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Carolyn Smith |
From what I understand, the main thing the Law taught us is that we cannot live up to keeping it all. Even the saints in the OT all struggled with sin and with keeping the Law. The Law did not help the Pharisees because they were married to keeping the Law, but it was not written on their hearts. It was an outward, bondage of duty rather than being obedient to what was written on their hearts. The Law became their God, so they had no need of Jesus when He came.
You fail to distinguish between the Old Covenant (the Law) given in the OT and the New Covenant given in the NT that relies on the blood of Jesus! The new covenant is better!
Galatians 3: 11-14 makes it clear that we are no longer obligated to live under the Law, but we are to live by faith!
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
I would say, yes, the holiness that Peter spoke of IS different because that holiness through the New Covenant comes through the blood of Jesus! There are things we can do or not do, decisions we make to live a separated life, but we are made holy by HIM, by HIS BLOOD, not by our works!
Galatians 3 goes on to say:
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid * : for if there had been a law given which could have given life , verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe .
23 But before faith came , we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed .
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come , we are no longer * under a schoolmaster.
I just don't see how it can be any clearer than that.
_________________
"More of Him...less of me."
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Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5909
2/6/18 11:52 pm
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bradfreeman |
| Isa 58:12 wrote: | Oh, can you help me with something beloved, in Gal 3:10 about the law being a curse, is that the same Law in Ps 1:1-3? Vs 2: but his Delight is in the Law of the L-rd and in his law does he meditates day and night, is that the same Law?😶
Shalom |
First, Gal 3:10 doesn't say the Law is a a curse. It says if you "are of the works of the Law" you are under a curse because you don't/can't abide by ALL things written in it.
Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.â€
Next, Romans 14 says the its the man with weak faith who has the dietary rules.
Rom 14:1 Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions. 2 One person has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only.
Faith frees you from the Law...now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
We accept your weak faith and we don't pass judgment on you. But if you believe or suggest to your listeners that any part of our life, righteousness, blessing or the Spirit are the result of us keeping any part of the Old Covenant, you have severed yourself from Christ and blessing and put yourself back under the Deut 28 curse that Christ redeemed us from (see Gal 1:8,9 and Gal 3:10). You find yourself trying to redeem yourself from the curse by keeping the Law...and you don't/can't keep ALL of it. Your faith is in you, your performance, not Christ and His finished performance.
Christ kept it for us. He fulfilled and ended that whole works-based-righteousness system by loving us. No one achieves righteousness before God by keeping any part of the Law. The righteousness man doesn't live by a good set of religious rules...he lives by faith.
When you "fall away from the faith" you fall back into dietary rules.
1 Tim 4:4 But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron, 3 men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth. 4 For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude; 5 for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer.
Of course Paul is saying the same thing in Gal 3.
Gal 3:11 Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “The righteous man shall live by faith.†12 However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “He who practices them shall live by them.â€
So you either "live by faith" or your "live by them", but "them" are "not of faith." We don't practice "them." We practice "faith." We work the works of God. We keep His commandments.
John 6:28 Therefore they said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?†29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.â€
1 Jn 3:21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God; 22 and whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.
We keep His commandments - to believe and love.
Do you believe that love fulfills EVERY commandment?
Rom 13:8 Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. 9 For this, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,†and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.†10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
Love is the fulfillment of the Law and "any other commandment."
There is One who loved His neighbor as Himself. Jesus fulfilled the Law.
This is the love that now lives in us.
_________________
I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/ |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
2/7/18 7:08 am
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Isa 58:12 |
| bradfreeman wrote: | | Isa 58:12 wrote: | Oh, can you help me with something beloved, in Gal 3:10 about the law being a curse, is that the same Law in Ps 1:1-3? Vs 2: but his Delight is in the Law of the L-rd and in his law does he meditates day and night, is that the same Law?😶
Shalom |
First, Gal 3:10 doesn't say the Law is a a curse. It says if you "are of the works of the Law" you are under a curse because you don't/can't abide by ALL things written in it.
Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.â€
Next, Romans 14 says the its the man with weak faith who has the dietary rules.
Rom 14:1 Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions. 2 One person has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only.
Faith frees you from the Law...now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
We accept your weak faith and we don't pass judgment on you. But if you believe or suggest to your listeners that any part of our life, righteousness, blessing or the Spirit are the result of us keeping any part of the Old Covenant, you have severed yourself from Christ and blessing and put yourself back under the Deut 28 curse that Christ redeemed us from (see Gal 1:8,9 and Gal 3:10). You find yourself trying to redeem yourself from the curse by keeping the Law...and you don't/can't keep ALL of it. Your faith is in you, your performance, not Christ and His finished performance.
Christ kept it for us. He fulfilled and ended that whole works-based-righteousness system by loving us. No one achieves righteousness before God by keeping any part of the Law. The righteousness man doesn't live by a good set of religious rules...he lives by faith.
When you "fall away from the faith" you fall back into dietary rules.
1 Tim 4:4 But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron, 3 men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth. 4 For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude; 5 for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer.
Of course Paul is saying the same thing in Gal 3.
Gal 3:11 Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “The righteous man shall live by faith.†12 However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “He who practices them shall live by them.â€
So you either "live by faith" or your "live by them", but "them" are "not of faith." We don't practice "them." We practice "faith." We work the works of God. We keep His commandments.
John 6:28 Therefore they said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?†29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.â€
1 Jn 3:21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God; 22 and whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.
We keep His commandments - to believe and love.
Do you believe that love fulfills EVERY commandment?
Rom 13:8 Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. 9 For this, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,†and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.†10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
Love is the fulfillment of the Law and "any other commandment."
There is One who loved His neighbor as Himself. Jesus fulfilled the Law.
This is the love that now lives in us. |
So brad, you don't have to keep any Laws? U know, the anti-Messiah is going to be "lawless" too😶. Soooooo? & Gal is not speaking of the Law/Torah in the sense that you think. This is being set free from the law of "sin" and "death" (in Torah Deut 30:19-20) Rom 8:2, not from the Law Ps 1:1-3
But please, don't try to move on to something else, work this out. Work out your thoughts and Galatians and compare it to Psalms 1:1- 3 and Psalms 119 & see if you come out with no contradictions
Shalom 😉
_________________
Ps 122:6 Pray for the Peace of Y'erusalem |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo
Posts: 2547
2/7/18 6:05 pm
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Dave Dorsey |
Why don't you actually work your way through his post and respond point by point?
You keep asking to be shown where you are wrong (obviously you don't mean this, but you ask nonetheless) but when people take their time to write lengthy, detailed posts to you, you ignore what they are arguing and instead just shoot off a few sentences about how it doesn't mean what they think it does. Well, if that's the case, then respect them enough to respond point by point and show them how each point is incorrect. They have taken the time to endeavor to show you where you are wrong, as you asked. You should respect them enough to engage them point by point.
Otherwise, I respectfully think it would be appropriate for them, having endeavored to obey the instruction of Proverbs 26:5, to now consider the instruction of Proverbs 26:4. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
2/7/18 6:17 pm
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Isa 58:12 |
| Dave Dorsey wrote: | Why don't you actually work your way through his post and respond point by point?
You keep asking to be shown where you are wrong (obviously you don't mean this, but you ask nonetheless) but when people take their time to write lengthy, detailed posts to you, you ignore what they are arguing and instead just shoot off a few sentences about how it doesn't mean what they think it does. Well, if that's the case, then respect them enough to respond point by point and show them how each point is incorrect. They have taken the time to endeavor to show you where you are wrong, as you asked. You should respect them enough to engage them point by point.
Otherwise, I respectfully think it would be appropriate for them, having endeavored to obey the instruction of Proverbs 26:5, to now consider the instruction of Proverbs 26:4. |
Lol, dave, if that ain't one-sided LOL, when is someone going to do that for me LOL 😀. Heck I would love to sit and answer their post, but it's hard for me cuz I do this from my phone. Why don't you take something I've given you verse by verse and and break it down for me 😉. It's your idea 😉
Shalom
_________________
Ps 122:6 Pray for the Peace of Y'erusalem |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo
Posts: 2547
2/7/18 6:32 pm
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Isa 58:12 |
| Dave Dorsey wrote: | Why don't you actually work your way through his post and respond point by point?
You keep asking to be shown where you are wrong (obviously you don't mean this, but you ask nonetheless) but when people take their time to write lengthy, detailed posts to you, you ignore what they are arguing and instead just shoot off a few sentences about how it doesn't mean what they think it does. Well, if that's the case, then respect them enough to respond point by point and show them how each point is incorrect. They have taken the time to endeavor to show you where you are wrong, as you asked. You should respect them enough to engage them point by point.
Otherwise, I respectfully think it would be appropriate for them, having endeavored to obey the instruction of Proverbs 26:5, to now consider the instruction of Proverbs 26:4. |
Lol, dave, if that ain't one-sided LOL, when is someone going to do that for me LOL 😀. Heck I would love to sit and answer their post, but it's hard for me cuz I do this from my phone. Why don't you take something I've given you verse by verse and and break it down for me 😉. It's your idea 😉
Shalom
_________________
Ps 122:6 Pray for the Peace of Y'erusalem |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo
Posts: 2547
2/7/18 6:33 pm
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Dave Dorsey |
| Nothing but excuses. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
2/7/18 6:36 pm
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Isa 58:12 |
| Dave Dorsey wrote: | | Nothing but excuses. |
Lol ok, r you saying to me that I don't try to answer everybody and everything? Ok dave 😶. Then why don't you be the first right here to explain to me your denominational standard against the law in views of the scriptural standpoint of the law, just out of Psalms 119 😉
I look forward to it
Shalom
_________________
Ps 122:6 Pray for the Peace of Y'erusalem |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo
Posts: 2547
2/7/18 6:48 pm
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Dave Dorsey |
| Books worth of material have been written to you since your return here. Go to the library and give them proper responses. Why should anyone give you more when you haven't dealt faithfully with what has been given to you? |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
2/7/18 6:50 pm
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Isa 58:12 |
| Dave Dorsey wrote: | | Books worth of material have been written to you since your return here. Go to the library and give them proper responses. Why should anyone give you more when you haven't dealt faithfully with what has been given to you? |
So that's a no dave? Look my friend just show me your theology in the Old Testament how the laws done away with show me that please thank you ðŸ˜
_________________
Ps 122:6 Pray for the Peace of Y'erusalem |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo
Posts: 2547
2/7/18 7:00 pm
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Dave Dorsey |
The only thing you will be hearing from me is a plea to repent and confess Christ as your only hope. You do not have the Spirit of Christ; it would be folly to tell you anything else.
Repent from dead works and bear fruit in keeping with repentance while it is still day. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
2/7/18 7:05 pm
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Isa 58:12 |
| Dave Dorsey wrote: | The only thing you will be hearing from me is a plea to repent and confess Christ as your only hope. You do not have the Spirit of Christ; it would be folly to tell you anything else.
Repent from dead works and bear fruit in keeping with repentance while it is still day. |
What am I repenting from, what have I broke?
_________________
Ps 122:6 Pray for the Peace of Y'erusalem |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo
Posts: 2547
2/7/18 7:09 pm
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Dave Dorsey |
The Law. And you blaspheme Christ by believing yourself able to keep it even now.
Repent! Throw yourself on the mercy and grace of Christ. Receive His work and put away your own dead works. Otherwise you will be judged by the very Law you believe you can keep, and cast into the lake of fire with all who reject Christ's work. The Law is holy and perfect and good, but you are a rebel and a sinner. Your efforts to keep the Law only serve to highlight your failure to do so and increase the wrath that is being stored up for you. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
2/7/18 7:20 pm
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| Mishphatim, Judgments.. |
Isa 58:12 |
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| Something interesting in the Torah lesson |
Isa 58:12 |
Ex 23:20: behold, I sent an Angel before you, to keep you in the Way, and to bring you into the place which I have prepared. 21 beware of Him and obey His voice, provoke him not for He will not pardon your transgressions for My Name is in him
Any thoughts
_________________
Ps 122:6 Pray for the Peace of Y'erusalem |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo
Posts: 2547
2/9/18 9:46 pm
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| Re: Something interesting in the Torah lesson |
Isa 58:12 |
| Isa 58:12 wrote: | Ex 23:20: behold, I sent an Angel before you, to keep you in the Way, and to bring you into the place which I have prepared. 21 beware of Him and obey His voice, provoke him not for He will not pardon your transgressions for My Name is in him
Any thoughts |
This is a great lesson, and this is a great verse, I was hoping for some of the tell me what they see in it
_________________
Ps 122:6 Pray for the Peace of Y'erusalem |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo
Posts: 2547
2/10/18 12:15 pm
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| Re: Something interesting in the Torah lesson |
Isa 58:12 |
| Isa 58:12 wrote: | | Isa 58:12 wrote: | Ex 23:20: behold, I sent an Angel before you, to keep you in the Way, and to bring you into the place which I have prepared. 21 beware of Him and obey His voice, provoke him not for He will not pardon your transgressions for My Name is in him
Any thoughts |
This is a great lesson, and this is a great verse, I was hoping for some of the tell me what they see in it |
Shabbat shalom people, did anybody read this? This a lot of questions u have concerning G-ds Laws. Are these all done away with? R these binding? Y'shua nailed these on the cross?
_________________
Ps 122:6 Pray for the Peace of Y'erusalem |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo
Posts: 2547
2/10/18 4:30 pm
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Isa 58:12 |
I thought for sure I would have people looking at this lesson, because this whole Bible lesson is concerned with our relationship with man, this is connected with the last 5 of the Ten Words Commandments
🤔. N.T.......1 John 4:20: if a man say, I love God, and hates his brother, he is a liar for he that loves not his brother who he has seen how can you love G-d whom he hasn't seen. 21: and this Commandment have we from him, that he who loves G-d loves his brother also
Shalom
_________________
Ps 122:6 Pray for the Peace of Y'erusalem |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo
Posts: 2547
2/10/18 6:14 pm
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Carolyn Smith |
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Isa 58:12 |
| Carolyn Smith wrote: | My last post on this thread...
I don't mean to be unkind, but...as a pastor told my friend, "If no one is following you, you are not really a leader." |
I never said I was leading anyone, I'm just trying to have Bible study with believers. I'm not in charge of anyone, thanks I guess. It's like everyone's afraid, no one wants to grow, they want to keep doing the same things they've been doing. 😢
In Messiah's day it was all Law and no Y"shua, and in our days is all Y'shua & no Law...🙄
Shalom 😔
_________________
Ps 122:6 Pray for the Peace of Y'erusalem |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo
Posts: 2547
2/10/18 7:52 pm
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