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Post Isa 58:12
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
U have no clue what you're talking about, so you're saying G-d who wrote the law Ex 31:18 wrote it to put a veil over the Jewish people's minds, the same people He brought to Egypt into Freedom? That's what you believe?


You don't have to say what I'm saying. I'll say it clearly for you.
God doesn't veil minds, Satan does.

Paul continues talking about the veil in 2 Cor 4:

2 Cor 3:12 Therefore having such a hope, we use great boldness in our speech, 13 and are not like Moses, who used to put a veil over his face so that the sons of Israel would not look intently at the end of what was fading away. 14 But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ. 15 But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart; 16 but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away...
...2 Cor 4:3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Satan, the god of this world that hates Jesus, uses Moses to veil minds.
Just like Satan uses Moses to accuse.

John 5:45 Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father; the one who accuses you is Moses, in whom you have set your hope.

When Jesus nailed the law to the cross, he disarmed the accuser.

Col 2:14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.


Please, don't ever speak for me, I would never think or talk the way you do. Another gigantic goofy problem in your theology brad is satan is NOT the god of this world, & he does not put a veil over people's eyes with G-d's Torah Law that's ridiculous🙄 You give him way too much power. Y'shua/G-d says he is a servant. Matt 4:10; get thee behind Me satan, for it is written you shall Worship the L-rd your G-d and only Him shall you "serve"

hasatan can't do anything the Father doesn't let him do, hence the story Job....
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Post bradfreeman
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Please, don't ever speak for me, I would never think or talk the way you do. Another gigantic goofy problem in your theology brad is satan is NOT the god of this world, you give him way too much power. Y'shua/G-d says he is a servant. Matt 4:10;


Well I hope our discussion will bring you to repentance. So you will begin to speak and think like Paul and give Jesus credit for fulfilling the reason He came - to fulfill the Law.

So you believe your Father, not the liar, "has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God?" Wow.

Mat 4:8 Again, the devil took Him to a very high mountain and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory; 9 and he said to Him, “All these things I will give You, if You fall down and worship me.” 10 Then Jesus said to him, “Go, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and serve Him only.’” 11 Then the devil left Him; and behold, angels came and began to minister to Him.

If you read 2 Cor 3 and 4, it's clear that it is "the reading of the old covenant" that veils and hardens minds and hearts. And it is clear that Christ removes that veil.

2 Cor 3:14 But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ. 15 But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart; 16 but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

It's pretty clear what a veil does. It keeps you from seeing. It veils the gospel

2 Cor 4:3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

God isn't willing that any perish. So He isn't veiling the minds of "those who are perishing" so they won't see the light of the gospel.
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Post Isa 58:12
🙄, brad, what is your thoughts on the Bethel Church thread, what do you think about that, how do you think that came about?

& What's ur take on gay pastors?
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Post bradfreeman
Isa 58:12 wrote:
🙄, brad, what is your thoughts on the Bethel Church thread, what do you think about that, how do you think that came about?

& What's ur take on gay pastors?


I've asked many questions that remain unanswered. Try this one:

So you believe your Father, not the liar, "has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God?"
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2/22/18 2:27 pm


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Post Isa 58:12
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
🙄, brad, what is your thoughts on the Bethel Church thread, what do you think about that, how do you think that came about?

& What's ur take on gay pastors?


I've asked many questions that remain unanswered. Try this one:

So you believe your Father, not the liar, "has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God?"


That's what you been doing to me this whole conversation brad, answering a question with a question. I asked you two questions I didn't ask you to ask me questions, I asked you two questions do you have an answer? That's all I want to hear

And that's a lie that I don't answer your questions, I try to answer as many of the multiple questions you ask at a time
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Post bradfreeman
Isa 58:12 wrote:
And that's a lie that I don't answer your questions, I try to answer as many of the multiple questions you ask at a time


Let's not allow our dialogue devolve into anger. It would be a lie if I actually said you don't answer my questions. Apparently, you read my posts like you read your Bible. Laughing I actually said I've asked many questions that remain unanswered. You have answered a few...not many.

I want to talk about scripture. Are there any other scriptures you'd like to discuss? Perhaps a scripture you feel applies to gay pastors or Bethel church practices?
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Post Isa 58:12
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
And that's a lie that I don't answer your questions, I try to answer as many of the multiple questions you ask at a time


Let's not allow our dialogue devolve into anger. It would be a lie if I actually said you don't answer my questions. Apparently, you read my posts like you read your Bible. Laughing I actually said I've asked many questions that remain unanswered. You have answered a few...not many.

I want to talk about scripture. Are there any other scriptures you'd like to discuss? Perhaps a scripture you feel applies to gay pastors or Bethel church practices?


Lol, brad, believe me you don't bother me, what bothers me is you never answer anything I say, and it's funny you say I don't answer you lol. I ask you a question and you divert the conversation to what you believe the New Testament saying never addressing what I showed you in the Torah

Sure let's discuss the Bethel Church practices in scripture, what do you believe about it. Lol, I didn't think my questions were that hard 😮
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Post bradfreeman
[quote="Isa 58:12"]
bradfreeman wrote:
Sure let's discuss the Bethel Church practices in scripture, what do you believe about it. Lol, I didn't think my questions were that hard 😮


Sure, what practice would you like to discuss and what scripture do you believe applies to it?
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Post Nature Boy Florida
So, based on the above responses, we have two dudes that answer questions neither of them asks.

If that's the case - this will go on ad infinitum.

Best of luck with that guys.
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Post Isa 58:12
[quote="bradfreeman"]
Isa 58:12 wrote:
bradfreeman wrote:
Sure let's discuss the Bethel Church practices in scripture, what do you believe about it. Lol, I didn't think my questions were that hard 😮


Sure, what practice would you like to discuss and what scripture do you believe applies to it?


I'll ask it again, what do "you" think about the Beth-El thread and stuff in that? I want to know what "you" think about what's going on there 🙄

If you just can't answer my simple questions don't even bother
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2/22/18 8:30 pm


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Post diakoneo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8rUZfQJjPY



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Post Isa 58:12
diakoneo wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8rUZfQJjPY



Laughing


That was funny pastor
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Post bradfreeman
Isa 58:12 wrote:
If you just can't answer my simple questions don't even bother


There's too much in that thread. Narrow down by asking about a specific practice and the scripture related to it that you'd like to discuss. If you don't have a specific practice you're interested in, there's no point in discussing the scripture related to it.

I've been to Bethel and enjoyed my visit.
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2/23/18 6:45 am


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Post Isa 58:12
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
If you just can't answer my simple questions don't even bother


There's too much in that thread. Narrow down by asking about a specific practice and the scripture related to it that you'd like to discuss. If you don't have a specific practice you're interested in, there's no point in discussing the scripture related to it.

I've been to Bethel and enjoyed my visit.


I'm not asking u to write a gone with the wind sorta answer brad, I just want to know ur basic thoughts, basic. I can understand why you are a hard time answering this, then again I can.
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Post bradfreeman
Isa 58:12 wrote:
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
If you just can't answer my simple questions don't even bother


There's too much in that thread. Narrow down by asking about a specific practice and the scripture related to it that you'd like to discuss. If you don't have a specific practice you're interested in, there's no point in discussing the scripture related to it.

I've been to Bethel and enjoyed my visit.


I'm not asking u to write a gone with the wind sorta answer brad, I just want to know ur basic thoughts, basic. I can understand why you are a hard time answering this, then again I can.


Here are my basic thoughts. I like Bethel. They take Jesus to the streets.

What are your basic thoughts?
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Post Isa 58:12
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
If you just can't answer my simple questions don't even bother


There's too much in that thread. Narrow down by asking about a specific practice and the scripture related to it that you'd like to discuss. If you don't have a specific practice you're interested in, there's no point in discussing the scripture related to it.

I've been to Bethel and enjoyed my visit.


I'm not asking u to write a gone with the wind sorta answer brad, I just want to know ur basic thoughts, basic. I can understand why you are a hard time answering this, then again I can.


Here are my basic thoughts. I like Bethel. They take Jesus to the streets.

What are your basic thoughts?


They're taking that message to the streets, & you see nothing wrong with that? Is that who Messiah is? Look at what all dave said, I agree with him, that's a big problem....

& U being ok with it strengthens it
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Post bradfreeman
Isa 58:12 wrote:
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
If you just can't answer my simple questions don't even bother


There's too much in that thread. Narrow down by asking about a specific practice and the scripture related to it that you'd like to discuss. If you don't have a specific practice you're interested in, there's no point in discussing the scripture related to it.

I've been to Bethel and enjoyed my visit.


I'm not asking u to write a gone with the wind sorta answer brad, I just want to know ur basic thoughts, basic. I can understand why you are a hard time answering this, then again I can.


Here are my basic thoughts. I like Bethel. They take Jesus to the streets.

What are your basic thoughts?


They're taking that message to the streets, & you see nothing wrong with that? Is that who Messiah is? Look at what all dave said, I agree with him, that's a big problem....

& U being ok with it strengthens it


The message they take to the streets (and I've taken the message to the streets with them in Redding), is the Good News of God's love expressed in what Jesus did for people and what He wants to do for people.
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Post Isa 58:12
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
If you just can't answer my simple questions don't even bother


There's too much in that thread. Narrow down by asking about a specific practice and the scripture related to it that you'd like to discuss. If you don't have a specific practice you're interested in, there's no point in discussing the scripture related to it.

I've been to Bethel and enjoyed my visit.


I'm not asking u to write a gone with the wind sorta answer brad, I just want to know ur basic thoughts, basic. I can understand why you are a hard time answering this, then again I can.


Here are my basic thoughts. I like Bethel. They take Jesus to the streets.

What are your basic thoughts?


They're taking that message to the streets, & you see nothing wrong with that? Is that who Messiah is? Look at what all dave said, I agree with him, that's a big problem....

& U being ok with it strengthens it


The message they take to the streets (and I've taken the message to the streets with them in Redding), is the Good News of God's love expressed in what Jesus did for people and what He wants to do for people.


I know redding in California, I had a cousin that was hooked on drugs and he was sent up there for a while in some church. That's why I was asking you if you were apostolic, cuz he was say the same things almost verbatim what you're saying.

He didn't have repentance message either, he just said you had to have faith & believe, and that's not what the Bible says, it's both
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Post bradfreeman
Isa 58:12 wrote:
He didn't have repentance message either, he just said you had to have faith & believe, and that's not what the Bible says, it's both


He absolutely did have the repentance message.

Old covenant repentance was redoubling your efforts to keep the rules.
New covenant repentance is coming from some wrong mindset and heartset to faith in Christ.

Repent - from the Greek metanoia
meta = to change
noia = knowledge

Repentance or coming to a right belief by changing the way you think starts at a different point for everyone depending on what their wrong belief is. It always ends, however, at faith in Christ.

3 quick examples:


For Hebrews, it meant leaving behind a system of "dead works", works that only ministered death. They had to change the way they think, repent, and move from faith in dead work to faith in God.

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,

For Romans, it meant leaving behind the belief in Caesar, that Caesar was Lord, and moving to faith in Christ. They had to change the way they think and move from faith in Caesar to faith in Christ.

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

For the Gnostics, it meant leaving behind the belief that they had no sin, needed no savior and moving to acknowledging their sin and their need.

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
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Post Isa 58:12
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
He didn't have repentance message either, he just said you had to have faith & believe, and that's not what the Bible says, it's both


He absolutely did have the repentance message.

Old covenant repentance was redoubling your efforts to keep the rules.
New covenant repentance is coming from some wrong mindset and heartset to faith in Christ.

Repent - from the Greek metanoia
meta = to change
noia = knowledge

Repentance or coming to a right belief by changing the way you think starts at a different point for everyone depending on what their wrong belief is. It always ends, however, at faith in Christ.

3 quick examples:


For Hebrews, it meant leaving behind a system of "dead works", works that only ministered death. They had to change the way they think, repent, and move from faith in dead work to faith in God.

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,

For Romans, it meant leaving behind the belief in Caesar, that Caesar was Lord, and moving to faith in Christ. They had to change the way they think and move from faith in Caesar to faith in Christ.

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

For the Gnostics, it meant leaving behind the belief that they had no sin, needed no savior and moving to acknowledging their sin and their need.

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


😕🙄, Why don't you give me the Hebrew meaning of repent, which is where the Greek one comes from. The Greek cannot change the Hebrew writings. & Look at your definition in Greek anyways, u broke it up, meta means to change, noia means Knowledge, & Knowledge is G-ds Torah

Rom 7:7; what shall we say then? Is the law sin? *G-d forbid*, no, I had not *known* sin "but by" the Torah/Law. Prov 1:7; the fear of the L-rd is the beginning of Knowledge, but "fools" despise *Wisdom* and *Instruction/Torah*

"If" u don't (fear) Adonai, 1:29; p for that they hated Knowledge, and *did not choose* the fear of the L-rd. Prov 13:14; the Law/Torah of the "Wise" is a *Fountain of Life*, to depart from the snares of death & straight across the page in my Bible Prov 14:27; the fear of the L-rd is a *Fountain of Life* to depart from the snares of "death", not keeping God's Commandments/Laws/Instructions Det 30:19?

(Fear) Deut 8:6 explains this Perfectly: therefore you shall keep the Commandments of the L-rd "your" G-d, to "walk"(1Jn 1:6) in his Ways, and to (fear) Him, Prov 1:7. My question is to all of us, is He *"our"* G-d? Then let's do what He said and *walk* in his Ways. Walking is action word.....😇
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