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Hebrew Roots Movement
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Post Hebrew Roots Movement Resident Skeptic
An associate of mine said it this way.....

Quote:
People think it's a doctrine thing. It isn't, really. People don't really care about doctrine these days. But people do care about identity. Generations of no identity combined with memories of Scofield's dreams result in easy pickins for DVD sellers yodeling to the blood moon tetrads, as shiftless folks look for some place to camp out and call their own.

If it was about doctrine, Rev 2:9 and 3:9 would be enough to paralyze any Jezebel daughter of Lillith bringing in their judeo Baal worship.

But, its not about doctrine. Its about feelz and a sense of belonging. Plus, a general inability to critically think about things.

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Post UncleJD
Is that what they're calling it? I just call it Judaizers and avoid them. I think there is a lot of benefit in learning about the Hebrew understanding of the Bible, I really do. Just as long as it doesn't lead into compelled observance of the Law. Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
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2/5/18 9:39 am


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Post Isa 58:12
UncleJD wrote:
Is that what they're calling it? I just call it Judaizers and avoid them. I think there is a lot of benefit in learning about the Hebrew understanding of the Bible, I really do. Just as long as it doesn't lead into compelled observance of the Law.


Shalom Unc....,😊 I think the skeptic & his friend with an opinion no scripture, was i believe was speaking of ur doctrine, feeling good about yourself, self-help nonsense, ,& a general inability to critically think about things

I have shown you so far some of your doctrine stances on things that doesn't work in all text the Bible and New Testament actually is for the Torah, G-ds Laws, you know the laws you say you don't want to adhere to, the Bible calls that Rebellion

And you Unc, fall right in line with the last statement of not being critically able to think about things. My friend, it's really not hard your fighting G-d....😶

Shalom
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Post Isa 58:12
I have a question for you 2, in your denominational standards do you think the Bible contradicts itself?
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2/5/18 2:59 pm


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Post Resident Skeptic
Isa 58:12 wrote:
I have a question for you 2, in your denominational standards do you think the Bible contradicts itself?


Only one who does not know how to rightfully divide the word would ask such a question.
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Post Dave Dorsey
Here's my question, I wonder if it can get a simple yes or no -- I bet it can't.

Must one keep the Law of Moses to be saved/go to Heaven?
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2/5/18 4:15 pm


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Post You won't get a straight answer brotherjames
Her's an excerpt from some of those working to expose this cult, and make no mistake it is a cult - it is neither Christian nor Jewish but an aberrant sect of nonsense trying to appear spiritually above the rest of us. Read the following:

The movement usually hides their beliefs and presents itself as simply seeking to educate Christians concerning their Jewish heritage. As they become acclimated to the Jewish orientation the more aberrant doctrines are slowly introduced.

Some of the warning signs

• All Christians must adhere to a kosher diet
• The Sabbath can only be observed on Saturdays
• The Jewish festivals and holidays must still be observed today

The root of their symptomatic heresies is hermeneutic (having to do with the methodology used to interpret scripture) in nature. The Protestant Reformers used a grammatical-literal hermeneutic when interpreting scripture. In other words, it means what it says unless there is a significant reason to believe otherwise. This movement uses a grammatical-historical hermeneutic with a twist. Their underlying assumptions when approaching any scripture are:

Whatever God has ever commanded of those who seek Him (i.e., the Jews, their ancestors, their descendents, and Christians) is still in effect today (including the Levitical law)

Gentile followers of Christ were "grafted into" the Jews which they interpret to mean that Gentiles must assume Jewish customs if they really want to mature and please God


Like all cults, the Hebrew Roots Movement have their own "version" of the Bible, which of course, is the only version you
are allowed to use.

Based on those unquestionable assumptions, they then decide how they can best interpret a given scripture to support those beliefs. The farther down this rabbit hole they go, the more bizarre their doctrines become. Many see the New Testament as inferior to the Old (or a conspiracy by the Catholic church). More still say that Paul's teachings are contrary to Christ (since they have trouble with his obvious statements against their beliefs) and, therefore, reject his epistles as scripture. Some say that the only reason we aren't still sacrificing animals and stoning people for their sins is because there is no Temple and no Sanhedrin. But when they are restored then these will resume. Others go so far as to eventually reject Jesus as the Messiah and simply say that He was just a Rabbi. The inevitable outcome of following this train of thought is to put people back into bondage to the Law.

The proof is in the Scripture

"But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command [them] to keep the law of Moses. ¶ And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter." Acts 15:5

The issue of how to treat the gentile believers is not a new question in our day, the Apostles themselves dealt with this issue on more than one occasion. Acts 15 shines ample light on not only the question, but the answer as well. As we read in Acts 15, we see the bible "heavyweights" like Paul and Barnabas called on the carpet along with the rest of the apostles to figure this out. And as with most issues in the church, the whole problem started with a small handful of troublemakers:

"And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, [and said], Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved." Acts 15:1

A few bad apples...

Now, we are not told who these troublemakers are, but it was sufficient to throw a monkeywrench into the whole deal:

"When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question." Acts 15:2

And deal with it they did..."And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men [and] brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. Act 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as [he did] unto us; Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith." Acts 15:7-9

They acknowledged that while e gentile does not become a Jew when believing on the Messiah, the line of division between them no longer exists. From God's perspective then, there is no difference between a Jewish and Gentile believer in Christ. But they didn't stop there, they continued on to answer this question in a most resolute and final way.

The Apostles settle this question once and for all

"Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them." Acts 15:10-12

Peter is so bold that he stuns them all into silence, and uses this time to allow Paul and Barnabas to recount all the awesome 'miracles and wonders that God had wrought among the Gentiles by them'. Just when you think it can't get any more intense that it already is, James steps in begins to wrap it up:

"And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men [and] brethren, hearken unto me: Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things. Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. " Acts 15:13-18

Then, the knockout blow:

"Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and [from] fornication, and [from] things strangled, and [from] blood. For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day." Acts 15:19-21

In an amazing display, James through the Holy Spirit, tells us once and for all what God expects from Gentile believers...and it is not to be placed under the Law of Moses. There exists no evidence in the New Testament that mandates that any Gentile believer observe Jewish holidays, eat kosher foods or worship only on the Sabbath day. What was the reaction from the entire assembled group of elders? They said this:

"Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, [Ye must] be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no [such] commandment: It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell [you] the same things by mouth. For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well." Acts 15:24-29

Did you catch that line? Go back and reread the Apostles themselves saying that they never gave any such commandment for Gentiles to be placed under the Law of Moses. Never. Ever. Do you believe the Bible? Don't take my word for it, look it up and read it for yourself...

The believer in Christ is not called to law, but to freedom in Jesus. And for those who still need further proof, Paul provides it in Galatians 2:

"But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision. And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation. But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before [them] all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? We [who are] Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified." Galatians 2:11-16
Conclusion

The roots of Christianity grow deep in Jewish culture, and it is highly recommended that all Christians learn about the Jewish feast days, holy days and other customs. They will only deepen our appreciaton and understanding of our common ancestry that we have, Gentiles together with Jews. But to suggest that any Gentile believer who follows Jesus must be placed under Old Testament law is nothing but bondage, and it's a bondage that the Bible speaks against not only in the verses quoted here, but in many other places as well. Regarding the freedom we have in Christ, let me leave you with this verse from the Master himself:

"If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed." John 8:36
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Post Isa 58:12
Dave Dorsey wrote:
Here's my question, I wonder if it can get a simple yes or no -- I bet it can't.

Must one keep the Law of Moses to be saved/go to Heaven?


Well dave, let's see, does one have to keep the Law of Moshe (Law of God) to be saved...🤔. Thats Acts 15:1, thats Tha problem in Acts 15. Know where in the Bible does it say the Law saves you.

But I will tell you what G-d says, and Deut 30:19 through 20, I set before you this day life and death blessings and cursing therefore choose life... Y'shua is the word made flesh John 1:14, what Word was he at that time being there was no N.T.? He was the living Torah 😇. & And what happens if you don't choose Him? Definitely something to think about, it's called obedience, who you want to be obedient to?

Now, will we go to heaven if we don't keep the Law of Moshe? 🤔.... I think Y'shua sums it up pretty fine in Matt 7: 21-23: "not everyone" that says to me, L-rd L-rd shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, "but he that does the Will" of My Father which is in heaven.

22: "many" will say to me in that day, L-rd L-rd have we not prophesied in your name? And in your name have cast out devils? And in your name done many wonderful works?

23: and then I will profess unto them, I never knew you depart me you that work "law"lessness or iniquity

He's talking to Believers here, those the most frightening verses in the Bible I think, and shouldn't be taken so lightly. What's the will of the Father, did Y'shua speak something other than the Father? John 12:49-50, for I have not spoken of myself, but the father was sent me he gave me a commandment what I should say and what I should speak verse 50, and I know that his commandment is life Everlasting, whatsoever I speak therefore, even as a Father said unto Me so I speak. It's all in the Torah

Matt 5:19: whosoever therefore shall "break one" of these least Commandments, and shall "teach" men so, he shall be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven but whosoever shall do (James 1:22-25) and teach them, the same Shall be Called great in the Kingdom of Heaven

I think that's pretty Point Blank😏😉

Shalom
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2/5/18 5:14 pm


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Post James...... Isa 58:12
Do you have any thought of this matter all by yourself, because if you were sitting right in front of me I could dispose of that thing very quickly line by line, but too much to put down here from my phone, way too much

That's the sad thing there stud, you have no clue what family you're in, you're not in your own family, there's a certain family that you're grafted into that G-d gave Commands Forever to be separate/Holy from Every Other Nation doing different things all found in the Torah....

So your fight really is against G-d because you're going to have to answer for it.... Repent James😶
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Last edited by Isa 58:12 on 2/5/18 5:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post Dave Dorsey
Does someone have to keep the Law of Moses to be saved

YES

or

NO

Please choose one word and reply.
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2/5/18 5:18 pm


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Post Isa 58:12
Dave Dorsey wrote:
Does someone have to keep the Law of Moses to be saved

YES

or

NO

Please choose one word and reply.


Dave, I made it very plane.... Did you read or do you not know the scriptures I presented... How can someone be saved and not keep God's Commandments?

When you call on the L-rd dave & repent of your Lawless Works, your sin, you're saved. It's what you do after can determine ur fate. That's what the Bible says. Getting saved is the starting point of your walk with G-d

Because look at all these denominations that believe in Jesus, which one goes when Messiah comes back? The Bible makes it very clear that is only a small remnant that gets out of here, who are they
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2/5/18 5:27 pm


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Post Dave Dorsey
Must someone keep the Law of Moses to be saved/enter Heaven.

--YES--

or

--NO--
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2/5/18 5:29 pm


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Post . How about this James.... Isa 58:12
Start a new thread and pace 3 sentences of that goofy letter and we'll break it down together according to what G-d says in the Bible. And you will quickly see that that's false Doctrine
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Post Isa 58:12
Dave Dorsey wrote:
Must someone keep the Law of Moses to be saved/enter Heaven.

--YES--

or

--NO--


😕.....dave, according to Y'shua in Matthew Chapter 7 Lawless Deeds come from not keeping the Law, get it Lawless without Law

You've been taught in correctly about the Law dave, it means Instructions. Now ask me the question with the word Instructions
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2/5/18 5:32 pm


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Post Dave Dorsey
The next time you decide to whine and cry about how sad it is that Church of God ministers won't interact with you, please remember that it is because you are unable to or simply refuse to offer simple answers to simple questions. Your teaching is not some challenging mystery. It is a hot mess, and it's not worth speaking to you because you won't engage in intelligent discussion.

Prove me wrong by answering my question with a "YES" or a "NO" and NOTHING else.
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2/5/18 5:36 pm


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Post Isa 58:12
Dave Dorsey wrote:
The next time you decide to whine and cry about how sad it is that Church of God ministers won't interact with you, please remember that it is because you are unable to or simply refuse to offer simple answers to simple questions. Your teaching is not some challenging mystery. It is a hot mess, and it's not worth speaking to you because you won't engage in intelligent discussion.

Prove me wrong by answering my question with a "YES" or a "NO" and NOTHING else.


For one dave, I'm not the judge, that's why I'm not answering it the way you want me to answer it I can't say who's going to make and who's not. What I can say is what the Bible says about the issue not me I didn't read the Bible

If I said no one can make it to heaven if they don't keep the Law / G-d's Instructions you would bring up the thief on the cross LOL LOL,. Yes he obviously made mistakes in his life to find himself on a cross to die, but he made it right at the end, who knows when the end is coming for them?
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2/5/18 5:41 pm


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Post .Dave.... Isa 58:12
Explain to me Matthew chapter 7 21 to 23, maybe I'm just reading it wrong 😶

Shalom
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Post Dave Dorsey
Done. Let the record show you WOULD NOT answer.

What a coward -- unable to answer a simple question about what you so "boldly" proclaim.
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2/5/18 5:43 pm


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Post Isa 58:12
Dave Dorsey wrote:
Done. Let the record show you WOULD NOT answer.

What a coward -- unable to answer a simple question about what you so "boldly" proclaim.


Lol, I did answer it, you don't have ears to hear. I'm not going to give you my two cents on an issue dave, I'm going to give you scripture so there's no mistake
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2/5/18 5:47 pm


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Post Isa 58:12
Dave Dorsey wrote:
Done. Let the record show you WOULD NOT answer.

What a coward -- unable to answer a simple question about what you so "boldly" proclaim.


Did you call me a coward dave? Lol, isn't that attacking me, aren't you breaking your own "laws" 🤔
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