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.

10 For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.” 11 Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “The righteous man shall live by faith.” 12 However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “He who practices them shall live by them.” 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”— 14 in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.


Do we receive any of these by the works of the law?
    The Spirit
    Perfection
    Miracles
    Righteousness
    Life
    Blessing

We receive all of these by hearing with faith.

The righteous man shall live by faith.
Since the law is not of faith (v 11), the righteous man shall not live by the law.
If you practice the law, which is not of faith, you find yourself under that Deut 28 list of curses...unless, of course, you're the first person to every keep ALL of the things written in the law.

No one is justified by or blessed or given the Spirit or perfection or miracles or life by the works of the law.
In other words, keeping the 613 OT laws has nothing to do with our righteousness, blessing or life.
Faith is how we live and access all of these things.
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Last edited by bradfreeman on 2/27/18 4:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post FLRon
Excellent summation Brad. To answer your question,no, there is no blessing that comes from keeping the law. Anyone who attempts to live under the law is cursed,not blessed, because they cannot keep every one of them.

The law was a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ,a schoolmaster no longer needed.
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Post Isa 58:12
FLRon wrote:
Excellent summation Brad. To answer your question,no, there is no blessing that comes from keeping the law. Anyone who attempts to live under the law is cursed,not blessed, because they cannot keep every one of them.

The law was a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ,a schoolmaster no longer needed.


Don't u guys understand that G-d, our Creator, our Savior wrote the Torah/Law/Instructions that His people would be Holy/Set apart from the world living by different standards of life?

Deut 4:8; what are the nation is so great as to have such Righteous Decrees & Laws as this Body of Laws I Am setting before u this day 😗.

Do u guys tithe? Why? That's in the Law, Instructions in Lev. Deut 29:9; therefore keep all the Words of this Covenant "and do them" that you" shall prosper in ALL that you do
Ps 1:1-3.... & There r just so many others, y'all want to prosper? keep His Torah.
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Post Isa 58:12
& ur absolutely right brad, Deut 28 does have a long list of curses for not keeping his Commandments. So who is right, you or G-d I've heard multiple preachers preach for prosperity and blessings they always used Deuteronomy 28:1-14 and they stop there. The blessings come when you keep His Commandments, & if u don't....

Num 23:19; He's not a man that He should lie? Ps 89:34; My Covenant I will not break, nor alter the thing that comes out of My lips.

Brad you cannot use New Testament verses to describe the Old Testament, that's like reading a book backwards read a book from finish to start do you? And you'll never be able to understand the the New Covenant until you understand the first Covenant
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Post bradfreeman
Isa 58:12 wrote:
& ur absolutely right brad, Deut 28 does have a long list of curses for not keeping his Commandments. So who is right, you are G-d I've heard multiple preachers preach for prosperity and blessings me always used Deuteronomy 29 28 1 through 13 and they stop there. The blessings come when you keep His Commandments

Num 23:19; he's got a man that he should lie? Ps 89:34; My Covenant I will not break, nor alter the thing that comes out of My lips.

Brad you cannot use New Testament verses to describe the Old Testament, that's like reading a book backwards read a book from finish to start do you? And you'll never be able to understand the the New Covenant until you understand the first Covenant


The real issue is not me reading backwards.
It's you not reading the book foward.
There is no longer any Deut 28 curse. The cross matters.

God doesn't break His covenant by not cursing us. He fulfilled His old covenant in the life, death and resurrection of Jesus. The cross matters.

The bank isn't breaking the terms of the mortgage when it doesn't foreclose on a house that is paid in full. Christ's life of love fulfilled the law. Christ becoming sin and the curse on sin fully satisfied all demands of the old covenant. The cross matters.

Gal 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”— 14 in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
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Post Isa 58:12
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
& ur absolutely right brad, Deut 28 does have a long list of curses for not keeping his Commandments. So who is right, you are G-d I've heard multiple preachers preach for prosperity and blessings me always used Deuteronomy 29 28 1 through 13 and they stop there. The blessings come when you keep His Commandments

Num 23:19; he's got a man that he should lie? Ps 89:34; My Covenant I will not break, nor alter the thing that comes out of My lips.

Brad you cannot use New Testament verses to describe the Old Testament, that's like reading a book backwards read a book from finish to start do you? And you'll never be able to understand the the New Covenant until you understand the first Covenant


The real issue is not me reading backwards.
It's you not reading the book foward.
There is no longer any Deut 28 curse. The cross matters.

God doesn't break His covenant by not cursing us. He fulfilled His old covenant in the life, death and resurrection of Jesus. The cross matters.

The bank isn't breaking the terms of the mortgage when it doesn't foreclose on a house that is paid in full. Christ's life of love fulfilled the law. Christ becoming sin and the curse on sin fully satisfied all demands of the old covenant. The cross matters.

Gal 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”— 14 in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.


1John 2:4; he that says he knows G-d, & doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar & the Truth is not in him
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Post bradfreeman
Isa 58:12 wrote:
1John 2:4; he that says he knows G-d, & doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar & the Truth is not in him


Very good. Then in 1 John 3:23 he explains what those commandments are.

1 John 3:21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God; 22 and whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight.

23 This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. 24 The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.


His commandments are not the 613 laws of the old covenant. They are to believe and love.
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Post Resident Skeptic
Isa 58:12 wrote:
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
& ur absolutely right brad, Deut 28 does have a long list of curses for not keeping his Commandments. So who is right, you are G-d I've heard multiple preachers preach for prosperity and blessings me always used Deuteronomy 29 28 1 through 13 and they stop there. The blessings come when you keep His Commandments

Num 23:19; he's got a man that he should lie? Ps 89:34; My Covenant I will not break, nor alter the thing that comes out of My lips.

Brad you cannot use New Testament verses to describe the Old Testament, that's like reading a book backwards read a book from finish to start do you? And you'll never be able to understand the the New Covenant until you understand the first Covenant


The real issue is not me reading backwards.
It's you not reading the book foward.
There is no longer any Deut 28 curse. The cross matters.

God doesn't break His covenant by not cursing us. He fulfilled His old covenant in the life, death and resurrection of Jesus. The cross matters.

The bank isn't breaking the terms of the mortgage when it doesn't foreclose on a house that is paid in full. Christ's life of love fulfilled the law. Christ becoming sin and the curse on sin fully satisfied all demands of the old covenant. The cross matters.

Gal 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”— 14 in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.


1John 2:4; he that says he knows G-d, & doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar & the Truth is not in him



1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,

2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you[a] free from the law of sin and death.

3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh,

4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. (Romans 8:1-4
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Post Isa 58:12
Deut 30:19; I call Heaven and Earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you Life and death, "Blessings" and cursings.... A Blessing if we keep His Instructions, Laws, Torah & a curse if we do not, sins.

I'll use one of brad's favorites in Gal 3:13; Messiah has redeemed us from the "curse" of the Law, being made a curse for us, for it is written curse it is everyone that hangs on a tree.

Why was he hung on a tree (Deut 21:22) it was our sins, our lawlessness. He wasn't hung on a tree for Torah, He was hung on the tree for mankind breaking His Torah, the curse of sins
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Post Isa, let me ask YOU a question... Aaron Scott
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Deut 30:19; I call Heaven and Earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you Life and death, "Blessings" and cursings.... A Blessing if we keep His Instructions, Laws, Torah & a curse if we do not, sins.

I'll use one of brad's favorites in Gal 3:13; Messiah has redeemed us from the "curse" of the Law, being made a curse for us, for it is written curse it is everyone that hangs on a tree.

Why was he hung on a tree (Deut 21:22) it was our sins, our lawlessness. He wasn't hung on a tree for Torah, He was hung on the tree for mankind breaking His Torah, the curse of sins



Do you not believe what Paul wrote? He was a Jew. He loved the Jews. He was perfect in terms of obeying the law. Why do you resist what God gave Paul, yet cling to what God gave Moses?

I submit that you feel a "need" to belong...and what better group of people to belong to than Jews, right--God's chosen people...who killed the prophets...who wanted Jesus dead...who were given wonderful promises, etc.

They are just as messed up as ANY PEOPLE. God gives them wonderful things...and like the rest of mankind, they blew it time after time. But in your need to "belong," you take on the weirdness of Judaism. Like thinking that God is somehow pleased or respected if you drop the "o" when you write "G-d." Or that God is more pleased if we use only Hebrew words when speaking of spiritual things.

If you are not careful, then, like the Jews, you will esteem "your" customs and traditions over the grace that God extends through His Son, Jesus. And you, like them, may be lost in a false religion (for any religion that does not accept Jesus and what He did for us is false...and will send you to hell as quick as being an atheist).
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Post Re: Isa, let me ask YOU a question... Isa 58:12
Aaron Scott wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Deut 30:19; I call Heaven and Earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you Life and death, "Blessings" and cursings.... A Blessing if we keep His Instructions, Laws, Torah & a curse if we do not, sins.

I'll use one of brad's favorites in Gal 3:13; Messiah has redeemed us from the "curse" of the Law, being made a curse for us, for it is written curse it is everyone that hangs on a tree.

Why was he hung on a tree (Deut 21:22) it was our sins, our lawlessness. He wasn't hung on a tree for Torah, He was hung on the tree for mankind breaking His Torah, the curse of sins



Do you not believe what Paul wrote? He was a Jew. He loved the Jews. He was perfect in terms of obeying the law. Why do you resist what God gave Paul, yet cling to what God gave Moses?

I submit that you feel a "need" to belong...and what better group of people to belong to than Jews, right--God's chosen people...who killed the prophets...who wanted Jesus dead...who were given wonderful promises, etc.

They are just as messed up as ANY PEOPLE. God gives them wonderful things...and like the rest of mankind, they blew it time after time. But in your need to "belong," you take on the weirdness of Judaism. Like thinking that God is somehow pleased or respected if you drop the "o" when you write "G-d." Or that God is more pleased if we use only Hebrew words when speaking of spiritual things.

If you are not careful, then, like the Jews, you will esteem "your" customs and traditions over the grace that God extends through His Son, Jesus. And you, like them, may be lost in a false religion (for any religion that does not accept Jesus and what He did for us is false...and will send you to hell as quick as being an atheist).


😇 Shabbat shalom Aaron, it's good to see you again, I was hoping you would come back 😀. Now 🤔... Where do I start, do you believe exactly what Paul was saying about the Law, or was he speaking about the Jews law? They are opposite of each other. And see that's the problem wherever you see Law you lump it as one. The Jews laws were traditions they placed over the Torah, Messiah speaks of this in Matthew chapter 15: 1-9. That they keep the traditions of "men" and "not" the Commandments of G-d. G-d did not give Paul different rules

Why do you think they killed the prophets and Y'shua, have you ever asked yourself that? The stoning of Stephen is connected into to them too

I love Y'srael & I love the Jewish people just as I love Christians. I will speak to a Jewish person just as fast as I was speak to a Christian person just as fast as I speak to unsaved people. Which interesting, I just had a great conversation with an unsaved person this week and he received what I said with joy & it was lot easier people than here lol. He was an atheist and he wants to talk to me a lot more so I gave him my phone number & he was so happy.

I will never take man's traditions and put them above G-d's Torah or G-d's grace because I love G-d and I will keep His Commandments John 14:15

Let me read you two passages out of this week's Torah lesson which is Ex 25:1; God spoke to Moshe saying, speak to the children of Y'srael and let them "take" for Me a portion from every man whose heart "motivates" him you shall take my portion. That is not a command, that's willingness. Vs 8; they shall make a sanctuary for me, so that "I may dwell among them".

Now that's Command in the Torah, are our bodies the temple now, isn't that the same thing G-d asks of us today? Or is that binding?

Shabbat shalom
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Post Isa 58:12
& brad, you answer your own question with the title of this thread with the first example and Deut 28:1-13😏. Vs 1-2; and it shall come to pass, IF you will hearken diligently unto the voice of the L-rd your G-d, "to observe and to do" all His Commandments which I Command you this day, that the L-rd your G-d will set you on high above all nations of the Earth. Vs 2 and ALL these Blessings "shall" "come" "on" "you", and "overtake you" IF you will hearken unto the voice of the L-rd your G-d 😉
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Post Re: Isa, let me ask YOU a question... Resident Skeptic
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Post bradfreeman
Isa 58:12 wrote:
& brad, you answer your own question with the title of this thread with the first example and Deut 28:1-13😏. Vs 1-2; and it shall come to pass, IF you will hearken diligently unto the voice of the L-rd your G-d, "to observe and to do" all His Commandments which I Command you this day, that the L-rd your G-d will set you on high above all nations of the Earth. Vs 2 and ALL these Blessings "shall" "come" "on" "you", and "overtake you" IF you will hearken unto the voice of the L-rd your G-d 😉


Yes, that's what the Old Covenant says. Unfortunately, no one could keep all of those commands. Only Jesus fulfilled the Law and He is our righteousness. Now in Him we are blessed with every spiritual blessing in Heavenly places! Eph 1:3

The old covenant says: "If you can keep all the rules you'll be blessed."
The new covenant says: "If you believe, you ARE blessed."

Gal 3:9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.

Now isn't that a better covenant, based on better promises?!
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Post Isa 58:12
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
& brad, you answer your own question with the title of this thread with the first example and Deut 28:1-13😏. Vs 1-2; and it shall come to pass, IF you will hearken diligently unto the voice of the L-rd your G-d, "to observe and to do" all His Commandments which I Command you this day, that the L-rd your G-d will set you on high above all nations of the Earth. Vs 2 and ALL these Blessings "shall" "come" "on" "you", and "overtake you" IF you will hearken unto the voice of the L-rd your G-d 😉


Yes, that's what the Old Covenant says. Unfortunately, no one could keep all of those commands. Only Jesus fulfilled the Law and He is our righteousness. Now in Him we are blessed with every spiritual blessing in Heavenly places! Eph 1:3

The old covenant says: "If you can keep all the rules you'll be blessed."
The new covenant says: "If you believe, you ARE blessed."

Gal 3:9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.

Now isn't that a better covenant, based on better promises?!


brad, we have been over this, no one can do all of the Law. There are Laws for women that are different from the Laws of man, there are Laws for children, & raising children, there are Laws for married there laws for singles there a loss for farming there are laws for animals.....

If your farmer brad, do it like God said in his Instructions, Laws, if you're a man brad you don't have to keep the Laws for women. If you're married, you have to keep those laws, if you're single, keep those....

& The Bible doesn't say "if" u can keep My Rules, I t says "if you "keep" My Rules, not if u "can". Abraham kept He's Laws in Gen 25:1-5, vs 5; because that Abraham "obeyed" My voice, and kept My Charge, My Commandments, My statues, and My Laws... What laws you think those were? I'll help you there was an Oral Ones😉

& Yes, 100%, the New Covenant is based on better promises, not better Laws
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Post bradfreeman
Isa 58:12 wrote:
& Yes, 100%, the New Covenant is based on better promises, not better Laws


Laughing

Jesus new commandment (to love as He loves) is better than the old commandment (to love as we love ourselves).

The law of faith is better than the law of works.

The law of the Spirit of life in Christ is better than the law of sin and death.

The law of liberty is better than the law of bondage.

Laughing

A better covenant with better commandments written on our hearts!
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Post Isa 58:12
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
& Yes, 100%, the New Covenant is based on better promises, not better Laws


Laughing

Jesus new commandment (to love as He loves) is better than the old commandment (to love as we love ourselves).

The law of faith is better than the law of works.

The law of the Spirit of life in Christ is better than the law of sin and death.

The law of liberty is better than the law of bondage.

Laughing

A better covenant with better commandments written on our hearts!


Only one problem with your theology brad, the New Covenant was given to Y'sreal in Jerusalem 31:31-34, & G-d gave the Torah to Y'sreal Forever Isa 40:8. & Ur grafted into that Covenant whether you believe it or not Rom 11:17. Btw, another problem you have what Laws are written on your heart, and how many because there's no number on them.

Let me help you in the Torah to understand the New Covenant laws written on your heart. In Deut 11:18 G-d said; therefore shall "you" lay up these My Words in your heart and in your soul.....Prob 7:3(1-4) ; bind "them" upon your fingers, & write them upon the tables of your heart in the New Covenant G-d writes His Commandments on your heart, not a different set Commandments😶

Yes, by faith we keep his Commandments, not a legalistic form of keeping His Commandments through "your works" outside of Y'shua

Right again brad, the law of the Spirit (Rom 7:14) is better than the law of sin and death, Torahlessness....
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Post bradfreeman
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Only one problem with your theology brad, the New Covenant was given to Y'sreal in Jerusalem 31:31-34, & G-d gave the Torah to Y'sreal Forever Isa 40:8. & Ur grafted into that Covenant whether you believe it or not Rom 11:17. Btw, another problem you have what Laws are written on your heart, and how many because there's no number on them.


The true Jew, the true children of Abraham is the one who believes. That is the one who is grafted into Christ.

I don't have a problem with the laws written on my heart. The laws written on my heart minister life, freedom, faith, love and righteousness. They don't minister sin, curses, condemnation and death.

Why don't you explain 2 Cor 3 or Galatians 3 or Galatians 4 or Ephesians 3 or Colossians 2 or Romans 3 or Romans 4 or Romans 5 or Romans 6 or Romans 7 or Romans 8 or Hebrews 7 or Hebrews 8 or Hebrews 9 or Hebrews 10?
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Post Isa 58:12
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Only one problem with your theology brad, the New Covenant was given to Y'sreal in Jerusalem 31:31-34, & G-d gave the Torah to Y'sreal Forever Isa 40:8. & Ur grafted into that Covenant whether you believe it or not Rom 11:17. Btw, another problem you have what Laws are written on your heart, and how many because there's no number on them.


The true Jew, the true children of Abraham is the one who believes. That is the one who is grafted into Christ.

I don't have a problem with the laws written on my heart. The laws written on my heart minister life, freedom, faith, love and righteousness. They don't minister sin, curses, condemnation and death.

Why don't you explain 2 Cor 3 or Galatians 3 or Galatians 4 or Ephesians 3 or Colossians 2 or Romans 3 or Romans 4 or Romans 5 or Romans 6 or Romans 7 or Romans 8 or Hebrews 7 or Hebrews 8 or Hebrews 9 or Hebrews 10?


brad, you do have a problem with the laws cuz you don't understand them. If you understood him you wouldn't be saying all the stuff that you say now, & you wouldn't be twisting Paul's letters in your theology to make it work and it won't, not ever.

Wow that's all you want me to interpret 🙄, yeah I'm not going to do that, I probably already have answering all ur questions 😶
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Post bradfreeman
Isa 58:12 wrote:
brad, you do have a problem with the laws cuz you don't understand them. If you understood him you wouldn't be saying all the stuff that you say now, & you wouldn't be twisting Paul's letters in your theology to make it work and it won't, not ever.

Wow that's all you want me to interpret 🙄, yeah I'm not going to do that, I probably already have answering all ur questions 😶


I don't have any problem at all with the OT law when its used lawfully. However, the law is not for NT believers, it's for those under the law.

1 Tim 1:9 realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers

Rom 4:19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

Then a few verses later Paul makes it clear that we are not under law.

Rom 6:14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

So, the tutor no longer has anything to speak to us. We've experience Christ, the reality of all the law pictured and foreshadowed, the fulfillment of the law. There is no need for shadow worship. We've experience the substance, which is Christ.

Col 2:16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

The trouble is: You won't engage in any meaningful dialogue on key NT passages that deal with the role of the OT law in the life of NT believer.
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I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!

My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/
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2/19/18 5:39 am


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