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 Why Evangelical Young People Don't Wait To Have Sex (L) |
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This is an old online CNN post on Evangelical young people not waiting until marriage to have sex.
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/27/why-young-christians-arent-waiting-anymore/
Is it any better in the COG or other Pentecostal denominations, with the emphasis on holy living? Is it any worse than it was in Gen X? It seemed like all the gen X teens and college students were having sex when I was younger, too.
I consider US culture, and it is really messed up in the area of sexuality and marriage, IMO. My wife, an Indonesia, lamented that at a mega church event for young people she visited, that based on conversations she had with the young women, it seemed like few of them would be virgins at marriage. She discipled a number of young women, and so many had had problems with fornication. It seems the young men have the same problem.
My wife and I waited until marriage. Here are some of the reasons I waited.
- I always wanted to live in a way that pleased the Lord. I didn't want to put myself in a situation where it would be hard to get back to living right. (Including getting an unbeliever pregnant, or something along those lines.)
- A young pastor when I was about 12 preached a long, uncomfortable series on the dangers of fornication, heavy petting, homosexuality, masturbation. We were encouraged not to date a non-Christian, since we weren't supposed to marry non-Christians.
- When I read the Bible, I saw the importance of two being one flesh. In the Old Testament, a man who took a woman's virginity was required to marry her. That helped me realize how serious this was.
My wife is from Indonesia. It is at least the norm and the expectation for bride and groom to be virgins on their wedding day. I'm sure there are cases where this does not happen, but it certainly seems the norm. And it seems like a lot more are virgins at marriage based on conversations with people over the decade or so I spent there.
Indonesia is predominantly Muslim. There are other non-Christian societies where virginity at marriage is the norm. In Indonesia, virginity is an expectation for Christians, as well.
It seems like if American Christians talk about this, someone might treat the idea of young people being virgins until marriage as hopeless, and then tell a story about losing their virginity in the back seat of some model car to so and so in middle school or high school.
I think part of it is the general soteriology and theology of holiness of evangelicals. Jesus taught it was better to chop of one's hand if it caused one to sin rather than to go to Hell with it. But a lot of modern Evangelicals seem to think it doesn't matter if you sin because you can just ask for forgiveness. The one time I can find where a passage in scripture warns that God will punish or get vengence on them has to do with if they commit fornication. There seems to be a lack of the fear of the Lord, in general, among Americans and also among many Evangelicals.
What are some things that can be done to change the culture, first and foremost in the church? Here are some ideas:
- Clear preaching and teaching on the subject designed to instill in young people a decision to abstain from fornication to please God.
- Creating a culture in church in which children can learn about sex from adults (parents and church leaders) in an appropriate and mature context. (Moses read all those sex laws with the babies and small children present. We need Biblical ethics about this, not Victorian ethics.)
- Return to Biblical restoration of fallen saints and church discipline. Paul said not to eat with someone called a brother who was a fornicator.
- Churches and Christian parents rethinking dating culture-- rethinking sending middle schoolers to dances to slow dance, letting them 'go with' a boyfriend or girlfriend at a young age, rethinking letting a 15-year-old drive off into the dark of night with a 17-year-old in a van.
- Encouraging parents to teach their children about sex.
- Engouraging young people testify to being virgins prior to marriage and at their wedding, or overcoming the sin of fornication after their conversion.
- Encouraging young people to state a preference for a virgin to marry. Promoting the advantages of marrying a virgin as a part of Bible teaching when tweens and teens are present.
I am sure there are many other things.
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Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11849
12/25/17 10:09 am
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| Re: Why Evangelical Young People Don't Wait To Have Sex (L) |
FLRon |
| Link wrote: | This is an old online CNN post on Evangelical young people not waiting until marriage to have sex.
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/27/why-young-christians-arent-waiting-anymore/
Is it any better in the COG or other Pentecostal denominations, with the emphasis on holy living? Is it any worse than it was in Gen X? It seemed like all the gen X teens and college students were having sex when I was younger, too.
I consider US culture, and it is really messed up in the area of sexuality and marriage, IMO. My wife, an Indonesia, lamented that at a mega church event for young people she visited, that based on conversations she had with the young women, it seemed like few of them would be virgins at marriage. She discipled a number of young women, and so many had had problems with fornication. It seems the young men have the same problem.
My wife and I waited until marriage. Here are some of the reasons I waited.
- I always wanted to live in a way that pleased the Lord. I didn't want to put myself in a situation where it would be hard to get back to living right. (Including getting an unbeliever pregnant, or something along those lines.)
- A young pastor when I was about 12 preached a long, uncomfortable series on the dangers of fornication, heavy petting, homosexuality, masturbation. We were encouraged not to date a non-Christian, since we weren't supposed to marry non-Christians.
- When I read the Bible, I saw the importance of two being one flesh. In the Old Testament, a man who took a woman's virginity was required to marry her. That helped me realize how serious this was.
My wife is from Indonesia. It is at least the norm and the expectation for bride and groom to be virgins on their wedding day. I'm sure there are cases where this does not happen, but it certainly seems the norm. And it seems like a lot more are virgins at marriage based on conversations with people over the decade or so I spent there.
Indonesia is predominantly Muslim. There are other non-Christian societies where virginity at marriage is the norm. In Indonesia, virginity is an expectation for Christians, as well.
It seems like if American Christians talk about this, someone might treat the idea of young people being virgins until marriage as hopeless, and then tell a story about losing their virginity in the back seat of some model car to so and so in middle school or high school.
I think part of it is the general soteriology and theology of holiness of evangelicals. Jesus taught it was better to chop of one's hand if it caused one to sin rather than to go to Hell with it. But a lot of modern Evangelicals seem to think it doesn't matter if you sin because you can just ask for forgiveness. The one time I can find where a passage in scripture warns that God will punish or get vengence on them has to do with if they commit fornication. There seems to be a lack of the fear of the Lord, in general, among Americans and also among many Evangelicals.
What are some things that can be done to change the culture, first and foremost in the church? Here are some ideas:
- Clear preaching and teaching on the subject designed to instill in young people a decision to abstain from fornication to please God.
- Creating a culture in church in which children can learn about sex from adults (parents and church leaders) in an appropriate and mature context. (Moses read all those sex laws with the babies and small children present. We need Biblical ethics about this, not Victorian ethics.)
- Return to Biblical restoration of fallen saints and church discipline. Paul said not to eat with someone called a brother who was a fornicator.
- Churches and Christian parents rethinking dating culture-- rethinking sending middle schoolers to dances to slow dance, letting them 'go with' a boyfriend or girlfriend at a young age, rethinking letting a 15-year-old drive off into the dark of night with a 17-year-old in a van.
- Encouraging parents to teach their children about sex.
- Engouraging young people testify to being virgins prior to marriage and at their wedding, or overcoming the sin of fornication after their conversion.
- Encouraging young people to state a preference for a virgin to marry. Promoting the advantages of marrying a virgin as a part of Bible teaching when tweens and teens are present.
I am sure there are many other things. |
Well, judging from my extremely small sample size of people I know personally, I’d say it’s no different in the COG or any other Holiness Church. I know of one young lady “caught in the act†at Lee who was given the boot. I also know a former pastor who while attending Lee “somehow†managed to get his girlfriend pregnant. He was able to hide it as it happened near the end of their final year in school.
Make of it what you will. Hopefully the two examples I know of are by far the exception rather than the rule.
_________________
“Hell will be filled with people that didn’t cuss, didn’t drink, and may even have been baptized. Why? Because none of those things makes someone a Christian.”
Voddie Baucham |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 769
12/28/17 5:53 pm
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| Re: Why Evangelical Young People Don't Wait To Have Sex (L) |
Old Time Country Preacher |
| FLRon wrote: | | I also know a former pastor who while attending Lee “somehow†managed to get his girlfriend pregnant. He was able to hide it. |
Another Incarnation? |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15564
12/28/17 5:56 pm
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| I have concluded that there may not be solution.... |
Aaron Scott |
Consider if you were trying to "help" someone NOT eat when they were hungry. You might help them for a while. You might get their mind on other things, etc. But at some point, the appetite is going to demand food.
I have come more and more to believe that sex is like that. We know that it is a natural appetite. We can preach about it, harp on it, etc., but as the statistics show, we have not been very successful in helping our children stay away from illicit sex.
I think I read a statistic a few years ago that only 4% of people over 21 are virgins.
The problem arises, at least in part, I think, from the fact that if we preach "sex is bad, bad, bad!" we can warp a person's thinking. We might cause a person to either be repulsed by something that is otherwise good...or cause them to think that it is a very dirty and filthy matter. Or, on the other hand, it can become like the forbidden fruit--and that can cause kids to go after it.
But if we say, "sex is wonderful, but you have to wait," well, teens aren't known for being patient, are they? So we almost DARE not act like sex is a wonderful thing, since that might send the wrong sort of encouragement to the teens. But to tell them it is bad, well, that's not much better--since we know that it is likely most churches that DO speak to teenage sexuality DO act like it something that shouldn't be talked about in polite company, or is somehow displeasing to God.
And to say little or nothing...same result, I imagine.
I realized at some point that if God hadn't made me "unhandsome," I would almost certainly have not made it to marriage as a virgin. I had enough semi-opportunities even without being handsome. Had I pressed the matter, I likely could have wound up as one of those statistics.
Consider another point.... Have you ever heard of gays saying that they prayed and prayed to get rid of their illicit feelings, but nothing changed? I know that even as a straight teenager, I likely prayed tens of thousands of prayers that God would help me not to even think about sex. Didn't work.
Someone will say, "Well, God knew that one day you'd be married...." But couldn't God have "turned it off" UNTIL I got to marriage? Why not?
The truth, I think, is that no matter how much we preach against it, plenty of church kids are going to have sex. It's an appetite that will not yield for long to platitudes and the such.
So what do we do? We teach them as balanced a view as we can (since one extreme or another is likely to have unintended consequences), and at the same time understand that a significant percentage is going to mess up anyway. And if they do...we simply love them and restore them, encouraging them again and again.
While they may have sex before marriage anyway, I am convinced that if we love and encourage them, they almost certainly not mess up as many times as they could have. For instance, a kid that gets a great touch in a revival, may go in the strength of that blessing for a long time...time that would have otherwise been spent fornicating.
Thankfully, some kids DO make it--even ones that are beautiful/handsome. But even with the poor statistics, if we are able to help SOME, that is till better than surrendering and helping none. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6032
12/28/17 6:45 pm
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| Re: I have concluded that there may not be solution.... |
Link |
| Aaron Scott wrote: | Consider if you were trying to "help" someone NOT eat when they were hungry. You might help them for a while. You might get their mind on other things, etc. But at some point, the appetite is going to demand food.
I have come more and more to believe that sex is like that. We know that it is a natural appetite. We can preach about it, harp on it, etc., but as the statistics show, we have not been very successful in helping our children stay away from illicit sex.
I think I read a statistic a few years ago that only 4% of people over 21 are virgins. |
I read that 3% in the US are virgins at marriage. If I remember right, the site I read this on seemed to indicate that these tend to be religious people, not just Christian, but other minority religions too where virginity is important.
Sex isn't quite the same as eating. One may crave sex, and one may crave food. If he doesn't have sex, it won't kill him. If he doesn't eat, he will die. And the desire for food and water for those who do not have it is more overwhelming. People stranded in the mountains and on boats or islands have resorted to cannibalism. It's a desire, but not us fundamental as food.
Your post sounded sort of defeatist to me.
| Quote: |
So what do we do? We teach them as balanced a view as we can (since one extreme or another is likely to have unintended consequences), and at the same time understand that a significant percentage is going to mess up anyway. And if they do...we simply love them and restore them, encouraging them again and again. |
Can't we do something bigger than just expect there to be a lot of sin? A defeatist attitude toward sin doesn't seem to fit with the Holiness mindset. It seems to fit more with a certain type of Baptist thinking, that 'It's not a salvation issue. You can be forgiven." I'm not saying all Baptists are that way, of course.
Let's consider a few generations back. Virginity at marriage was a normal thing. I read some statistics from about 100 years ago, and the average age of marriage wasn't that different. I had the impression that a lot of people got married in their late teens way back when, but my folks hail from Appalachia, and young marriage probably wasn't common everywhere in the US 100 years ago.
Before the sexual revolution, young people were more likely to get the impression from society, parents, schools, and even church, that sex before marriage was wrong. (That's my impression as a Gen-Xer who didn't live back then.) Women learned that if they lost their virginity, it might be hard to get married. Marriage was held in high regard.
Nowadays, some men think marriage is for chumps who want to give away half their belongings. Some of the women look down on other women who decide to be homemakers, an indication that they value career above marriage and family. The priorities have changed.
But the fact still remains, our ancestors lived in a culture where virginity at marriage was a much more common thing, and fornication was less common. So how do we create a culture, a subculture if necessary, where young people... and people of all ages... are serious about sexual morality? One measure of that is young people being virgins at marriage. Another is abstaining from adultery in marriage. Another would be lower divorce rates.
We may not have to go to this extreme, but the Amish have preserved their culture. They do not have TVs telling their kids that having sex is the highest good. Our kids get a conflicting message. They see in the movies and on TV that it is normal and good to meet someone and then take that person home or to a hotel for sex. This is presented as a normal thing, and a cool thing. Nowadays, it's worse, because not only do they see that in movies on TV, they can just click on their cell phones that their eyes are always glued to, and watch movies of people having sex.
Should we parent in a radically different way from those around us? How do we create our own culture where children's minds are protected from unnecessary temptation, and where they are not so sheltered and stunted that they cannot understand the world around them?
If past generations had better sexual ethics in society, we can, too. Should our churches be worse than non-church-attenders in the 1950's in the way they behave?
I held out, too. I had opportunities to stumble if I'd chosen to take them, four specific opportunities come to mind, and I wasn't looking for them. For me, it was a matter of personal conviction with the Lord. What can we do in the discipleship arena to help young people with this?
I do teach my own children to wait until they are married. We also have a 'no dating until you are old enough to get married' policy in the household. My oldest is in 10th grade, and where we live, there is less pressure to date.
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Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11849
12/28/17 9:19 pm
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Cojak |
I must say, I wasn't much of a Christian in my teens anyway. But dadgummit I always dated the 'good girls'. I tried and I tried. even found some good verses from S of Solomon, scripture didn't even work. I DO NOT REMEMBER ANY teaching or sermons concerning SEX. It was just Understood that 'good' boys and girls did not 'go all the way'.
As a result, I married as a virgin and married a virgin. And lemme tell you a one night honey moon before you have to go back to the base just does not get it.
BUT guys, I was there.Things were much different in the earlier years. Most girls remained virgin just because 'society' at the time expected it. No girl wanted to be considered (at the time) 'damaged goods'. It was always strange to me, the guy was okay, but the girl was damaged goods!
I knew MANY boys who bragged about having sex in HS but learned most were lying. Boys would have been very active 'sexually' had it not been for 'SOCIETY' at the time labeling any girl a 'bad girl' if she was loose, even if she did not become pregnant. I know for a fact that kept many girls from 'going all the way'.
With society today I can understand the low number of virgins' who make it to marriage. Today it is SOCIETY that determines sexual activity, and SOCIETY seems to smile on it. There is now, "Recreational Sex", sex just for fun, but still mostly for the boy.
I was surprised to read RR's comment a coupel years ago that when a guy asked a girl to the prom, SEX was expected afterwards! 
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
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http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
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Posts: 24277
12/28/17 10:46 pm
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Link |
| Cojak wrote: | | As a result, I married as a virgin and married a virgin. And lemme tell you a one night honey moon before you have to go back to the base just does not get it. |
A married couple has the rest of their lives.
| Quote: |
BUT guys, I was there.Things were much different in the earlier years. Most girls remained virgin just because 'society' at the time expected it. No girl wanted to be considered (at the time) 'damaged goods'. It was always strange to me, the guy was okay, but the girl was damaged goods!
I knew MANY boys who bragged about having sex in HS but learned most were lying. Boys would have been very active 'sexually' had it not been for 'SOCIETY' at the time labeling any girl a 'bad girl' if she was loose, even if she did not become pregnant. I know for a fact that kept many girls from 'going all the way'. |
The double standard isn't good. But today's solution of the girls enjoying sleeping around has really gone in the same direction. When the topic has come up in Indonesia (after a cumulative total of 10 years spent there), it seems like men and women are both expected to be virgins at marriage and there is a stigma attached to not doing it. Maybe some of the boys brag about it now. I suspect rates of virginity at marriage are lower. I looked up virginity in Indonesia, and saw an article on reconstructive surgery for women (which I think ought to be illegal if its intended to deceive), and complaints from feminists about expectations for female virginity.
| Quote: |
With society today I can understand the low number of virgins' who make it to marriage. Today it is SOCIETY that determines sexual activity, and SOCIETY seems to smile on it. There is now, "Recreational Sex", sex just for fun, but still mostly for the boy. |
There have to be some girls choosing to participate unless the boys are into the homosexual thing or something else even weirder.
| Quote: |
I was surprised to read RR's comment a coupel years ago that when a guy asked a girl to the prom, SEX was expected afterwards! |
That's scary. One of my little girls asked me if she could go to the prom when she got older (in light of the no dating rule.)
I've read comments from men online that if they shell out a lot of money on a date, they expect sex. Poor high school boys who spend ridiculous amounts on a prom may think the same thing.
This makes me reconsider my vague career plans. Should I be in Asia around prom time for my girls, and let my son be back in the west somewhere in college?
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Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11849
12/29/17 12:06 am
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Resident Skeptic |
Many Evangelicals do not wait because their love for God is lacking or they never were converted to begin with.
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"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
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12/29/17 1:09 am
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| Resident and Cojak... |
Aaron Scott |
| Resident Skeptic wrote: | | Many Evangelicals do not wait because their love for God is lacking or they never were converted to begin with. |
All sin works this way.
But to your comment about being "defeatist," I would argue that I am being a "realist." When our youth's sexual statistics are no better than the world's...it's not because the church has failed to say anything. I imagine that most boys and girls understand (even if they don't obey) that sex before marriage is, at the very least, not the best thing.
No, you won't die from not having sex, but the appetite is just as strong. You spoke of resorting to cannibalism. Consider that some folks have such an unrelenting sex drive that they wind up sleeping with people that utterly appall them in the light of morning. No, you won't die...but the sex drive feels as much a "must" as these other things, I imagine.
If you are dying of thirst, then, yes, water is more important than sex. But when you have plenty to eat/drink, then this other appetite now comes to the forefront.
Consider that churches would almost have to doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING regarding teenage sex to get the sort of terrible statistics we are hearing about Christian youth. Do you believe that the church is doing absolutely nothing? I don't. I just think that sex is a powerful force that, despite sermons and teaching, leads our youth astray at about the same rate as the world's youth.
Of course, the greater permissiveness and sex-centric thinking of our society doesn't help. But consider that King David, with numerous wives and concubines...still "had" to have another man's wife. Amnon "had" to have Tamar.
Cojak, I was thinking about something you said.... I DO believe that more people made it to marriage as virgins in previous generations. But the problem, I think, is not whether more got to marriage as virgins, but how did the statistics for Christian youth compare with those of non-Christian youth? That is, if approximately the same "no sexual experience" percentage for both groups was the same, then it would seem that it was not so much the church helping the youth, but the sexual zeitgeist of the times. Make sense? |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6032
12/29/17 6:15 am
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Preacher777 |
[quote="Resident Skeptic"]Many Evangelicals do not wait because their love for God is lacking or they never were converted to begin with.[/quote]
Great point RS. I am convinced that telling people to wait beofre sex and showing them what the Bible says will never be effective without showing people how to have the power to wait. Unfortunately, the "sinners prayer without repentance ticket to heaven salvation offering" without teaching on coming out of the world will not produce sexually pure people.
I was 25 and single when I accepted Christ. The fact that I made a lot of money in the secular realm added o sexual temptations. ONE THING I learned in 16 years as a single man who often traveled for business was that it took a 100% serious commitment o prayer, the Word and guarding my eyes. I did not have a television because the shows in the 80s-90s were too tempting to me (compare that to the present temptations). My only hope was an hour or 2 of prayer and the Word every morning, church Sunday morning, night, Wednesday night, prayer meetings and anything other time I could be around Christian people.
I remember hesitating when my mentor told me I neede to go to a Saturday night Bible study with him and his wife. He told me, "what are you as a young single man going to do on s Saturday night other than get into sin" I agreed and went with the Christians.
I will sum things up by saying that the only hope a young man has is to pursue being a Holy Ghost marine! No disrespect to those who mention that we teach ipurity but Christian singles still are having sex. However, back when Sunday morning, night and Wednesday night were the norm for Christians I would tell pastors not to ever think their preaching apart from hours of a dalily personal devotional life would ever keep me or any other young man clean. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 434
12/29/17 7:01 am
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| Re: I have concluded that there may not be solution.... |
Nature Boy Florida |
| Aaron Scott wrote: | Consider if you were trying to "help" someone NOT eat when they were hungry. You might help them for a while. You might get their mind on other things, etc. But at some point, the appetite is going to demand food.
I have come more and more to believe that sex is like that. We know that it is a natural appetite. We can preach about it, harp on it, etc., but as the statistics show, we have not been very successful in helping our children stay away from illicit sex.
I think I read a statistic a few years ago that only 4% of people over 21 are virgins.
The problem arises, at least in part, I think, from the fact that if we preach "sex is bad, bad, bad!" we can warp a person's thinking. We might cause a person to either be repulsed by something that is otherwise good...or cause them to think that it is a very dirty and filthy matter. Or, on the other hand, it can become like the forbidden fruit--and that can cause kids to go after it.
But if we say, "sex is wonderful, but you have to wait," well, teens aren't known for being patient, are they? So we almost DARE not act like sex is a wonderful thing, since that might send the wrong sort of encouragement to the teens. But to tell them it is bad, well, that's not much better--since we know that it is likely most churches that DO speak to teenage sexuality DO act like it something that shouldn't be talked about in polite company, or is somehow displeasing to God.
And to say little or nothing...same result, I imagine.
I realized at some point that if God hadn't made me "unhandsome," I would almost certainly have not made it to marriage as a virgin. I had enough semi-opportunities even without being handsome. Had I pressed the matter, I likely could have wound up as one of those statistics.
Consider another point.... Have you ever heard of gays saying that they prayed and prayed to get rid of their illicit feelings, but nothing changed? I know that even as a straight teenager, I likely prayed tens of thousands of prayers that God would help me not to even think about sex. Didn't work.
Someone will say, "Well, God knew that one day you'd be married...." But couldn't God have "turned it off" UNTIL I got to marriage? Why not?
The truth, I think, is that no matter how much we preach against it, plenty of church kids are going to have sex. It's an appetite that will not yield for long to platitudes and the such.
So what do we do? We teach them as balanced a view as we can (since one extreme or another is likely to have unintended consequences), and at the same time understand that a significant percentage is going to mess up anyway. And if they do...we simply love them and restore them, encouraging them again and again.
While they may have sex before marriage anyway, I am convinced that if we love and encourage them, they almost certainly not mess up as many times as they could have. For instance, a kid that gets a great touch in a revival, may go in the strength of that blessing for a long time...time that would have otherwise been spent fornicating.
Thankfully, some kids DO make it--even ones that are beautiful/handsome. But even with the poor statistics, if we are able to help SOME, that is till better than surrendering and helping none. |
You're not going to help anyone with this defeatist mentality.
Give them the reason God wants them to be pure - and they will follow.
Also - teach the parents to keep their kids out of compromising situations - don't let them be alone with a boyfriend or girlfriend.
I can't tell you how many young friends that were ladies told of being date raped for their first time of intercourse - and then thought - what the heck, I'm no longer a virgin - why wait anymore? It happened OFTEN.
Kids and parents must be taught the reasons for staying sexually pure - and then teach them how to do it.
You will get better results.
_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16619
12/29/17 7:53 am
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| Re: Resident and Cojak... |
Cojak |
| Aaron Scott wrote: | ....
Cojak, I was thinking about something you said.... I DO believe that more people made it to marriage as virgins in previous generations. But the problem, I think, is not whether more got to marriage as virgins, but how did the statistics for Christian youth compare with those of non-Christian youth? That is, if approximately the same "no sexual experience" percentage for both groups was the same, then it would seem that it was not so much the church helping the youth, but the sexual zeitgeist of the times. Make sense? |
I agree with the comment before what I have quoted where you said the statistics are the same if the church had done nothing. And I too believe the church has tried MUCH harder than in the 1950s.
But to the quote, I know friends who were not Christian nor church goers who made it to marriage as virgins. The pressure of a society who looked down on (mostly girls) kids who engaged in sex before marriage made the difference then, NOT the church. NOT I repeat NOT to put the church down, but sex was NOT discussed in public by NICE people. Shucks even the word 'pregnant' was avoided, we used 'She is in a family way.'
In my first 17 years of life in the COG and dad pastoring 6 churches I only know of one 'Christian' girl who became pregnant. She was not a member of our church, but I knew her very well. I dated her once myself. She was starved for love. She was from a large family of 12 with a dad who was a dogmatic TOE-THE LINE Church of God guy. The girl was sent to a sister's house (eventually my sister in law) in Detroit and forced to put the child up for adoption which she did then came back home to live a 'shamed' life for a few years.
Today this is one of the sweetest dedicated Christian lady you could ever know. Since we are nearly kin now we see her occasionally, she and her hubby are leading members in their local COG. 
To add a comparison I only KNOW of one girl not COG who became pregnant and had a 'shot gun wedding'. during the same period.
Funny that, the COG girl was shipped out of town, the non church girl married the father of the baby! Both were shamed, but the COG girl longer. (Mostly by good brothers and sisters)
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Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
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http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
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12/29/17 10:22 am
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Cojak |
There are several SINS that seem to be 'worse' sins than others. At times the girl who gets pregnant out of wedlock is treated worse than a murderer in the eyes of Pharisees. Or that is how I see it.
My wife says I can't have sex before my next marriage!
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Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
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Posts: 24277
12/29/17 10:31 am
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| NBF... |
Aaron Scott |
You're not going to help anyone with this defeatist mentality.
Is it defeatist to admit that the church is no better at purity than the world? I would call that telling the truth.
Give them the reason God wants them to be pure - and they will follow.
Really? You think this hasn't been pretty much the standard operating procedure of thousands of churches? The results of these efforts speak for themselves: Church youth just as impure as the world.
Also - teach the parents to keep their kids out of compromising situations - don't let them be alone with a boyfriend or girlfriend.
THIS is the best solution, by far. We are not going to have tremendous success with teaching alone. Yes, that will carry us part of the way, but a rigid insistence that a couple will NOT be left alone together is a good step forward. It's not perfect--i.e., the "purity" that results is not really based on the intentions of the young people, but upon the cold, hard fact that they CANNOT have the privacy needed, etc.--but if it does the job, that's fine with me.
I propose that the Church teach PARENTS to insist on being with their children on dates, etc. No, you don't have to sit at the same table with them in a restaurant, but in eyesight, etc.
I further wish that we adopted a more Eastern take on marriage. In the West, it's all about "I love him!" and "I love her!" Yet we know that that method has led to a significant amount of divorce. I wish that parents got together and helped find suitable marriage candidates for their children. A parent knows what makes a child tick and can perhaps help them find a more suitable mate than the child would by themselves. I am not against arranged marriages that take place in the fear of God.
Further, we used to have district meetings where numerous churches would come together for service and fellowship. Often, our children have only their own church...and whoever they meet OUTSIDE the church...as potential candidates. In my little church, there is really not a single, suitable candidate for my 13-year-old son (not that he's overly interested in that now, anyway). But I imagine that there are likely some very nice girls across the wider district.
Maybe one reason we are losing so many of our young people is that they have been "forced" to find too many friends, relationships, and the such from OUTSIDE of the Church of God (or even the Church in general). So they wind up either outside the Church of God...or perhaps even outside the faith.
I can't tell you how many young friends that were ladies told of being date raped for their first time of intercourse - and then thought - what the heck, I'm no longer a virgin - why wait anymore? It happened OFTEN.
Kids and parents must be taught the reasons for staying sexually pure - and then teach them how to do it.
You will get better results.[/quote] |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6032
12/29/17 12:06 pm
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Cojak |
Quote Aaron:
I can't tell you how many young friends that were ladies told of being date raped for their first time of intercourse - and then thought - what the heck, I'm no longer a virgin - why wait anymore? It happened OFTEN.
Kids and parents must be taught the reasons for staying sexually pure - and then teach them how to do it.
You will get better results.[/quote]
That is so sad. I don't give advice, I have been pretty much of a failure along the lines of raising Godly Children. I have friends who drink most weekends, always have. They never attend church except for a marriage or funeral. The family had two boys like us. They have had perfect kids. The boys raised Godly children both active in the Baptist Church. One is an executive in BMW the other in Duke power.
My boys took the log way home. I have learned that you children are individuals. Some respond to tough love, others do not.
Some will follow your rules no matter how strict and turn out great. Some will leave home ASAP.
Just know your kids, I mean know them.
BUT most of all LOVE then and let them know you are there.
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Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
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12/29/17 8:07 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
| At first glance, I thought the title of this thread said, “Why Evangelical Young People Don’t WANT to Have Sex.†|
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12792
12/30/17 12:26 am
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| Re: Resident and Cojak... |
Link |
| Aaron Scott wrote: |
But to your comment about being "defeatist," I would argue that I am being a "realist." When our youth's sexual statistics are no better than the world's...it's not because the church has failed to say anything. I imagine that most boys and girls understand (even if they don't obey) that sex before marriage is, at the very least, not the best thing. |
I think we should be realistic about the way things are, but not complacent about the way things can and should be.
| Quote: |
No, you won't die from not having sex, but the appetite is just as strong. You spoke of resorting to cannibalism. Consider that some folks have such an unrelenting sex drive that they wind up sleeping with people that utterly appall them in the light of morning. No, you won't die...but the sex drive feels as much a "must" as these other things, I imagine. |
Usually, there is alcohol involved in these stories of waking up next to someone they find appalling in the morning.
But what about our grandparents. Do we have so much stronger sex drives than they do? Do the hormones in our milk drive the children wild? I don't think that's it. I think it's a lower standard and a more corrupt soceity in this area, and the church is to be a peculiar people.
I don't think the average guy may age in my 20's had a higher sex drive. I just didn't seek opportunities to have sex before marriage because it was wrong. I also had knowledge of the word of God on the matter and a desire not to sin in this area.
Young people are bombarded with messages that tell them its okay and expected for them to have sex outside of marriage. I think that has a lot ot do with it. I think a big question is how to combat that. I went through a phase where i stayed away from TV most of the time and from secular music when I went to a church that taught that way when I was in middle school. But I am not that way now. I suppose I could do that with the family. There were Pentecostals who wouldn't go to the picture show to see Roy Rogers and all that.
| Quote: |
Consider that churches would almost have to doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING regarding teenage sex to get the sort of terrible statistics we are hearing about Christian youth. Do you believe that the church is doing absolutely nothing? I don't. I just think that sex is a powerful force that, despite sermons and teaching, leads our youth astray at about the same rate as the world's youth. |
I suspect teaching is lacking. Maybe we need to get the young people thinking more deeply about this and seeing the reasoning behind it.
| Quote: |
Cojak, I was thinking about something you said.... I DO believe that more people made it to marriage as virgins in previous generations. But the problem, I think, is not whether more got to marriage as virgins, but how did the statistics for Christian youth compare with those of non-Christian youth? That is, if approximately the same "no sexual experience" percentage for both groups was the same, then it would seem that it was not so much the church helping the youth, but the sexual zeitgeist of the times. Make sense? |
We are to be a peculiar people. How do we overcome the zeitgeist... or whatever the right word is... so that our young people are stronger at rejecting the world's morality.
It bothers me also to encounter people who go to evangleical churches who spout LGBT propaganda about people being born that way.
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Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11849
12/30/17 2:48 am
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| My heart goes out to Christian singles this morning |
Preacher777 |
My previous post on this subject addresses some drastic adjustments in the salvation and discipleship process concerning Christian singles. I realize my thoughts may seem overboard to some people but feel when losing the battle an all out spiritual warfare drastic measures should be the norm.
I feel bad and will be praying this morning for the many singles who were raised in the church or at some point made a commitment to Christ but are presently deceived by the pervasive sexual immorality among society and the church. My Godly Christian wife and I spent a relaxing quiet evening alone. My heart went out to the singles who want to serve God but are pulled into compromising New Years Eve activities (sexual and other sin). I was fortunate enough to be saved in a Christian scenario where older married Christian men would tell me that if I tried hanging around the New Years Eve scene many church attending singles are part of now that I would definitely lust in my heart and perhaps physically too.
I go back to the salvation experience and discipleship. I am all for cultural adaption. I really pray and discuss with other mature Christians and pastors the fine line between adaptation and compromise. In my opinion we are doing a single man an injustice if he is sexually active (almost every single man) and we do everything possible to convince him to say the sinners prayer or have him accept Christ without dealing with the obvious elephant in the room, the woman sexual situation.
Would the marines go through boot camp and send people out to combat without making them aware of and teaching how to defeat the enemy? I do love to eat but avoiding the best surf and turf dinner was much easier than staying away from the sexiest women. I seldom hear much teaching about the many times Jesus taught and asked for an all or nothing commitment and also stopped people from making quick emotional commitments to follow Him.
I agree with posters who mentiooned that before the sexual revolution of the 60s society was much more like the church in their feelings about sex outside of marriage. However, we are called to be in the world but not of it. Nobody can stand before the judgement seat of Christ and say, "Now remember, Lord, I was an American Christian born in 2017 so please don't judge me according to those Puritan values!"
Therefore, I oppenly share with single men in and out of the church that walking sexually pure before God will be the fight of their lives but well worth the all out necessaary commitment. At the risk of sounding like a street guy I let them know that in my day grandmothers looked like apron wearing ladies in old movies but now many are tanned up, trimmed up, wearing high heels and tight clothes let alone how the mothers look. Therefore, why would I lead t a single guy to the Lord, expect him to walk pure with much more temptation that I ever dreamed about dealing with 20-40 years ago with my Sunday morning message as his spiritual strength. I cannot preach that good and either can you! |
Friendly Face
Posts: 434
1/1/18 10:01 am
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Dave Dorsey |
| John the Apostle wrote: | | Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother. |
If someone has been genuinely born of God, he will not continue to make a practice of sinning, because God's seed abides in him. If someone comes to saving faith, the inward work of the Spirit will enable them to begin to kill sin in their lives. We do have a responsibility to disciple people and to tell them God's word, for sure, but you very likely will not have to tell a young man who comes to Christ that he needs to stop sleeping around. As Romans 2 says, when Gentiles who do not know the law by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts as their conscience bears them witness.
I think the main problem is that we lead people through a sinner's prayer in an emotionally charged environment, and that very few of those people actually come to saving faith in Christ. And subsequently, they are unable to put to death the deeds of the body. And on that note...
| Preacher777 wrote: | | In my opinion we are doing a single man an injustice if he is sexually active (almost every single man) and we do everything possible to convince him to say the sinners prayer or have him accept Christ without dealing with the obvious elephant in the room, the woman sexual situation. |
I think you might have just been a bit loose with your words, so I don't want to make a mountain out of a molehill here, but I do want to point out that it is not possible for someone to deal with that elephant before coming to saving faith in Christ. Someone who does not know Him will continue to sin. It is not possible for that man to stop sinning; the fact that he can't is the entire basis of his need for the gospel.
I think we need to narrow our focus on the proclamation of that gospel, and trust in the power of that gospel to regenerate wicked people and to make them holy. When the music is playing and we are saying things like, "If you died today, do you know where you would go?" we are making false disciples who made a decision in a moment of emotion, rather than true disciples who were called through the gospel and born again to new life.
If we will tell people what Jesus has done for them, and tell them that they can be set free from slavery to sin and can become children of God by grace through faith in Him, some will believe and be saved, and through the power of the Spirit they will begin to mortify their flesh and put to death the deeds of the body. Others won't, and they will perish. But it's no more up to us to sanctify them than it is to save them. We are responsible for making disciples of all people groups by proclaiming His gospel to them. What happens to them after that proclamation is up to Him -- it is too great for us. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
1/1/18 10:13 am
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Resident Skeptic |
| Dave Dorsey wrote: | | John the Apostle wrote: | | Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother. |
If someone has been genuinely born of God, he will not continue to make a practice of sinning, because God's seed abides in him. If someone comes to saving faith, the inward work of the Spirit will enable them to begin to kill sin in their lives. We do have a responsibility to disciple people and to tell them God's word, for sure, but you very likely will not have to tell a young man who comes to Christ that he needs to stop sleeping around. As Romans 2 says, when Gentiles who do not know the law by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts as their conscience bears them witness.
I think the main problem is that we lead people through a sinner's prayer in an emotionally charged environment, and that very few of those people actually come to saving faith in Christ. And subsequently, they are unable to put to death the deeds of the body. And on that note...
| Preacher777 wrote: | | In my opinion we are doing a single man an injustice if he is sexually active (almost every single man) and we do everything possible to convince him to say the sinners prayer or have him accept Christ without dealing with the obvious elephant in the room, the woman sexual situation. |
I think you might have just been a bit loose with your words, so I don't want to make a mountain out of a molehill here, but I do want to point out that it is not possible for someone to deal with that elephant before coming to saving faith in Christ. Someone who does not know Him will continue to sin. It is not possible for that man to stop sinning; the fact that he can't is the entire basis of his need for the gospel.
I think we need to narrow our focus on the proclamation of that gospel, and trust in the power of that gospel to regenerate wicked people and to make them holy. When the music is playing and we are saying things like, "If you died today, do you know where you would go?" we are making false disciples who made a decision in a moment of emotion, rather than true disciples who were called through the gospel and born again to new life.
If we will tell people what Jesus has done for them, and tell them that they can be set free from slavery to sin and can become children of God by grace through faith in Him, some will believe and be saved, and through the power of the Spirit they will begin to mortify their flesh and put to death the deeds of the body. Others won't, and they will perish. But it's no more up to us to sanctify them than it is to save them. We are responsible for making disciples of all people groups by proclaiming His gospel to them. What happens to them after that proclamation is up to Him -- it is too great for us. |
Excellent post.
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
1/1/18 10:41 am
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