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 I don't know Brad ... |
Mat |
I don't know Brad, but you've got to admire the OT method of dealing with adultery - kill the adulterers. No need for divorcing your unfaithful spouse and no question on who can remarry, or having to see the person your spouse cheated with ever again. That has some clarity to it, don't you think?
So "Isa 58:12" (the poster, not the scripture) is saying the Law is still in effect, and Jesus saved her because the Law was not being followed correctly. Is that what you're getting out of this?
The question I have is, can we kept the Law correctly? I would point to King David, as to the problem of the Law. We know he was a man after God's heart from the Bible, and that he received the promise that the Messiah would be his decedent and would "inherit" the Throne of David as King of Israel. Yet David was an adulterer (and a murderer) and he was caught in his sins by a righteous prophet and other witnesses. Why was he allowed to escape the Law? It does not seem fair or just, unless its one Law for Kings and another for the poor.
Romans chapter 7 (NIV) tells us:
1 Do you not know, brothers and sisters—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives? 2 For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him. 3 So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man.
4 So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For when we were in the realm of the flesh,[a] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.
So, when the Law is broken, somebody has got to die. Apparently, Jesus took the death to fulfill the Law so we can serve God in a "new way of the Spirit" and not be bound by the "old way of the written code."
Perhaps not even King David could fulfill the Law, but we all can be saved by grace!
Mat
PS A Jewish friend told me the definition of the Yiddish word "putz" some years ago (yes, a Jewish friend and yes this is a joke). A putz is a man who goes to a tailor and buys a fine suit that has two pairs of pants so it may be worn for many years. Shortly afterwards the putz burns a hole in the suit coat.
Now he told it better, but you have to hear it from a New York Jew to get the irony. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1979
2/20/18 8:51 am
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| Re: I don't know Brad ... |
bradfreeman |
| Mat wrote: | I don't know Brad, but you've got to admire the OT method of dealing with adultery - kill the adulterers. No need for divorcing your unfaithful spouse and no question on who can remarry, or having to see the person your spouse cheated with ever again. That has some clarity to it, don't you think?
So "Isa 58:12" (the poster, not the scripture) is saying the Law is still in effect, and Jesus saved her because the Law was not being followed correctly. Is that what you're getting out of this?
The question I have is, can we kept the Law correctly? I would point to King David, as to the problem of the Law. We know he was a man after God's heart from the Bible, and that he received the promise that the Messiah would be his decedent and would "inherit" the Throne of David as King of Israel. Yet David was an adulterer (and a murderer) and he was caught in his sins by a righteous prophet and other witnesses. Why was he allowed to escape the Law? It does not seem fair or just, unless its one Law for Kings and another for the poor.
Romans chapter 7 (NIV) tells us:
1 Do you not know, brothers and sisters—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives? 2 For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him. 3 So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man.
4 So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For when we were in the realm of the flesh,[a] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.
So, when the Law is broken, somebody has got to die. Apparently, Jesus took the death to fulfill the Law so we can serve God in a "new way of the Spirit" and not be bound by the "old way of the written code."
Perhaps not even King David could fulfill the Law, but we all can be saved by grace!
Mat
PS A Jewish friend told me the definition of the Yiddish word "putz" some years ago (yes, a Jewish friend and yes this is a joke). A putz is a man who goes to a tailor and buys a fine suit that has two pairs of pants so it may be worn for many years. Shortly afterwards the putz burns a hole in the suit coat.
Now he told it better, but you have to hear it from a New York Jew to get the irony. |
Well said.
_________________
I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/ |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
2/20/18 9:57 am
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| You know Brad ... |
Mat |
You know Brad, you and I see the "elephant" from different perspectives, but we seem to agree that the elephant being in the church is a problem.
Mat |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1979
2/20/18 11:11 am
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| Well said, I agree |
brotherjames |
meshugana is a better Yiddish word for I-A |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 935
2/20/18 1:36 pm
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| Re: I don't know Brad ... |
Isa 58:12 |
| Mat wrote: | I don't know Brad,
So "Isa 58:12" (the poster, not the scripture) is saying the Law is still in effect, and Jesus saved her because the Law was not being followed correctly. Is that what you're getting out of this?
The question I have is, can we kept the Law correctly?. |
Yes we can, only through Y'shua, can we do it, His Spirit will lead us into all Truths/Torah Ps 119:160. Messiah came to save us from our lawlessness, torahlessness, sins, because just like now, back then they fell away from the Word and changed it😮
_________________
Ps 122:6 Pray for the Peace of Y'erusalem |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo
Posts: 2547
2/20/18 11:50 pm
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| Re: I don't know Brad ... |
bradfreeman |
[quote="Isa 58:12"] | Mat wrote: | | Yes we can, only through Y'shua, can we do it, His Spirit will lead us into all Truths/Torah Ps 119:160. Messiah came to save us from our lawlessness, torahlessness, sins, because just like now, back then they fell away from the Word and changed it😮 |
Christ didn't come so we'd fulfill the Law. He came because we couldn't.
He came to fulfill the the Law for us. Now His righteousness is our righteousness. It is a gift we receive, not a condition we work for.
Rom 5:17 For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.
He saved us from our lawlessness by taking away the sin of the whole world and instituting a new covenant where our lawless deeds are remembered no more.
John 1:29 The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!
1 John 2:2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
Heb. 10:17 “And their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.â€
Just as Abraham was declared righteous apart from the law, we are.
Just as Abraham was blessed apart from the law, we are.
Just as Abraham believed that God would keep His promise, we believe God kept His promise in Christ.
Gen 15:6 Then he believed in the Lord; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness.
Now our faith brings us into righteousness and peace with God.
Rom 5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God.
We have peace with God.
He's not angry.
He's not disappointed.
He's not frustrated.
He's not upset.
He's at peace with us.
Everything about us that could anger, disappoint, frustrate or upset Him was laid on the body of Jesus and put away 2,000. This is the Good News (Gospel) we believe.
Heb 9:26 Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
Sin has been put away - not by our obedience to the Law, but by His sacrifice. Salvation doesn't rest in our strength or work, but in His strength and finished work.
_________________
I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/ |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
2/21/18 6:30 am
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| Re: I don't know Brad ... |
Isa 58:12 |
[quote="bradfreeman"] | Isa 58:12 wrote: | | Mat wrote: | | Yes we can, only through Y'shua, can we do it, His Spirit will lead us into all Truths/Torah Ps 119:160. Messiah came to save us from our lawlessness, torahlessness, sins, because just like now, back then they fell away from the Word and changed it😮 |
Christ didn't come so we'd fulfill the Law. He came because we couldn't.
He came to fulfill the the Law for us. Now His righteousness is our righteousness. It is a gift we receive, not a condition we work for.
Rom 5:17 For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.
He saved us from our lawlessness by taking away the sin of the whole world and instituting a new covenant where our lawless deeds are remembered no more.
John 1:29 The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!
1 John 2:2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
Heb. 10:17 “And their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.â€
Just as Abraham was declared righteous apart from the law, we are.
Just as Abraham was blessed apart from the law, we are.
Just as Abraham believed that God would keep His promise, we believe God kept His promise in Christ.
Gen 15:6 Then he believed in the Lord; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness.
Now our faith brings us into righteousness and peace with God.
Rom 5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God.
We have peace with God.
He's not angry.
He's not disappointed.
He's not frustrated.
He's not upset.
He's at peace with us.
Everything about us that could anger, disappoint, frustrate or upset Him was laid on the body of Jesus and put away 2,000. This is the Good News (Gospel) we believe.
Heb 9:26 Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
Sin has been put away - not by our obedience to the Law, but by His sacrifice. Salvation doesn't rest in our strength or work, but in His strength and finished work. |
This is it for me dude, but there is no scripture commanding us to fulfill the Law, or Messiah. He kept it to show His King ship & that would reveal who He is
And that's another problem you have, you look at God in the Old Testament as an angry G-d, and you see Y'shua as a loving piece free to be you and me hippie god, there are no rules except love that's not who He is
Ps 119:165; Great Shalom/Peace have they *that keep* the Law/Torah and *nothing* shall offend them. Not that verse right there contradicts everything you say about the Law
I hope you figure it out brad
_________________
Ps 122:6 Pray for the Peace of Y'erusalem |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo
Posts: 2547
2/21/18 2:29 pm
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| The use of the word "Torah" |
Mat |
The use of the word "Torah" as interchangeable with commandments/teachings is a little troubling to me. As I understand it, it is a restrictive term referring to the Law revealed to Moses found in the first five books of the Bible. It seems you are using in a expanded since. As an example, the Jehovah Witness have the practice of replacing other name of God with Jehovah, since they say that is the revealed name.
As a matter of fact, your use of a version of the name of Jesus is also reflected of this practice. If we don't say the only name where we might be saved just right, or in its (somewhat) Hebrew original, are we not saved?
If we are not careful we head down the road to Jewish Kabbaiah practice, as in you've got to chant the Torah in Hebrew, even if you don't understand what your saying, to be blessed.
Mat
PS Was Abraham a Hebrew and did he speak Hebrew? |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1979
2/21/18 4:03 pm
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| Re: I don't know Brad ... |
bradfreeman |
| Isa 58:12 wrote: |
Ps 119:165; Great Shalom/Peace have they *that keep* the Law/Torah and *nothing* shall offend them. Not that verse right there contradicts everything you say about the Law
I hope you figure it out brad |
Thanks. It's going to be extremely tough for you to figure it out when you keep relying a covenant that has been fulfilled and nailed to a cross as your basis for continuing in a covenant that has been fulfilled and nailed to a cross.
We are under a new covenant.
_________________
I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/ |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
2/21/18 4:12 pm
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| Re: The use of the word "Torah" |
Isa 58:12 |
| Mat wrote: | The use of the word "Torah" as interchangeable with commandments/teachings is a little troubling to me. As I understand it, it is a restrictive term referring to the Law revealed to Moses found in the first five books of the Bible. It seems you are using in a expanded since. As an example, the Jehovah Witness have the practice of replacing other name of God with Jehovah, since they say that is the revealed name.
There is no "J" on Hebrew, it is not His Name. But interestingly it is His Name YHVH with vowels in between. It would say YeHoVaH
As a matter of fact, your use of a version of the name of Jesus is also reflected of this practice. If we don't say the only name where we might be saved just right, or in its (somewhat) Hebrew original, are we not saved?
I have never said that, the way I see it the Bible says to pray in His Name & there's power in His Name, His Name is Y'shua not Jesus, that is a greek name. If you translate Y'shua into greek it translates as Savior
If we are not careful we head down the road to Jewish Kabbaiah practice, as in you've got to chant the Torah in Hebrew, even if you don't understand what your saying, to be blessed.
Mat
Lol, I am not kabbalistic lol, nor do I believe that nonsense
PS Was Abraham a Hebrew and did he speak Hebrew? |
_________________
Ps 122:6 Pray for the Peace of Y'erusalem |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo
Posts: 2547
2/21/18 5:20 pm
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| Re: I don't know Brad ... |
Isa 58:12 |
| bradfreeman wrote: | | Isa 58:12 wrote: |
Ps 119:165; Great Shalom/Peace have they *that keep* the Law/Torah and *nothing* shall offend them. Not that verse right there contradicts everything you say about the Law
I hope you figure it out brad |
Thanks. It's going to be extremely tough for you to figure it out when you keep relying a covenant that has been fulfilled and nailed to a cross as your basis for continuing in a covenant that has been fulfilled and nailed to a cross.
We are under a new covenant. |
Not really brad, as I have already spoken to u on Col 2, the "ordinances" nailed to the cross where men's, Col 2:4, 8, 14, 20-22: which all are to perish with the using comma after "the commandments and doctrines of *men*"🙄
_________________
Ps 122:6 Pray for the Peace of Y'erusalem |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo
Posts: 2547
2/21/18 5:26 pm
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| Re: The use of the word "Torah" |
Mat |
| Isa 58:12 wrote: | | Mat wrote: | The use of the word "Torah" as interchangeable with commandments/teachings is a little troubling to me. As I understand it, it is a restrictive term referring to the Law revealed to Moses found in the first five books of the Bible. It seems you are using in a expanded since. As an example, the Jehovah Witness have the practice of replacing other name of God with Jehovah, since they say that is the revealed name.
There is no "J" on Hebrew, it is not His Name. But interestingly it is His Name YHVH with vowels in between. It would say YeHoVaH
As a matter of fact, your use of a version of the name of Jesus is also reflected of this practice. If we don't say the only name where we might be saved just right, or in its (somewhat) Hebrew original, are we not saved?
I have never said that, the way I see it the Bible says to pray in His Name & there's power in His Name, His Name is Y'shua not Jesus, that is a greek name. If you translate Y'shua into greek it translates as Savior
If we are not careful we head down the road to Jewish Kabbaiah practice, as in you've got to chant the Torah in Hebrew, even if you don't understand what your saying, to be blessed.
Mat
Lol, I am not kabbalistic lol, nor do I believe that nonsense
PS Was Abraham a Hebrew and did he speak Hebrew? |
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I'm not sure, other than your reaction to Jewish Kabbaiah, that you answered my observations about the use of the word "Torah" or the name that saves.
Mat |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1979
2/21/18 8:28 pm
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| Re: I don't know Brad ... |
bradfreeman |
| Isa 58:12 wrote: | | Not really brad, as I have already spoken to u on Col 2, the "ordinances" nailed to the cross where men's, Col 2:4, 8, 14, 20-22: which all are to perish with the using comma after "the commandments and doctrines of *men*"🙄 |
Col 2:21 “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!†22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?
2 things are destined to perish - the commandments AND teachings of men.
The commandments given on Mt. Sinai were full of "Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch."
Col 2:13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, 14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
Do you actually think the man-made pharisaical traditions needed created transgressions and a certificate of debt that needed the atoning blood of Jesus?  He is speaking of the commandments that actually had the ability to created a debt we owed and transgressions that needed atonement.
Eph 2:14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, 15 by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, 16 and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity.
What Jesus "abolished" and "put to death" was the law of commandments that made a distinction or barrier between Jew from Gentile.
_________________
I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/ |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
2/22/18 7:12 am
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| Re: I don't know Brad ... |
Isa 58:12 |
| bradfreeman wrote: | | Isa 58:12 wrote: | | Not really brad, as I have already spoken to u on Col 2, the "ordinances" nailed to the cross where men's, Col 2:4, 8, 14, 20-22: which all are to perish with the using comma after "the commandments and doctrines of *men*"🙄 |
Col 2:21 “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!†22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?
2 things are destined to perish - the commandments AND teachings of men.
The commandments given on Mt. Sinai were full of "Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch."
Col 2:13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, 14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
Do you actually think the man-made pharisaical traditions needed created transgressions and a certificate of debt that needed the atoning blood of Jesus? He is speaking of the commandments that actually had the ability to created a debt we owed and transgressions that needed atonement.
Eph 2:14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, 15 by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, 16 and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity.
What Jesus "abolished" and "put to death" was the law of commandments that made a distinction or barrier between Jew from Gentile. |
Oh Adonai....ur like a train wreck brad, just can't turn my head with the nonsense that you're saying 😶. brad...... again, u are reading into Col 2 what u need it to say. Not sure what your denomination is, but I have my suspicions, but whatever they are you have teachings that you been taught for a very long time that you are not willing to let go.
You don't even add the verses I told you to add in Colossians 2:4,8,14,20. & Vs 22; which all are to perish with the using, after the commandments and doctrines of men. That is not a separate question they are linked
_________________
Ps 122:6 Pray for the Peace of Y'erusalem |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo
Posts: 2547
2/22/18 4:02 pm
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Isa 58:12 |
& I just realized, u have never answered my thread question brad, or anyone. Which Law/Commandment in the Torah ate binding?
Let me re-set this, it's real simple brad, "without using the NT, put down Laws that are binding from the OT
Thank you
_________________
Ps 122:6 Pray for the Peace of Y'erusalem |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo
Posts: 2547
2/22/18 9:25 pm
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| Re: The use of the word "Torah" |
Isa 58:12 |
| Mat wrote: | | Isa 58:12 wrote: | | Mat wrote: | The use of the word "Torah" as interchangeable with commandments/teachings is a little troubling to me. As I understand it, it is a restrictive term referring to the Law revealed to Moses found in the first five books of the Bible. It seems you are using in a expanded since. As an example, the Jehovah Witness have the practice of replacing other name of God with Jehovah, since they say that is the revealed name.
There is no "J" on Hebrew, it is not His Name. But interestingly it is His Name YHVH with vowels in between. It would say YeHoVaH
As a matter of fact, your use of a version of the name of Jesus is also reflected of this practice. If we don't say the only name where we might be saved just right, or in its (somewhat) Hebrew original, are we not saved?
I have never said that, the way I see it the Bible says to pray in His Name & there's power in His Name, His Name is Y'shua not Jesus, that is a greek name. If you translate Y'shua into greek it translates as Savior
If we are not careful we head down the road to Jewish Kabbaiah practice, as in you've got to chant the Torah in Hebrew, even if you don't understand what your saying, to be blessed.
Mat
Lol, I am not kabbalistic lol, nor do I believe that nonsense
PS Was Abraham a Hebrew and did he speak Hebrew? |
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I'm not sure, other than your reaction to Jewish Kabbaiah, that you answered my observations about the use of the word "Torah" or the name that saves.
Mat |
Very sorry mat, forgive me, let me show u something's about Torah. The meaning of Torah is "not" restricting @ all, & I'm sorry u have been taught that, but that's far away from the Truth. Torah doesn't really mean Law, it means more, it literally means Instructions or Teachings. Look @ these & let me know if they are to "restricting"
I'm not going to go to technical on this to confuse, but it has the meaning and look of an Archer shooting an arrow into a bullseye to hit the mark, which is what Torah is meant to do. Sin is missing the mark. You can do a study on this yourself, I think you would enjoy it
Some Words Torah is associated with in the Bible the giving of the 10 Words/Commandments, this would be G-ds *Way* for His children to walk in. Ex 33:13; now therefore, I pray You, if I have found Grace in Your sight, show me now Your *Way* that I may know You, that I may find Grace in Your sight, I consider that this nation is Your people. G-ds *Way* to know Him is through His 10 Words which outline the rest of the Commandments. Which is His mind & heart on things. Isa 30:21; and your ears shall hear a Word behind you, saying, this is the *Way*, walk you in it when you turn to the right hand, and when you turn to the left
Another Word in the Bible is in Deut 32:4; He is the Rock, His work is Perfect (Ps 18:30, 19:7,11), for all His "Ways" are Judgment, a G-d of *Truth* and without an equity, Just & Right is He. Ps 119:30; I have chosen the "Way" of *Truth*, Your Judgments have I laid before me. The Word *Truth* means Torah, it's G-ds "Way"😉
Another Word for Torah in the Bible is found in Deut 30:19; I call Heaven and Earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you *Life* and death, blessings and cursings therefore choose *Life* that both you and your seed may live. Prov 12:28; in the "Way" of Righteousness is *Life*, and in the Pathway there of There is no death. So when we hit the mark by keeping G-d's Instructions for Life, Torah as u see in the Torah & Prophets have the same veiw opposite of how u have been taught on the Law of Moshe..
But wait, those 3 Words that describe the Law of Moshe/Torah/Instructions, etc, could I find those same 3 words in the New Testament describing Torah/Law of Moshe, Way/Truth/Life 🤔
John 14:6 Y'shua says; I Am the *Way*, The *Truth*, & the *Life*, no man comes to the Father but by Me ðŸ˜ðŸ˜‡
I hope that helps a bit, also others that refer to Torah & Y'shua: Word-Deut 5:5, Righteousness-Deut 6:25, Right-Deut 13:18, Good-Deut 1:14, Just-Deut 16:18, Blessed-Ps 119:1, Light-Ps 119:105, Perfect-Ps 18:30, (Just, Right, Lawful = Ezek 18:4-9) there are alot more, well when you read the Bible and you see these Words is very important to "Understand" (Prov ch 1-4) the meaning of them and what it is talking of
Well hope that wasn't too long, Shalom
_________________
Ps 122:6 Pray for the Peace of Y'erusalem |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo
Posts: 2547
2/22/18 10:55 pm
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| You're a little short on ... |
Mat |
You're a little short on New Testament scriptures there "Isa..". As to John 14:6, I will agree that Jesus is the embodiment of all truth, that through him we have life and he is the way to heaven. I contend that Jesus in our lives transforms us into the tabernacle (Temple) of God, rendering the stones of the Jerusalem Temple useless. The Old Testament, even the Law of Moses, spoke of a better covenant to come, I am of that covenant - the New Covenant.
Do you contend that the writer of Hebrews got it wrong? That Jesus is not our Sabbath everyday, that the Law, with its sacrifices, could not please God or cover our sins, and that we Gentile believers are not under the bondage of the Old Covenant to be saved and have eternal life?
Do you believe the writers of the New Testament got it wrong when they used Greek instead of Hebrew? Are you saying the only revealed Name where we might be saved is the Hebrew version (that you kind of use) "Y'shua"?
The more you push, the more I want to run away for being entrapped by Jewish custom. Also, I would suggest you are influenced by the more recent Eastern European expression of the Diaspora then the historic Judaism of the time of Christ, or even the purer expression of the Law as found in the wilderness.
Mat |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1979
2/23/18 8:06 am
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| Re: You're a little short on ... |
Isa 58:12 |
| Mat wrote: | You're a little short on New Testament scriptures there "Isa..". As to John 14:6, I will agree that Jesus is the embodiment of all truth, that through him we have life and he is the way to heaven. I contend that Jesus in our lives transforms us into the tabernacle (Temple) of God, rendering the stones of the Jerusalem Temple useless. The Old Testament, even the Law of Moses, spoke of a better covenant to come, I am of that covenant - the New Covenant.
Do you contend that the writer of Hebrews got it wrong? That Jesus is not our Sabbath everyday, that the Law, with its sacrifices, could not please God or cover our sins, and that we Gentile believers are not under the bondage of the Old Covenant to be saved and have eternal life?
Do you believe the writers of the New Testament got it wrong when they used Greek instead of Hebrew? Are you saying the only revealed Name where we might be saved is the Hebrew version (that you kind of use) "Y'shua"?
The more you push, the more I want to run away for being entrapped by Jewish custom. Also, I would suggest you are influenced by the more recent Eastern European expression of the Diaspora then the historic Judaism of the time of Christ, or even the purer expression of the Law as found in the wilderness.
Mat |
Shalom mat, I have asked the L-rd how I should answer u because of ur last comment about the more I push the more u want to run away being trapped by Jewish customs. I know how you been taught, & I just want you to know, I'm not pushing you or anyone into any Jewish customs
The fact is, you do a lot of Jewish Customs right now and you don't even know it. Being baptized is very Jewish, since G-d gave to them 1st. Tithing is very Jewish, G-d told them to do it 1st. Ur Bible is a Jewish Word, everyone who wrote it we're Jewish. Ur Savior & mine was a Jewish Rabbi Who died that we mighty be saved
It's a Jewish faith we are grafted into Rom 11:17, He us the King of the Jews, & that's exactly how He's coming back to set up His Kingdom on the earth from Jerusalem. I'm very sorry how u have been taught about the faith, but it is nothing like Him
I have taught no Jewish customs, I have just explained things that are G-d's that He gave to the Jews, the family we are grafted into & become fellow citizens Eph 2:19-20. & The new Covenant is based on better Promises, not new Laws
& I don't have a problem with the writer of Hebrews, & he wasn't wrong, the way it's been taught is wrong. I will give you an example. In the Bible, if "A" has been taught as if it is true & only a few verses "seem" to agree, but doesn't agree with "B" that has abundant versus that go against "A" then "B" is correct. Paul never said anything against Y'shua who never said anything against Torah either.
I have heard certain people on here tell me that the Law was "impossible" for us to do that's why Y'shua had to come because we couldn't do it. But that's incorrect, maybe you'll be the first to show me in the Laws which one we can't do
Was it the Sabbath? What's so hard about keeping the Sabbath, you keep Sunday right is it hard? And Messiah didn't replace the Sabbath day He is the Sabbath, we rest in Y'shua on the Sabbath day which is an Everlasting Covenant in Ex 31:15-16.
And what's wrong with eating correctly? U c, it's not the Torah/Law that's the problem it's us, our flesh fights against the Spirit Rom 8:7. It's how we perceive what the Law is, or what we "think" the Law says. When we do away with our thinking, we quickly see that that was the problem, us. We want the Bible to say what want, not G-d
Shalom
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Ps 122:6 Pray for the Peace of Y'erusalem |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo
Posts: 2547
2/24/18 8:14 pm
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| Re: You're a little short on ... |
bradfreeman |
| Isa 58:12 wrote: | | I have taught no Jewish customs, I have just explained things that are G-d's that He gave to the Jews, the family we are grafted into & become fellow citizens Eph 2:19-20. |
Read in context, Eph 2:19-20, does not stand for the proposition that we have been grafted into the Jews. Christ abolished the system that separated Jew from Gentile by nailing the "law of commandments" to the cross. He made "one new man." In fact, natural Jews (Rom 2:28,29) and the Jerusalem that now is (Gal 4:25), are not the household of faith. We have been grafted into the household of faith and are the children of Abraham.
Eph 2:14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, 15 by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, 16 and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity. 17 And He came and preached peace to you who were far away, and peace to those who were near; 18 for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household,
Gal 3:25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.
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I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/ |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
2/25/18 3:16 pm
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| Re: You're a little short on ... |
Isa 58:12 |
| bradfreeman wrote: | | Isa 58:12 wrote: | | I have taught no Jewish customs, I have just explained things that are G-d's that He gave to the Jews, the family we are grafted into & become fellow citizens Eph 2:19-20. |
Read in context, Eph 2:19-20, does not stand for the proposition that we have been grafted into the Jews. Christ abolished the system that separated Jew from Gentile by nailing the "law of commandments" to the cross. He made "one new man." In fact, natural Jews (Rom 2:28,29) and the Jerusalem that now is (Gal 4:25), are not the household of faith. We have been grafted into the household of faith and are the children of Abraham.
Eph 2:14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, 15 by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, 16 and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity. 17 And He came and preached peace to you who were far away, and peace to those who were near; 18 for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household,
Gal 3:25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise. |
No sir, were else do u c the words " ordinances" & "commandments"? Col 2:4, 8, 14, 20-22. The Law is a Covenant/Promise that cannot be broken or removed, or G-d to be a liar and double-minded. To Hats not the G-d I serve
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Ps 122:6 Pray for the Peace of Y'erusalem |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo
Posts: 2547
2/25/18 4:04 pm
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