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This week's Bible lesson
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Post Dave Dorsey
Isa 58:12 wrote:
and in our days is all Y'shua & no Law...🙄

Wow... "it's all about Jesus, eyeroll". That's about as stark a declaration of your heart as you could have made.
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Post Isa 58:12
Dave Dorsey wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
and in our days is all Y'shua & no Law...🙄

Wow... "it's all about Jesus, eyeroll". That's about as stark a declaration of your heart as you could have made.


U didn't see Y'shua in the lesson, did u read it all?
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Post Re: This week's Bible lesson bradfreeman
Isa 58:12 wrote:
This week's Bible Lesson Torah lesson will be beneficial if we read it the readings are in the Torah Exodus 18:1-20:23 & the prophets Isaiah 6:1-7:6, 9:5-6 & the N.T. Matt 19:16-26
Matt 5:8-20 is very good 😇

This will be a good discussion on, and would like to have good conversation in it

Shalom shalom


Since the first 12 responses to this thread were from you Laughing I thought you were discussing the lesson with yourself!

Let's talk about these 3 passages:

Exodus 18 - 20

This is the passage where Moses received the law on Mt. Sinai.

16 So it came about on the third day, when it was morning, that there were thunder and lightning flashes and a thick cloud upon the mountain and a very loud trumpet sound, so that all the people who were in the camp trembled. 17 And Moses brought the people out of the camp to meet God, and they stood at the foot of the mountain.

The Lord Visits Sinai

Exo 19:12 You shall set bounds for the people all around, saying, ‘Beware that you do not go up on the mountain or touch the border of it; whoever touches the mountain shall surely be put to death. 13 No hand shall touch him, but he shall surely be stoned or shot through; whether beast or man, he shall not live.’ When the ram’s horn sounds a long blast, they shall come up to the mountain.” 14 So Moses went down from the mountain to the people and consecrated the people, and they washed their garments. 15 He said to the people, “Be ready for the third day; do not go near a woman.” 16 So it came about on the third day, when it was morning, that there were thunder and lightning flashes and a thick cloud upon the mountain and a very loud trumpet sound, so that all the people who were in the camp trembled. 17 And Moses brought the people out of the camp to meet God, and they stood at the foot of the mountain.18 Now Mount Sinai was all in smoke because the Lord descended upon it in fire; and its smoke ascended like the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mountain quaked violently. 19 When the sound of the trumpet grew louder and louder, Moses spoke and God answered him with thunder. 20 The Lord came down on Mount Sinai, to the top of the mountain; and the Lord called Moses to the top of the mountain, and Moses went up. 21 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, “Go down, warn the people, so that they do not break through to the Lord to gaze, and many of them perish. 22 Also let the priests who come near to the Lord consecrate themselves, or else the Lord will break out against them.”

This is exactly the mount and covenant given on Mt. Sinai that the writer of Hebrews was describing in Hebrews 12.

Heb. 12:18 For you have not come to a mountain that can be touched and to a blazing fire, and to darkness and gloom and whirlwind, 19 and to the blast of a trumpet and the sound of words which sound was such that those who heard begged that no further word be spoken to them. 20 For they could not bear the command, “If even a beast touches the mountain, it will be stoned.” 21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, “I am full of fear and trembling.”

This is not the mountain we have come to. I hope this isn't the mountain you're bringing people to when you teach.

Heb. 12;22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.

We've come to a different mounting and "a new covenant."

This Exodus 18-20 Mt. Sinai experience and covenant is exactly what Paul was referring to in Galatians 4 (also quoting Isa 54):

Gal 4:21 Tell me, you who want to be under law, do you not listen to the law? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the bondwoman and one by the free woman. 23 But the son by the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and the son by the free woman through the promise. 24 This is allegorically speaking, for these women are two covenants: one proceeding from Mount Sinai bearing children who are to be slaves; she is Hagar. 25 Now this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother. 27 For it is written,

“Rejoice, barren woman who does not bear;
Break forth and shout, you who are not in labor;
For more numerous are the children of the desolate
Than of the one who has a husband.”

28 And you brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29 But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also. 30 But what does the Scripture say?

“Cast out the bondwoman and her son,
For the son of the bondwoman shall not be an heir with the son of the free woman.”

31 So then, brethren, we are not children of a bondwoman, but of the free woman.


So, just as Abraham had 2 wives, there are "two covenants." Not one covenant modified - 2 covenants.

Hagar is Mt. Sinai. She is a type of the covenant given on Mt. Sinai.
Sarah, the free Jerusalem, is our mother. We are born of the freedom of the Spirit, not the bondage of the letter.

We are not called to keep Hagar in the house to teach the children how to behave.

We are called to "cast out the bondwoman."

Mt. Sinai has to go. That old covenant has to go. It is obsolete, weak and useless to raise the children. Sarah, freedom, can handle the job.

So Exodus 18-20 is a beautiful picture of the darkness, gloom, fear, trembling and death of that Mt. Sinai covenant.

Isaiah 6-7, 9

Isa 6:1 In the year of King Uzziah’s death I saw the Lord sitting on a throne, lofty and exalted, with the train of His robe filling the temple. 2 Seraphim stood above Him, each having six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. 3 And one called out to another and said,

“Holy, Holy, Holy, is the Lord of hosts,
The whole earth is full of His glory.”

4 And the foundations of the thresholds trembled at the voice of him who called out, while the temple was filling with smoke. 5 Then I said,

“Woe is me, for I am ruined!
Because I am a man of unclean lips,
And I live among a people of unclean lips;
For my eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts.”

6 Then one of the seraphim flew to me with a burning coal in his hand, which he had taken from the altar with tongs. 7 He touched my mouth with it and said, “Behold, this has touched your lips; and your iniquity is taken away and your sin is forgiven.”


Isaiah 6 marks a turn in Isaiah's ministry and message. Before this experience his is a message primarily of woes to Israel and even himself in the presence of God. After this experience with the forgiveness of God, Isaiah begins unfolding the message of the Messiah (Isa 7:14). Sorry I went a smidge past your verse 6 boundary.

Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel.

He prophesied, not of a God in the Heavens, separated from us, but Immanuel, God with us. He prophesied of a new and eternal government of peace, justice and righteousness.

Isa 9:5 For every boot of the booted warrior in the battle tumult,
And cloak rolled in blood, will be for burning, fuel for the fire.
6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;
And the government will rest on His shoulders;
And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
7 There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace,
On the throne of David and over his kingdom,
To establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness
From then on and forevermore.
The zeal of the Lord of hosts will accomplish this.


Mat 19:16-26


Mat 19:16 And someone came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?” 17 And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not commit murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; 19 Honor your father and mother; and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 20 The young man *said to Him, “All these things I have kept; what am I still lacking?” 21 Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” 22 But when the young man heard this statement, he went away grieving; for he was one who owned much property.

23 And Jesus said to His disciples, “Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” 25 When the disciples heard this, they were very astonished and said, “Then who can be saved?” 26 And looking at them Jesus said to them, “With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”


As I indicated in a previous post, the law was an impossible path to eternal life. As Peter said in Acts 15, it was an unbearable yoke. By the works of the law, no one will be justified or find life. Jesus made it clear that no one would find life by keeping the commandments - with people this is impossible. We don't and can't find like by keeping the commandments. The law will always leave you lacking, falling short of the glory of God. In Jewish culture, the rich were the blessed (see Deut 28). If the rich (the blessed of God) aren't getting in, "then who can be saved?"

We don't "live by them" or find life by keeping the commandments. We live faith.

Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.” 11 Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “The righteous man shall live by faith.” 12 However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “He who practices them shall live by them.”


You won't find life by practicing them, you'll find curses, condemnation and death. You don't get to cherry-pick your 26 favorite old covenant rules and keep them to find life. You either "abide by all things written" or you are under a curse. Hagar has to go.
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Post Isa 58:12
.brad....... What's wrong with you, can't you follow the rules LOL LOL that's not the topic I put up there. I think this has been a life long bondage of u always skirting the issued presented Why don't you just follow the rules just answer my topic. I wouldn't want you to be called the one that goes off topic & ruins people's threads now LOL 😉
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Post bradfreeman
Isa 58:12 wrote:
.brad....... What's wrong with you, can't you follow the rules LOL LOL that's not the topic I put up there. I think this has been a life long bondage of u always skirting the issued presented Why don't you just follow the rules just answer my topic. I wouldn't want you to be called the one that goes off topic & ruins people's threads now LOL 😉


You listed some passage that you wanted to discuss. I discussed the passages you listed from a new covenant perspective. You don't like discussion?

Would you like to present some issues on the passages for further discussion?
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Post Isa 58:12
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
.brad....... What's wrong with you, can't you follow the rules LOL LOL that's not the topic I put up there. I think this has been a life long bondage of u always skirting the issued presented Why don't you just follow the rules just answer my topic. I wouldn't want you to be called the one that goes off topic & ruins people's threads now LOL 😉


You listed some passage that you wanted to discuss. I discussed the passages you listed from a new covenant perspective. You don't like discussion?

Would you like to present some issues on the passages for further discussion?


You didn't read the lesson brad, your N.T. verses didn't deal with this issue, and they were way off. I want you to read the lesson of last week and point out to me the Laws that are binding, the ones that are weak, or obsolete like the Hebrew chapter verses you used in another thread. I'm going to give the lesson for this week later, but I want you to answer this one 😉
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Post skinnybishop
Wow. I've found a poster who actually makes me cheer for Brad.

I wish you guys would stop feeding this troll.
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Post Isa 58:12
skinnybishop wrote:
Wow. I've found a poster who actually makes me cheer for Brad.

I wish you guys would stop feeding this troll.


Awe, thanks pastor 😶
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Post bradfreeman
Isa 58:12 wrote:
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
.brad....... What's wrong with you, can't you follow the rules LOL LOL that's not the topic I put up there. I think this has been a life long bondage of u always skirting the issued presented Why don't you just follow the rules just answer my topic. I wouldn't want you to be called the one that goes off topic & ruins people's threads now LOL 😉


You listed some passage that you wanted to discuss. I discussed the passages you listed from a new covenant perspective. You don't like discussion?

Would you like to present some issues on the passages for further discussion?


You didn't read the lesson brad, your N.T. verses didn't deal with this issue, and they were way off. I want you to read the lesson of last week and point out to me the Laws that are binding, the ones that are weak, or obsolete like the Hebrew chapter verses you used in another thread. I'm going to give the lesson for this week later, but I want you to answer this one 😉


All of the 613 commands are weak and useless to make us perfect (Heb. 7:18,19 and Rom 8:3). All of the 613 commands were fulfilled by Christ. All are now obsolete (Heb 8:13). None of the 613 commands are binding on us as a condition of righteousness, life or blessing.

Gal 2:15 “We are Jews by nature and not sinners from among the Gentiles; 16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

Gal 3:1 You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? 2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? 4 Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? 5 So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

6 Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness. 7 Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. 8 The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “All the nations will be blessed in you.” 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.

10 For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.” 11 Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “The righteous man shall live by faith.” 12 However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “He who practices them shall live by them.” 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”— 14 in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.


The Law was a covenant that said "if you do this you will live and be blessed." Christ did it and set His righteousness to our account.

Rom 13:8 Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. 9 For this, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Surely you wouldn't argue that Christ didn't love his neighbor. "He who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law" - all 613 commands. Jesus is the only one who could and did fulfill the law.

All 613 commands were weak and useless to produce life in us. We couldn't do it. After 1,500 years of trying, Paul said in Rom 3:10, there is none righteous, no not one.

Do you believe your Torah-keeping has anything to do with your righteousness, blessing or life?
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2/13/18 9:21 am


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Post Isa 58:12
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
.brad....... What's wrong with you, can't you follow the rules LOL LOL that's not the topic I put up there. I think this has been a life long bondage of u always skirting the issued presented Why don't you just follow the rules just answer my topic. I wouldn't want you to be called the one that goes off topic & ruins people's threads now LOL 😉


You listed some passage that you wanted to discuss. I discussed the passages you listed from a new covenant perspective. You don't like discussion?

Would you like to present some issues on the passages for further discussion?


You didn't read the lesson brad, your N.T. verses didn't deal with this issue, and they were way off. I want you to read the lesson of last week and point out to me the Laws that are binding, the ones that are weak, or obsolete like the Hebrew chapter verses you used in another thread. I'm going to give the lesson for this week later, but I want you to answer this one 😉


All of the 613 commands are weak and useless to make us perfect (Heb. 7:18,19 and Rom 8:3). All of the 613 commands were fulfilled by Christ. All are now obsolete (Heb 8:13). None of the 613 commands are binding on us as a condition of righteousness, life or blessing.

Gal 2:15 “We are Jews by nature and not sinners from among the Gentiles; 16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

Gal 3:1 You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? 2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? 4 Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? 5 So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

6 Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness. 7 Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. 8 The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “All the nations will be blessed in you.” 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.

10 For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.” 11 Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “The righteous man shall live by faith.” 12 However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “He who practices them shall live by them.” 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”— 14 in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.


The Law was a covenant that said "if you do this you will live and be blessed." Christ did it and set His righteousness to our account.

Rom 13:8 Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. 9 For this, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Surely you wouldn't argue that Christ didn't love his neighbor. "He who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law" - all 613 commands. Jesus is the only one who could and did fulfill the law.

All 613 commands were weak and useless to produce life in us. We couldn't do it. After 1,500 years of trying, Paul said in Rom 3:10, there is none righteous, no not one.

Do you believe your Torah-keeping has anything to do with your righteousness, blessing or life?


G-ds Commandments/Laws are Perfect Ps 18:30; as for G-d, His Way is Perfect(Deut 18:13), the Word of the L-rd is tried, He is a buckler to all those that trust in Him. Perfect, Tamiyim: truth, without blemish, complete, full, sincerely, sound, without spot (Eph 5:27😉, Know 17:23, 17:17). Ps 19:7; the Law of the L-rd is Perfect, "converting" the soul (Acts 3:19) the Testimony of the L-rd is sure making the wise "simple" vs 11! Moreover by them (Laws/Torah) is the servant warned, "and in keeping them" there is "great reward" Lev 26:3-4, Ps 106:3, Prov 11:9, Matt 5:19

Do those verses have the same mindset as you as being weak and useless? Now don't get me wrong, keeping the law will not save you outside of Y'shua, that's not its purpose. You have one mindset of the Law and you and composite around everything. But as you see it doesn't work in all the text of the Bible

I'm running late for work, all your the verses are easily disputed with just the verses I gave you here
You want to talk about this stuff more, awesome keep making them short

Shalom
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Post bradfreeman
Isa 58:12 wrote:
G-ds Commandments/Laws are Perfect Ps 18:30; as for G-d, His Way is Perfect(Deut 18:13), the Word of the L-rd is tried, He is a buckler to all those that trust in Him. Perfect, Tamiyim: truth, without blemish, complete, full, sincerely, sound, without spot (Eph 5:27😉, Know 17:23, 17:17). Ps 19:7; the Law of the L-rd is Perfect, "converting" the soul (Acts 3:19) the Testimony of the L-rd is sure making the wise "simple" vs 11! Moreover by them (Laws/Torah) is the servant warned, "and in keeping them" there is "great reward" Lev 26:3-4, Ps 106:3, Prov 11:9, Matt 5:19

Do those verses have the same mindset as you as being weak and useless? Now don't get me wrong, keeping the law will not save you outside of Y'shua, that's not its purpose. You have one mindset of the Law and you and composite around everything. But as you see it doesn't work in all the text of the Bible

I'm running late for work, all your the verses are easily disputed with just the verses I gave you here
You want to talk about this stuff more, awesome keep making them short

Shalom


There is nothing wrong with the Law. It is simply a mirror. The weakness and uselessness of the Law stem from our inability to keep it...we just couldn't...it was weak through the flesh. Our new covenant doesn't rest on the strength of our flesh or whether or not we were born Jewish. It has taken us out of the flesh and into the Spirit where there is no Jew or Gentile, male or female, bond or free.

The Law is not obsolete because the dietary rules are bad. It is obsolete because a better covenant came along.

The Law is like an 8-track tape. Once the compact disc came along, it destroyed the 8-track tape like a consuming fire. The 8-track is obsolete and has disappeared.

Just for clarification, when you say "the law will not save you outside of Yeshua", are you saying we are saved by Yeshua giving us the ability to find life by keeping Torah?

Now can you address some of the scriptures and questions in my last post?
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2/14/18 8:21 am


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Post Isa 58:12
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
G-ds Commandments/Laws are Perfect Ps 18:30; as for G-d, His Way is Perfect(Deut 18:13), the Word of the L-rd is tried, He is a buckler to all those that trust in Him. Perfect, Tamiyim: truth, without blemish, complete, full, sincerely, sound, without spot (Eph 5:27😉, Know 17:23, 17:17). Ps 19:7; the Law of the L-rd is Perfect, "converting" the soul (Acts 3:19) the Testimony of the L-rd is sure making the wise "simple" vs 11! Moreover by them (Laws/Torah) is the servant warned, "and in keeping them" there is "great reward" Lev 26:3-4, Ps 106:3, Prov 11:9, Matt 5:19

Do those verses have the same mindset as you as being weak and useless? Now don't get me wrong, keeping the law will not save you outside of Y'shua, that's not its purpose. You have one mindset of the Law and you and composite around everything. But as you see it doesn't work in all the text of the Bible

I'm running late for work, all your the verses are easily disputed with just the verses I gave you here
You want to talk about this stuff more, awesome keep making them short

Shalom


There is nothing wrong with the Law. It is simply a mirror. The weakness and uselessness of the Law stem from our inability to keep it...we just couldn't...it was weak through the flesh. Our new covenant doesn't rest on the strength of our flesh or whether or not we were born Jewish. It has taken us out of the flesh and into the Spirit where there is no Jew or Gentile, male or female, bond or free.

The Law is not obsolete because the dietary rules are bad. It is obsolete because a better covenant came along.

The Law is like an 8-track tape. Once the compact disc came along, it destroyed the 8-track tape like a consuming fire. The 8-track is obsolete and has disappeared.

Just for clarification, when you say "the law will not save you outside of Yeshua", are you saying we are saved by Yeshua giving us the ability to find life by keeping Torah?

Now can you address some of the scriptures and questions in my last post?


No brad, the Law is not weak, people are, that's G-ds Standards for life, that's what He thinks s right. You say there's nothing wrong with the law, but in the same breath and sentence you say that is weak and useless...

& You say the dietary laws are bad? Lol, I thought u said there's nothing wrong with the law, & tell me how G-d was wrong about His requirements of things to eat and not eat that makes His people look & do things different from the world?

Doesn't make sense stud..... A track LOL LOL, but will use your language, first start on a track, then went to take, then a record, then CD, no Bluetooth.... All different but it's the same songs whatever artist you listen to.

🤔...... That sounds familiar like Isa 28:10; Precept must be upon Precept, upon Precept; Line upon Line, upon Line, here a little and there a little.....
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Post bradfreeman
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Quote:

There is nothing wrong with the Law. It is simply a mirror. The weakness and uselessness of the Law stem from our inability to keep it...we just couldn't...it was weak through the flesh. Our new covenant doesn't rest on the strength of our flesh or whether or not we were born Jewish. It has taken us out of the flesh and into the Spirit where there is no Jew or Gentile, male or female, bond or free.

The Law is not obsolete because the dietary rules are bad. It is obsolete because a better covenant came along.

The Law is like an 8-track tape. Once the compact disc came along, it destroyed the 8-track tape like a consuming fire. The 8-track is obsolete and has disappeared.

Just for clarification, when you say "the law will not save you outside of Yeshua", are you saying we are saved by Yeshua giving us the ability to find life by keeping Torah?

Now can you address some of the scriptures and questions in my last post?


No brad, the Law is not weak, people are, that's G-ds Standards for life, that's what He thinks s right. You say there's nothing wrong with the law, but in the same breath and sentence you say that is weak and useless...


Paul and the writer of Hebrews say the Law is weak, useless and obsolete...so that is the language I use.

Romans 8:3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh,

Heb. 7:8 For, on the one hand, there is a setting aside of a former commandment because of its weakness and uselessness 19 (for the Law made nothing perfect), and on the other hand there is a bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.

Heb 8:13 When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.

God made the first covenant obsolete.

Quote:
& You say the dietary laws are bad? Lol, I thought u said there's nothing wrong with the law, & tell me how G-d was wrong about His requirements of things to eat and not eat that makes His people look & do things different from the world?


What I said was that the first covenant is not obsolete because of the quality of the dietary laws. It is obsolete because God made it obsolete by bringing in a new covenant. See Hebrews 8:13.

Quote:
Doesn't make sense stud..... A track LOL LOL, but will use your language, first start on a track, then went to take, then a record, then CD, no Bluetooth.... All different but it's the same songs whatever artist you listen to.

🤔...... That sounds familiar like Isa 28:10; Precept must be upon Precept, upon Precept; Line upon Line, upon Line, here a little and there a little.....


You need to read the Bible all the way through.
    There were 2,500 years before the law was added.
    There were 1,500 years when the law was in force.
    Now there has been 2,000 years since the Christ ended the law and shed the blood of a new covenant.

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Last edited by bradfreeman on 2/25/18 9:06 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post Last week's lesson Isa 58:12
Tetzvavah-"You shall Command

I just wanted to point something out of this lesson which I think are very wonderful things from this week's Torah lesson from Ex 27:20-30:10, Prophets Ezek 43:10-27, N.T. Heb 13:10-16

Just from the beginning, Ex 27:20-21; now you shall *Command* the "children of Y'srael" that they shall take for you *clear*(Pure) olive oil "crushed" for "illumination/Light" (Jn 8:12, Y'shua is Light of the world), to kindle a "Lamp to burn continually". Vs 21; in the tent of meeting, outside the partition that is near the Testimonial Tablets, "Aaron" (Priests, we r Rev 1:6) and his sons shall arrange it from *evening until morning*, before the L-rd: It shall be a "statute forever" unto their Generations on behalf of the, the children of Y'srael.

Alot of things going on right here, 1st it's a Command of "Purity", & u shall Command the children of Y'srael that they shall take "Pure" *olive* (us) oil "crushed/beaten" we need to be as an olive getting crushed, smashed and beaten in the presence of the L-rd, absolutely Pure, free from any foreign substance for the Light/Y'shua/Menorah to burn continually from morning to evening.

The Lamp of Holiness is Pure and True, so should be the fuel that supplies it. We need to be on fire for the L-rd, that burns the oil that is free from impurity to cast the Light ( Jn 8:12, Y'shua is the Light of the world & Torah Ps 119:105),. Even more important, is the oil needs to be pure and beaten which causes Lamp to burn continually.

As Disciples of the Messiah, we are called to shine that bright, unwavering, Eternal Light. Like Him, we need to be beaten and pure that our Lamps will be forever supplied by oil without contamination.

We are called Priests in Rev 1:6, same call for us, Purity. Ex 29:44-46; and I will sanctify Tabernacle of the congregation, and the altar, I will sanctify also both Aaron and his sons to minister to me in the *Priests* office(Rev 1:6). 45; and I will dwell among the children of Y'srael, and I will be their G-d

In an unholy world, the L-rd chooses to make his dwelling particular places, us 1 Cor 6:19-20. Should our burden be any less? The Light that we as Priests are to portray is Torah in Y'shua. We walk by the Spirit of Torah instead of just the letter. The New Covenant enables Believers to be changed into the image of Messiah 2 Cor 3:18. & Our fire for Adonai should never go out[/i]

Also Ex 28:2-3; and you should make holy garments for Aaron your brother for the glory and for beauty. 3; and you shall speak unto all that are *Wise* hearted, who am I have filled with the *Spirit of Wisdom*. Gifts of the Spirit 1 Cor 12:8😉 in the OT

Priests also dress different from other people. A person who is a trashman looks & dresses different from a banker. I'm sure u understand, we don't look like regular people, our roles are different.

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Post Isa 58:12
This week's lesson is called Vayakhel- & He assembled

Torah Ex 35:1-38:20
Prophets 1Kings 7:13-26, 40-50
N.T. Hebrews 9:1-10

Assembly time 😉[/i]
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Post Re: Last week's lesson bradfreeman
Thoughts on the last week's lesson.

Isa 58:12 wrote:
Tetzvavah-"You shall Command

I just wanted to point something out of this lesson which I think are very wonderful things from this week's Torah lesson from Ex 27:20-30:10, Prophets Ezek 43:10-27, N.T. Heb 13:10-16

Just from the beginning, Ex 27:20-21; now you shall *Command* the "children of Y'srael" that they shall take for you *clear*(Pure) olive oil "crushed" for "illumination/Light" (Jn 8:12, Y'shua is Light of the world), to kindle a "Lamp to burn continually". Vs 21; in the tent of meeting, outside the partition that is near the Testimonial Tablets, "Aaron" (Priests, we r Rev 1:6) and his sons shall arrange it from *evening until morning*, before the L-rd: It shall be a "statute forever" unto their Generations on behalf of the, the children of Y'srael.


Jesus is the light of the world. That light now lives in us and we are the light of the world. The Law, the prophets and the Psalms pictured and prophesied who Jesus would be and what He would accomplish for us.

Quote:
Alot of things going on right here, 1st it's a Command of "Purity", & u shall Command the children of Y'srael that they shall take "Pure" *olive* (us) oil "crushed/beaten" we need to be as an olive getting crushed, smashed and beaten in the presence of the L-rd, absolutely Pure, free from any foreign substance for the Light/Y'shua/Menorah to burn continually from morning to evening.


Jesus is that pure, crushed and beaten olive oil. He was wound for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquity, by His beating we are healed. Our wounding has no redemptive value. It is His wounds that cleansed us, that took away our sins and made us holy.

Heb. 10:10 10 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins; 12 but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, sat down at the right hand of God, 13 waiting from that time onward until His enemies be made a footstool for His feet. 14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.


Now, by one offering, He has made our spirits perfect.

Heb. 10:22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.


Quote:
The Lamp of Holiness is Pure and True, so should be the fuel that supplies it. We need to be on fire for the L-rd, that burns the oil that is free from impurity to cast the Light ( Jn 8:12, Y'shua is the Light of the world & Torah Ps 119:105),. Even more important, is the oil needs to be pure and beaten which causes Lamp to burn continually.


The oil in us is His Holy Spirit. It's the Spirit we receive by hearing and believing the Good News of all that Jesus did for us in redemption.

Gal 3:1 You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? 2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?

No, we don't receive that holy oil, the Holy Spirit, by adhering to religious rules. We receive the Spirit by believing the Good News.

No, we aren't "being perfected" by following OT commandments. He has perfected us for all time by His offering.

Quote:
As Disciples of the Messiah, we are called to shine that bright, unwavering, Eternal Light. Like Him, we need to be beaten and pure that our Lamps will be forever supplied by oil without contamination.


No, we don't "need to be beaten and pure that our Lamps will be forever supplied by oil." He was beaten and pure so our Lamps are filled with His Spirit and we have been freely supplied with everything we need.

Rom 8:32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things?


There is no price to pay for anything we receive from God. He isn't selling life, blessing or favor. Jesus urged us to finally count the cost and realize that we don't have enough to finish a tower to Heaven, we don't have enough to take the kingdom by force or overcome the King.

Quote:
We are called Priests in Rev 1:6, same call for us, Purity. Ex 29:44-46; and I will sanctify Tabernacle of the congregation, and the altar, I will sanctify also both Aaron and his sons to minister to me in the *Priests* office(Rev 1:6). 45; and I will dwell among the children of Y'srael, and I will be their G-d


Purity is not demanded in the new covenant. It is supplied. He cleansed us in Spirit. Now, as we hear and believe this Good News, it produces fruit in us...love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, goodness, faithfulness and self-control. He produces a holy life in us, He caused the increase, He makes it grow.

2 Cor 3:5 What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, even as the Lord gave opportunity to each one. 6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing the growth. 7 So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who causes the growth. 8 Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor. 9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.


Quote:
In an unholy world, the L-rd chooses to make his dwelling particular places, us 1 Cor 6:19-20. Should our burden be any less?


The very fact that He makes His dwelling in us says something about us. It says we're holy, sanctified, perfect and complete.

His yoke is easy and His burden is light.
Ask the lamp how difficult it is to shine.
Ask someone how difficult it is to bring Good News.

The only difficult arises when those who seek to establish their own righteousness, blessing or life by keeping OT rules (or any set of religious rules) oppose the message of righteousness by faith.

He is the light in us. We simply carry His love and His message of Good News to the world so they can believe be born again of this incorruptible seed.

Quote:
The Light that we as Priests are to portray is Torah in Y'shua.


2 Cor 4:3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 5 For we do not preach ourselves but Christ Jesus as Lord, and ourselves as your bond-servants for Jesus’ sake. 6 For God, who said, “Light shall shine out of darkness,” is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ. 7 But [b]we have this treasure in earthen vessels, so that the surpassing greatness of the power will be of God and not from ourselves;[/b].


The light we shine is the gospel (Good News) of the "knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ." The Good News is that we know the glory (goodness) of God by looking at Jesus face. This is the light that God has shone in our hearts. So it's the light we possess. So it's the light we carry in these earthen vessels. It's the light we shine.

All of this light, this "power" is "not from ourselves." It doesn't originate in our effort, our strength, our determination, our wisdom, our ability to keep OT rules. It is "of God."

[quote]We walk by the Spirit of Torah instead of just the letter./[qtuoe]

The new covenant is not about us walking by the Spirit and the letter, or walking by the letter through the Spirit.

2 Cor 3:4 Such confidence we have through Christ toward God. 5 Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God, 6 who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Our adequacy comes from God, not ourselves. It doesn't come because God enables us to keep the letter to be adequate. It comes because He "made us adequate." He didn't make us adequate as servants of the letter. Paul could have said, "He made us adequate by the Spirit to keep the letter." Or he could have said, "He made us adequate to serve by the Spirit and the letter." But he didn't.

Rom 7:4 Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. 6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter. 6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

No we died to the Law. We "were bound" to the letter. But "we have been released." Now we serve "not in oldness of the letter" but in "newness of the Spirit." Something "new" has come, the old has passed away.

Quote:
The New Covenant enables Believers to be changed into the image of Messiah 2 Cor 3:18. & Our fire for Adonai should never go out[/i]


2 Cor 3:14 But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ. 15 But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart; 16 but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.


Inwardly, we've already been changed, born again, created in Christ Jesus, made perfect, complete, sanctified by Him.

Outwardly, the transformation of our behavior doesn't occur by "reading Moses" or "at the reading of the old covenant." Reading Moses and the old covenant veil our heart. When our focus is on Jesus, not Moses, when we look at the serpent lifted up, when we fix our eyes the author and finisher of our faith, we see transformation, we see the poison that was killing us lose its power, we find the ability to lay aside every weight, the sin that besets us and can run this race with patience.

Beholding Jesus isn't beholding the letter. "The Lord is the Spirit", not the letter. The letter focuses you on the unfinished work of you, not the finished work of Jesus.

Quote:
Also Ex 28:2-3; and you should make holy garments for Aaron your brother for the glory and for beauty. 3; and you shall speak unto all that are *Wise* hearted, who am I have filled with the *Spirit of Wisdom*. Gifts of the Spirit 1 Cor 12:8😉 in the OT

Priests also dress different from other people. A person who is a trashman looks & dresses different from a banker. I'm sure u understand, we don't look like regular people, our roles are different.


Old covenant adornment was external, wearing phylacteries and long tassels, putting on sheep's clothes, washing the outside of the cup, whitewashing the tomb.

New covenant adornment the hidden person of the heart manifesting, a clean inside bringing forth living water, light, love, faith and liberty.

The trash-man shines this life and love the same as the banker. In fact, God has chosen the poor of this world to be rich in faith.
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Post Isa 58:12
Again with looooooooong replies brad? You don't want a serious conversation about this or u wouldn't add such a long reply, knowing I'm not gonna answer all.

But I find something interesting and what you always say and it just click with me. You say; what Jesus did for us... while that is a VERY important fact, you never reply with what we are supposed to do for Him.... How do you think you serve him and live for Him?

Joshua 24:15; as for me and my house we will *serve* the L-rd. I see this plaque in a lot of Christian friends of mine's homes & in regular people's homes, and that's the Old Testament, so does that still stand for believers today?
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Post bradfreeman
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Again with looooooooong replies brad? You don't want a serious conversation about this or u wouldn't add such a long reply, knowing I'm not gonna answer all.

But I find something interesting and what you always say and it just click with me. You say; what Jesus did for us... while that is a VERY important fact, you never reply with what we are supposed to do for Him.... How do you think you serve him and live for Him?

Joshua 24:15; as for me and my house we will *serve* the L-rd. I see this plaque in a lot of Christian friends of mine's homes & in regular people's homes, and that's the Old Testament, so does that still stand for believers today?


I answered ALL of your "lesson." A serious conversation responds to every point of your lesson.

What Jesus did for us is EVERYTHING.
All we do is hear that Good News and believe it.
What we do for Him is simply the fruit of His life in us.

1 Cor. 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me.

As for service:
Jesus showed us the Father.
Jesus didn't come to be served, but to serve.

Mark 10:45 For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”

He isn't served by human hands.

Acts 17:24 The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands; 25 nor is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things;

Our service to Him is not in keeping religious rules, but by loving those around us.

1 Cor 9:19 For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more. 20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law; 21 to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law. 22 To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak; I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some. 23 I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it.

Our "service" is to Christ is to "serve" those He died to bring into the kingdom. Christ's servant heart is born in us, when we are born again, so that we love people and lay down our lives for people, to bring them to knowledge of the truth. We don't "serve" in oldness of the letter, but in newness of the Spirit.

Rom 7:6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.
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Post Isa 58:12
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Again with looooooooong replies brad? You don't want a serious conversation about this or u wouldn't add such a long reply, knowing I'm not gonna answer all.

But I find something interesting and what you always say and it just click with me. You say; what Jesus did for us... while that is a VERY important fact, you never reply with what we are supposed to do for Him.... How do you think you serve him and live for Him?

Joshua 24:15; as for me and my house we will *serve* the L-rd. I see this plaque in a lot of Christian friends of mine's homes & in regular people's homes, and that's the Old Testament, so does that still stand for believers today?


I answered ALL of your "lesson." A serious conversation responds to every point of your lesson.

What Jesus did for us is EVERYTHING.
All we do is hear that Good News and believe it.
What we do for Him is simply the fruit of His life in us.

1 Cor. 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me.

As for service:
Jesus showed us the Father.
Jesus didn't come to be served, but to serve.

Mark 10:45 For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”

He isn't served by human hands.

Acts 17:24 The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands; 25 nor is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things;

Our service to Him is not in keeping religious rules, but by loving those around us.

1 Cor 9:19 For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more. 20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law; 21 to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law. 22 To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak; I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some. 23 I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it.

Our "service" is to Christ is to "serve" those He died to bring into the kingdom. Christ's servant heart is born in us, when we are born again, so that we love people and lay down our lives for people, to bring them to knowledge of the truth. We don't "serve" in oldness of the letter, but in newness of the Spirit.

Rom 7:6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.


Right brad, by *Grace* we are saved......., & U say "what we do for Him is simply the fruit of His Life in us". But brad,. You're not living like He did, your life is completely different. I'm not trying to be mean brad, but "ur" veiw of Torah is not Y'shua's veiw, do understand what I'm saying?

We keep His Torah with the faith in Him, we walk in the Spirit of the Torah which was always G-ds point to serve & love Him. We do it from our hearts
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Post bradfreeman
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Right brad, by *Grace* we are saved......., & U say "what we do for Him is simply the fruit of His Life in us". But brad,. You're not living like He did, your life is completely different. I'm not trying to be mean brad, but "ur" veiw of Torah is not Y'shua's veiw, do understand what I'm saying?


Torah says: God blesses those who keep all of the commandments.
Jesus says: God blesses the poor, the hungry, the sad and the mistreated.

Luke 6:20 And turning His gaze toward His disciples, He began to say, “Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God. 21 Blessed are you who hunger now, for you shall be satisfied. Blessed are you who weep now, for you shall laugh. 22 Blessed are you when men hate you, and ostracize you, and insult you, and scorn your name as evil, for the sake of the Son of Man.


Torah says: God blesses those who keep all of the commandments.
Jesus says: God blesses those who curse Him.

Luke 6:27 “But I say to you who hear, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29 Whoever hits you on the cheek, offer him the other also; and whoever takes away your coat, do not withhold your shirt from him either.


Torah says: God does good to those who do good.
Jesus says: God is no sinner. He does good to even the evil and ungrateful.

Luke 6:32 If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. 33 If you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. 34 If you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners in order to receive back the same amount. 35 But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for He Himself is kind to ungrateful and evil men. 36 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.

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