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Resurrecting the Sunday night service ?
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Post Resurrecting the Sunday night service ? Da Sheik
After meeting with the elders and deacons last night, I discovered there is strong support for bringing Sunday night services back. I know that it sounds unspiritual, but I was the only one present not in favor. We are going to do research over the next month and then revisit the issue at our next meeting.

I have mentioned before that we have two services on Sunday morning. This has been a source of frustration for me. Our facility could easily accommodate one combined service. Its supposed to be an “early service” and the “11 o’clock service “. But it has long been the contemporary vs the traditional service. Style differences prohibit the combination of the two. Our traditional service is mostly middle-aged to seniors. I have no doubt they are the ones lobbying for bringing back Sunday night services.

I’m not angry but these guys (and I’m a senior myself ) frustrate me. They are the ones demanding they have their own traditional service, and now they want another one at night. I am highly doubtful that any of those who attend the 8:45 am service have any desire for an evening service. This church has not observed Sunday evening services since 2004 (before my tenure here ).
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Post UncleJD
I honestly miss the fellowship I once felt with those services and the follow-up meal together at the local DQ or whatever. I know "small groups" are supposed to do the same thing, but "meh" ....

To your point though, I don't think having the seniors in their own separate service is good at all for the Body
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Post Brandon Bowers
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Post Cojak
I think everyone here understands your dilemma. At my age I would never vote to bring it back especially if it has been THAT long since a Sunday nite service. Very few churches have a strong Sunday night service. Our home church that runs around 100 in worship must push to have 12-18 there on Sunday night. I know our (just retired) pastor wanted to drop it but was afraid of the fall out. Tough decision my friend.

Sometimes us old folk can be very stubborn. Wink Smile
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Post Dave Dorsey
I've seen enough of your posts on this forum to know you are a very thoughtful, considerate person. I suspect you have forgotten considerably more about ministry than I know. I also know you've posted about your two service dynamic in the past and I know you've thought a lot about it. I don't suspect I'll tell you anything you haven't already considered. But with those caveats said...

1) You don't have two services, you have two churches. If there is both a defined style and generation gap between the two congregations, it's two bodies and not one.

2) Your middle-aged folks and seniors are sinning against your contemporary congregation. In my very young years (20s) I would have been happy to have the seniors sequestered. In my less young years (30s) I have, by God's grace, come to recognize the paramount importance of older saints living among, leading, and imaging a mature faith to the younger.

3) It's reasonable to ask the seniors to endure some more contemporary songs for the sake of the younger generations, but for the most part, I think the younger generation should be exposed to the more traditional songs that the older folks prefer. These are, for the most part, songs that have withstood the test of time because of their theological depth. It is very nice (in my opinion) to hear and sing traditional lyrics in a more contemporary style, but I would rather sing theologically rich lyrics to an organ and choir than theologically shallow lyrics accompanied by a contemporary style. A potential compromise could be to have the older generation's songs performed, at times, in a more contemporary style.

4) The main problem isn't that the old folks won't accept the younger style, it's that the young folks won't accept the older style. Therefore, the main problem will not go away when the old folks die. Their needs and their style will die with them, but the same problem will exist in the younger service -- a congregation that to some degree perfers contemporary music over theological depth, and doesn't have the example of older saints. That's the most significant problem, in my opinion, that has to be fixed when a church is divided like this one. The problem is with the young folks (point #2 aside), not the old folks, so it won't go away when they die, it will just be even harder to fix because a potential corrective influence will be gone.

5) Until this division is addressed and resolved, it's not even worth thinking about a Sunday night service.

Those are my ignorant thoughts, full of baseless youthful confidence, about your situation. You have my empathy, because I know from your past posts you have thought about this situation at length and have desired to fix it. I suspect the "how" is what you're missing and I don't know it either. I just wanted to take a second to hopefully encourage you from the vantage point of a young person that this issue needs to be fixed one way or another, not for the sake of the older generation, but for the sake of the younger. It is imperative for the future of any church that the younger generations receive witness and instruction from the older generations before they go home.
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2/6/18 7:09 pm


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Post revuriah
UncleJD wrote:
I honestly miss the fellowship I once felt with those services and the follow-up meal together at the local DQ or whatever. I know "small groups" are supposed to do the same thing, but "meh" ....

To your point though, I don't think having the seniors in their own separate service is good at all for the Body


Small groups aren’t supposed to do what Sunday nights did. They are not church on a smaller scale. Small groups are about community and support. They are about discipleship and growth. Real growth doesn’t happen in pews so much as in circles, as I’ve heard it said.
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Post diakoneo
Dave Dorsey wrote:
I've seen enough of your posts on this forum to know you are a very thoughtful, considerate person. I suspect you have forgotten considerably more about ministry than I know. I also know you've posted about your two service dynamic in the past and I know you've thought a lot about it. I don't suspect I'll tell you anything you haven't already considered. But with those caveats said...

1) You don't have two services, you have two churches. If there is both a defined style and generation gap between the two congregations, it's two bodies and not one.

2) Your middle-aged folks and seniors are sinning against your contemporary congregation. In my very young years (20s) I would have been happy to have the seniors sequestered. In my less young years (30s) I have, by God's grace, come to recognize the paramount importance of older saints living among, leading, and imaging a mature faith to the younger.

3) It's reasonable to ask the seniors to endure some more contemporary songs for the sake of the younger generations, but for the most part, I think the younger generation should be exposed to the more traditional songs that the older folks prefer. These are, for the most part, songs that have withstood the test of time because of their theological depth. It is very nice (in my opinion) to hear and sing traditional lyrics in a more contemporary style, but I would rather sing theologically rich lyrics to an organ and choir than theologically shallow lyrics accompanied by a contemporary style. A potential compromise could be to have the older generation's songs performed, at times, in a more contemporary style.

4) The main problem isn't that the old folks won't accept the younger style, it's that the young folks won't accept the older style. Therefore, the main problem will not go away when the old folks die. Their needs and their style will die with them, but the same problem will exist in the younger service -- a congregation that to some degree perfers contemporary music over theological depth, and doesn't have the example of older saints. That's the most significant problem, in my opinion, that has to be fixed when a church is divided like this one. The problem is with the young folks (point #2 aside), not the old folks, so it won't go away when they die, it will just be even harder to fix because a potential corrective influence will be gone.

5) Until this division is addressed and resolved, it's not even worth thinking about a Sunday night service.

Those are my ignorant thoughts, full of baseless youthful confidence, about your situation. You have my empathy, because I know from your past posts you have thought about this situation at length and have desired to fix it. I suspect the "how" is what you're missing and I don't know it either. I just wanted to take a second to hopefully encourage you from the vantage point of a young person that this issue needs to be fixed one way or another, not for the sake of the older generation, but for the sake of the younger. It is imperative for the future of any church that the younger generations receive witness and instruction from the older generations before they go home.


Some pretty good thoughts, right there! Smile
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Post If you stop, its almost impossible to start back. skinnybishop
I believe I can speak to this situation, since I had a very similar experience. In 2007, I was appointed to a divided congregation. We only had one service, at 10:30 AM, and tired to mix traditional music with contemporary.

Not long after I came, members of the church and pastor's council began to lobby for a return to Sunday night services. The proponents of this move assured me that "everyone" wanted to have evening services, so I agreed. Big mistake.

Only about 25-30% of the people came back for evening service. Musicians wouldn't come back. Sound people wouldn't come back. Praise Team members wouldn't come back. I never knew who, or what I was going to have, in order to execute the worship service. Interestingly, some of the loudest proponents, were the most lax in their attendance.

I think resuming Sunday night is a mistake, based on my direct experience.
If you are lucky, 30% of your congregation will come back. With that number in mind, consider:

1. The church will have to run power, water, heat/air, etc.
2. The church will have to be staffed (music, sound, nursery, ushers)
3. You will have to prepare another sermon
4. What will that evening service accomplish?

To me....I said to ME.....Its likely that those who attend Sunday pm service are already saved. They are probably well established Christians. They probably went to the morning service. That is a lot of effort, just to preach to the choir.

I've heard every reason in the book, to have Sunday night and none of them hold water:

"We might get some visitors" (Not likely on Sunday night)
"We might get some people, whose churches don't have Sunday PM" (Uh...No, those folks are on the lake)
"Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy" (Really? What'd you do from 1:00-5:30)

Look, I know anything is possible. But clearly you don't feel good about resuming pm service. My suggestion? Make Sunday night a prayer service. No singing. No devotion. Just prayer. After a month, see what the evening attendance is.
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Post Try This Concept First FG Minister
Resume Sunday nights for prayer only. Have prayer requests typed up and available at the door. Have people come and pray from 6-7pm. Do this for 8 weeks. Track the attendance - which will be pitiful (30+ years as a pastor talking).

Go back to your leaders and tell them "if we can't get more than ___ to come out to pray, then why should we be offering a full worship service. Remember, if we have a full service, we will need musicians, singers, ushers, sound guy, nursery workers, and other volunteers. It will take at least 15-20 volunteers for a full service and we only had an average of ___ for prayer meetings."

The matter will die and you look more spiritual than the rest.
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2/7/18 9:37 am


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Post i find this topic interesting wayne
Our church is now 10 years old and in all that time, we have had a Sunday night service. I was advised by a CoG official to do away with our Sunday night services and I responded that my congregation would kill me.
Our Sunday night services have an average attendance of 100 and we have had numerous people thank us for continuing them. We have had many visitors, visit for the first time on Sunday nights and decide to come back.
I know most congregations have 2 morning services and combine their numbers but, I have never done this(maybe, I should). We continue these services because people still attend them.

George Moxley made a comment to me about our churches. Whenever he is with a Pastor who is looking to grow their church, he advises them to be open(office hours) as often as possible. I monitor the large churches in our area and they are open(office hours) and have service more often than any CoG in our area. I really think we are missing something.
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2/7/18 12:35 pm


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Post Da Sheik
I appreciate all the feedback here. Most of you echo the thoughts I already have/feel about the subject. Time and experience tell me that this service will not be well-attended, regardless of this recent surge of interest. As much as I hate to say it, the problem lies with the people my age. The youth are more than willing to combine, but the traditionalists don't want electric guitars, drums, and keyboards. They want their organ, piano, full choir, and nothing but the old hymns. As you might imagine, most of the financial support for the church comes from the older folks (just keeping it real!).

I may flip things and say I will only agree if the contemporary praise band leads the worship for the evening service Twisted Evil

One thing is for sure. My predecessor, as great as he was, led this church into this divided situation. I do not intend to leave this problem for my successor. I have tried for years to use Sunday School as a bridge between the two groups. We have a thriving Sunday School program. But the problem is that the classes are divided into the same groups.
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2/7/18 3:03 pm


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Post Re: i find this topic interesting skinnybishop
wayne wrote:
Our church is now 10 years old and in all that time, we have had a Sunday night service. I was advised by a CoG official to do away with our Sunday night services and I responded that my congregation would kill me.
Our Sunday night services have an average attendance of 100 and we have had numerous people thank us for continuing them. We have had many visitors, visit for the first time on Sunday nights and decide to come back.
I know most congregations have 2 morning services and combine their numbers but, I have never done this(maybe, I should). We continue these services because people still attend them.

George Moxley made a comment to me about our churches. Whenever he is with a Pastor who is looking to grow their church, he advises them to be open(office hours) as often as possible. I monitor the large churches in our area and they are open(office hours) and have service more often than any CoG in our area. I really think we are missing something.


If it ain't broke, there is no need to fix it!

Personally, over the past 14 years, I've had little success with PM services. My current church still has one, but to be honest, its not good. You can feel the lethargy in the building. I don't think people want to be there.....but they feel like they are supposed to be there. It is as if people feel, "We have to do this, or else we'll be caving, compromising, etc"

I'm not against Sunday night......if it is working for you, go for it! Blessings.
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Last edited by skinnybishop on 2/7/18 4:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post Re: i find this topic interesting Resident Skeptic
wayne wrote:
Our church is now 10 years old and in all that time, we have had a Sunday night service. I was advised by a CoG official to do away with our Sunday night services and I responded that my congregation would kill me.
Our Sunday night services have an average attendance of 100 and we have had numerous people thank us for continuing them. We have had many visitors, visit for the first time on Sunday nights and decide to come back.
I know most congregations have 2 morning services and combine their numbers but, I have never done this(maybe, I should). We continue these services because people still attend them.

George Moxley made a comment to me about our churches. Whenever he is with a Pastor who is looking to grow their church, he advises them to be open(office hours) as often as possible. I monitor the large churches in our area and they are open(office hours) and have service more often than any CoG in our area. I really think we are missing something.


Pentecostal churches that still have a lively Sunday night service are afforded the opportunity of reciveing vistors from non-Pentecostal churches who are hungry for a deeper experience with the Lord. However, not every church can or should adopt this format.
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Last edited by Resident Skeptic on 2/8/18 12:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post Re: i find this topic interesting wayne
Resident Skeptic wrote:
wayne wrote:
Our church is now 10 years old and in all that time, we have had a Sunday night service. I was advised by a CoG official to do away with our Sunday night services and I responded that my congregation would kill me.
Our Sunday night services have an average attendance of 100 and we have had numerous people thank us for continuing them. We have had many visitors, visit for the first time on Sunday nights and decide to come back.
I know most congregations have 2 morning services and combine their numbers but, I have never done this(maybe, I should). We continue these services because people still attend them.

George Moxley made a comment to me about our churches. Whenever he is with a Pastor who is looking to grow their church, he advises them to be open(office hours) as often as possible. I monitor the large churches in our area and they are open(office hours) and have service more often than any CoG in our area. I really think we are missing something.


Pentecostal cjurches that still have a lively Sunday night service are afforded the opportunity of reciveing vistors from non-Pentecostal churches who are hungry for a deeper experience with the Lord. However, not every church can or should adopt this format.


to be honest, most of our visitors are new or new to the area. we are having an influx of former Catholics. Our church is right of I-75 and sometimes they are truck drivers. I'm pretty sure we are beyond the point of other Pentecostals trying us out, at least I hope so.
Truly our PM service is and has been working pretty well.
I was told once, that if you stop having Sunday PM services you will never be able to get them back. We will ride this train for as long as we can.
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Post bradfreeman
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Post Old Time Country Preacher
UncleJD wrote:
I don't think having the seniors in their own separate service is good at all for the Body



Yep, same thing goes fer youth and young'uns too.
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Post Nathan_Headrick
I'm not saying that Sunday Night Services will work in all areas. I have pastored in areas where I wished we could do away with them and we should have done away with them. I have pastored in places that didn't have them when I got there, several people asked that they be brought back, they worked for a while and we ended up doing away with them again.
But where I pastor now, they did not have Sunday Night Services when I got here. I had a few people ask about them and I was, honestly, very reluctant to start them back. But we tried. The first two or three months were tough. Very few people. I advised the church that we were going to try them one more month (we were only doing them one night a month). That lit a fire.
We are not a large church. Right now on Sunday Mornings we average between 40 and 50. But our Sunday Nights are well attended now and are very powerful. In fact, two weeks ago we had 43 on Sunday Morning, 45 on Sunday Night, and 47 on Wednesday Night.
Earlier I read a post that said you wouldn't likely get visitors on Sunday Nights. That may be the case in some places. However, we have seen many first time guests on Sunday Nights and many have continued coming to the church for Sunday Mornings. Some only come on Sunday Nights, when their home churches aren't having service. We don't try to "steal them away" but just welcome them as we would anybody.
We are currently doing Sunday Night service on the 2nd and 4th Sundays of the month. The 1st Sunday Night my wife leads a Lady's Bible Study that has a pot-luck meal and study time. It is also well attended. We take the 3rd Sunday Night and 5th Sunday Night off.
Again, not saying this works everywhere. But we have seen a lot of our growth from having the Sunday Night services and it works well for us.
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Post skinnybishop
Nathan_Headrick wrote:
I'm not saying that Sunday Night Services will work in all areas. I have pastored in areas where I wished we could do away with them and we should have done away with them. I have pastored in places that didn't have them when I got there, several people asked that they be brought back, they worked for a while and we ended up doing away with them again.
But where I pastor now, they did not have Sunday Night Services when I got here. I had a few people ask about them and I was, honestly, very reluctant to start them back. But we tried. The first two or three months were tough. Very few people. I advised the church that we were going to try them one more month (we were only doing them one night a month). That lit a fire.
We are not a large church. Right now on Sunday Mornings we average between 40 and 50. But our Sunday Nights are well attended now and are very powerful. In fact, two weeks ago we had 43 on Sunday Morning, 45 on Sunday Night, and 47 on Wednesday Night.
Earlier I read a post that said you wouldn't likely get visitors on Sunday Nights. That may be the case in some places. However, we have seen many first time guests on Sunday Nights and many have continued coming to the church for Sunday Mornings. Some only come on Sunday Nights, when their home churches aren't having service. We don't try to "steal them away" but just welcome them as we would anybody.
We are currently doing Sunday Night service on the 2nd and 4th Sundays of the month. The 1st Sunday Night my wife leads a Lady's Bible Study that has a pot-luck meal and study time. It is also well attended. We take the 3rd Sunday Night and 5th Sunday Night off.
Again, not saying this works everywhere. But we have seen a lot of our growth from having the Sunday Night services and it works well for us.


That's awesome! Isn't it interesting how experiences differ?
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Post Re: Resurrecting the Sunday night service ? FLRon
Da Sheik wrote:
After meeting with the elders and deacons last night, I discovered there is strong support for bringing Sunday night services back. I know that it sounds unspiritual, but I was the only one present not in favor. We are going to do research over the next month and then revisit the issue at our next meeting.

I have mentioned before that we have two services on Sunday morning. This has been a source of frustration for me. Our facility could easily accommodate one combined service. Its supposed to be an “early service” and the “11 o’clock service “. But it has long been the contemporary vs the traditional service. Style differences prohibit the combination of the two. Our traditional service is mostly middle-aged to seniors. I have no doubt they are the ones lobbying for bringing back Sunday night services.

I’m not angry but these guys (and I’m a senior myself ) frustrate me. They are the ones demanding they have their own traditional service, and now they want another one at night. I am highly doubtful that any of those who attend the 8:45 am service have any desire for an evening service. This church has not observed Sunday evening services since 2004 (before my tenure here ).


I hate to say this Mr. Shiek, but it sounds to me like you’ve got a power struggle brewing in your church. I see no benefit to giving in to those that want yet another service all their own. I would press your deacons and elders to give a detailed answer of just why they feel so strongly about this Sunday night service. Are their motives selfish(as they appear to be), or are they sincerely desiring another opportunity to assemble for corporate worship?

Similarly, I’ve always wondered why our churches feel the need to have so many services each week. Is having more church services always better, or should we be striving to make fewer services more impactful to both our church and our communities?
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Post Re: Resurrecting the Sunday night service ? Cojak
FLRon wrote:
...
Similarly, I’ve always wondered why our churches feel the need to have so many services each week. Is having more church services always better, or should we be striving to make fewer services more impactful to both our church and our communities?


In my early Lifetime 1940-1950's many services were very important. As a rule we had Sun morn, sun afternoon (jail and/or old folks homes), Sunday night, Wed. Nite, Sat. Nite services. It was important because we were sort of isolated. COG (Pentecostals) needed the fellowship and 'craved it'. Add to those listed the District fellowship meetings and District youth meetings and WE WERE a busy church family. WE were a family.

That is because the members craved fellowship with like minded people. We were considered a 'cult' by the 'nominal' churches. As a matter of fact we were practically taught that the 'nominal bunch' were mostly 'hell-bound'..

That is not the present situation. Most of us feel comfortable with Baptist, Methodist and Presbyterian friends. They might not agree with us but they accept us as Christians as a general rule. THEREFORE we do not feel the NEED of the family fellowship. We are comfortable with our friends who are Christian. JMHO Smile
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