Actscelerate.com

Mark Ledbetter

I am publicly posting what I sent Isa 58:12 in private:

Golf Cart Mafia Associate Posts: 2109 **2/7/18 8:16 pm**

Enough.

Years ago when I was first introduced to the internet and AOL was the server of choice, I engaged in conversations on a Jewish forum.

Many "Christians" went to the forum to "witness" and they encounter angry responses and were labeled with contempt as "missionaries."

I sent personal messages to the them and reminded them it is our responsibility to provoke them to jealousy rather than anger.

I asked them to prayerfully consider their approach. I do the same now with you.

If you are sincere about rebuilding ancient ruins and raising up age-old foundations, to be known as a repairer of the breach and restorer of the paths, then you must change you attitude and actions.

If you don't, then you will undermine any effort and, unless Isa 58:12 is a ruse, then your labor is in vain and you actually ruin the hopes of truly seeing Jew and Gentile united as one man in Yeshua HaMashiach.

I've sent this to you personally, and I will post it publicly.

I am truly sorry, not for you alone, but for others who you have inflamed with your posts. The damage my be irreparable.

Shalom!
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Christ-Centered
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Dave Dorsey

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 13654 **2/7/18 8:35 pm**

Mark, I appreciate your heart in posting this, and in sharing it both with him and with us. I appreciate the compassion that is clear in your heart. And your reference to the personal messages you sent to the Christians on the other forum are germane here as well. Israel's trespass brought salvation to the Gentiles so as to make Israel jealous. And Paul said that he magnified his ministry to the Gentiles in order that he might make his fellow Jews jealous, so that he might save some of them. That is the goal; not anger, as you have said.

I'm not convinced Isa is actually a Jew; I believe he may be a very deceived Gentile. If he is a Jew, then it is the command of Scripture that I (and others) not be arrogant toward the branch that has been broken off. And if he is a Gentile, then we are commanded to live peaceably with all, so far as it depends on us, and to give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all. Your words are well received, at least by me.

Nonetheless, I have to take significant issue with one thing that you said. I'm really having trouble processing the claim that one man could ruin the hopes of seeing Jew and Gentile united. God has not rejected His people whom he foreknew; and while a partial hardening has come upon Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in, it is in this very way that all Israel will be saved. I do not understand what this means, but the Scripture says it is so. It is clear God is not done with Israel. It is clear that just as the Gentiles now receive mercy because of Israel's disobedience, so Israel too has now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to the Gentiles they also may receive mercy. God has consigned all to disobedience -- that HE may have mercy on all.

I am trying to understand the notion that any human could act to unite Israel and Gentile in Christ, and I am trying to understand the notion that any human could foil God's work in this regard. Perhaps I am misunderstanding what you said, and I hope that is the case, but I cannot comprehend why this hope would exist as anything but a certain expectation of Christ, nor why anyone would be able to confound what He has determined to do. Hoping you can help me out.

Dave Dorsey

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 13654 **2/7/18 8:57 pm**

Mark, is it possible I misunderstood you and what you are actually saying is closer to, "Don't act in a way that destroys the unity that Jesus died for?" If so, I think I understand, and your words are a valuable caution to all.

Isa 58:12

Golf Cart Mafia Capo Posts: 2547 **2/7/18 9:14 pm**

Shalom Mark, I thanked u for this in a response & u thank you here. & If I have angered anyone here I ask for forgiveness
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Ps 122:6 Pray for the Peace of Y'erusalem

Isa 58:12

Again

Golf Cart Mafia Capo Posts: 2547 **2/7/18 9:47 pm**

Thanks Mark, for bringing this to my attention. I'm just a little confused of how you were talking about my actions and my attitude. I wasn't upset with anybody any time ever. I just shared scripture with people in all text of the Bible. People can do what they want they can accept it or not, study it out more or whatever.

I've reread this and I reread this & bothered, & you said I've flamed people here with my words. Mark, I just use the scriptures... Did I get irritated sometimes? Sure, but I prayed, re-gathered myself and came back just fine smiling not bothered because of Psalms 119:165

So again, if anybody got upset if I said something out of line please forgive me.
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Ps 122:6 Pray for the Peace of Y'erusalem

Mark Ledbetter

Dave, some parting thoughts.

Golf Cart Mafia Associate Posts: 2109 **2/7/18 11:17 pm**

The remark to which you allude regarding the unity of Jew and Gentile is intended to address the purpose of the posts by Isa 58:12.

If his/her intent is to bring unity to Jew and Gentile, that certainly hasn't been the case.

If the intent is like some others who post, to "school" the others, then the post could be, might be, construed to convey an elitist who speaks in condescending, patronizing terms belittling others for their "ignorance."

More than one poster here on Acts come across this way.

There is a time for public rebuke and to call out heretics, but there is also place for speaking the truth in love.

Frankly, it gets old, however, and this is the reason I leave the board for a season only to return to find the same themes discussed over and over with the same tired, worn pet themes that are repeated over and over, and interjected in such a fashion to present unbalanced positions.

Some of the rhetoric used in response to Isa 58:12 smacks of the same thought espoused by Constantine which not only denounced and renounced anything remotely Jewish, but served as fodder for those who persecuted the Jews. They worry about a Judaizer influencing unsuspecting readers when their own language is close to anti-Semitic and anti-Israel.

Through the years, some have taken issue on my position regarding the Law, a subject I posted in response to your question regarding my endorsement of Isa 58:12's right to post; but as my post revealed, unlike some, I post a balanced position on the purpose and value of the Law.

In the 80s I became curious and began studying the Gospels and Apostolic Writings through the lens of 1st-century Judaism. The results were amazing. Among the things I discovered is the tendency to stereotype Jews of the 1st-century through anachronistic positions and the tendency to actually, and at times deliberately misinterpret and apply Scriptures.

When we recast Jesus - His life, His ways, and His words in a Greek worldview that is consistently foreign to the Semitic mindset, then problems arise. We want to make Jesus fit our cultural values to justify our lifestyles. It is the same for the Apostles as well.

We concern ourselves with theology but Jesus nor the Apostles were theologians. Their mind wasn't set on proving and explaining God but declaring this is what God said and this is how we can conform to those things that please Him. I am sure many will take me to task for the following, but the Apostolic Writings were commentary on the Teachings of Jesus. They weren't innovative - such would undermine the Cause of Christ.

We argue over a host of thoughts and doctrine but fail to see the "Lie" that has permeated both pulpit and pew - HUMANISM, and the other isms' it has spawned.

We've allowed our churches to reflect 5 of the 7 churches of Revelations 2 & 3. We are proud of our doctrinal discussions and determinations but have lost our first passion, our first love.

We've allowed paganism to dictate our worship and morals.

We've created an appearance of being alive with our programs and multi-campus facilities, and yet we are inwardly dead - even though we have churches that are full.

We've deceived ourselves into thinking we're doing great, in need of nothing, but the things we once prayed through for, labored for, we now can purchase without prayer, build our cathedrals without prayer, plan our programs without prayer, and we are really wretched, blind, and naked.

It is easy to label others who may appear to disagree, to belittle. Years past I was banned because some didn't appreciate sarcasm and/or satire.

If I ever post again, be assured I will have every i dotted and t crossed.

It's been real! But it is no longer fun.
_________________
God-Honoring
Christ-Centered
Bible-Based
Spirit-Led
(This is how I want to be)

Belieber

Hey, DOC Posts: 50 **2/7/18 11:29 pm**

Removed: Unkindness (DD)

Carolyn Smith

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 5910 **2/8/18 12:12 am**

Mark - I wish you wouldn't leave us. One of the voices of truth and reason left. Sad

Your comments are balanced and give us a clearer understanding of things relating to Judaism.

But I understand the "not fun" part, too. *sigh* Be blessed...and do come back sometime, please!
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