Actscelerate.com

Ernie Long

Why ask for prayer here

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1050 **12/29/17 6:39 am**

when it is obvious that there is doubt and unbelief on this board. I came to this conclusion after reading the comments on this thread... http://www.actscelerate.com/viewtopic.php?t=87915

Does this board only believe that God moves in certain situations, under ideal conditions?

I'm sure all have witness the power of God in some shape or form, or at least I hope we have, so why do we put limits on God?

With our "opinions" are we silencing others testimonies that God still heals, delivers, and saves?

Why do we so easily believe God still saves (without proof) and yet we require medical documentation for healing?

Is it up to us or God on what or who He decides to heal or not heal?

Proverbs 27:17 tells us Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend. But after visiting this board, I feel more beat up and weaken in my faith, than encouraged and sharpened.

This isn't pointing out anyone, but it is my feelings toward this board and what it has become.

Dave Dorsey

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 13654 **12/29/17 7:53 am**

What are your answers to the questions you asked?

Also, when someone gets saved, can you not see obvious, outward evidence of the inward transformation and work of the Spirit? If this evidence is absent, do you not rightfully question whether regeneration has occurred?

Cojak

01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24284 **12/29/17 10:48 am**

I actually heard a preacher say from the pulpit in a sermon, "IF WE HAD ONE PERSON IN THIS CHURCH WHO WAS DEDICATED TO GOD, WE WOULD TURN THIS TOWN UP SIDE DOWN FOR GOD!"

My mind asked the logical question, "My brother do you count yourself?"

I have on occasion asked this board for prayer. I have no doubt that you and maybe one other has faith and believe. (sorry for the sound of sarcasm, it is honestly not meant that way).

I try not to fault anyone who does not live or feel exactly as I do, but at times I must ask forgiveness. When I speak of 'so-called' miracles I see it that way. I had an evangelist tell me once after he declared a dying person healed and then the person had the audacity to die anyway, that the dead person had LOST his faith. OUCH!
When an evangelist takes a man's crutches and breaks or bends them and declares him healed, then the next week the man has a new pair of crutches is it doubt that says, 'that was no miracle'.

Don't get me wrong here, there are time was are too skeptical. But in reference to MAT's comment, I hurt when a couple is charged with murder when they pray and truly believe their child is healed, but it dies due to lack of medical help according to doctors. Crying or Very sad

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Dave Dorsey

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 13654 **12/29/17 11:46 am**

I think the answer to the question -- why ask for prayer here -- is that you'll receive it. You'll receive prayer from people who know the world is in the hand of a sovereign God, who don't understand why He moves in some cases and not in others, who don't believe every huckster with a testimony and a self-addressed giving envelope, who test the spirits to see whether they are from God, but who still genuinely and confidently trust that all things work together for good for those who love God, who are called according to His purpose and who are foreknown, predestined, called, justified, and glorified by Him.

You probably won't find a ton of people who will decree and declare empty words over your situation, but I suspect you'll find several who will take your petition with them to the throne of grace, knowing that mercy is found there, and grace to help in time of need.

brotherjames

Hey Ernie

Acts-celerater Posts: 935 **12/29/17 12:15 pm**

here's a little ditty I wrote some time back that answers your question.
There are people of faith on this forum but there are also those who shall remain nameless who are Deep Dark Doubters yet call themselves "Pentecostals". When you ask for prayer here, you will get it but some will ask in faith nothing wavering others will ask with the concluding statement "if it be thy will." Here is their take on the scriptures in a humorous but truth filled script:

The Gospel according to DDD (Deep Dark Doubters). Some of their favorite scriptures explained for those of you have been misunderstanding these and others over the years. Glad I found this, it clears up a lot.

Mat 8:17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, in this era Himself occasionally takes our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses when itï¿½s in His will to do so which is seldom and based on capricious whims.

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, but not to day, nor for ever.

Mat 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Mat 6:10 Thy kingdom come when Jesus returns to this earth. Thy will be done in earth when you can, as it is in heaven just not yet because thatï¿½s impossible.
Mat 6:11 Give us this day our daily bread spiritually because we know you couldnï¿½t really feed us literally today like Jesus did to the 5000. we donï¿½t expect you to take care of our physical needs.

Php 4:13 I can do a few things occasionally through Christ which strengtheneth me but certainly not all the time and I know this is just hyperbole anyway.

Php 4:19 But my God shall supply all your spiritual need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus because we know the idea that you would be Jehovah Jireh to this generation is not realistic and is just another example of hyperbole.

Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be given many chances to change their minds and you probably didnï¿½t really mean this anyway. After all, a kind compassionate God would never condemn anyone to an everlasting hell (which is only a euphemism anyway).
Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues (if they take the time to go to language school somewhere);
Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents (not really); and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them (ifthe antidaote is available of course); they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover (this was all only for the apostles and a lot of what you wrote about what you did and they did is probably more examples of exaggeration and hyperbole) (and remember this wasnï¿½t in the Textus Sextus or some other early manuscripts anyway so none of this is for us today).

Luk 1:37 For with God nothing shall be possible except for what your own abilities and God?-given giftings can do.

Joh 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do (total lies and hperbole meant to confuse the rubes wink, wink; because I go unto my Father.
Joh 14:13 And whatsoever (in the Greek whatsoever means no thing there is a misunderstanding here) ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
Joh 14:14 If ye shall ask any (any in the Greek means some and it is dependent upon Godï¿½s will at that moment) thing in my name, I will do it.

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped (as in I hope for a new pony but I donï¿½t really expect one to show up) for, the evidence (in the Greek evidence literally means hoped for ï¿½ see previous def. of Hoped) of things not seen

Heb 11:6 But without faith ( as in I hope for a pony ï¿½.) it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them (to reward means when you get to heaven ï¿½ future tense of course) that diligently seek him.

Jas 5:13 Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms.
Jas 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
Jas 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, (when he gets to heaven that is) and the Lord shall raise him up (in the last day at the resurrection); and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him (ditto).
Jas 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed (spiritually of course). The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much (well another example of hyperbole ï¿½ the Bible is just filled with it isnï¿½t it).

Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus (you understand this is an allegory because you canï¿½t be in two places at the same time):
Eph 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
Eph 2:8 For by grace (means whatever you think it does) are ye saved through faith (I hope for a pony but donï¿½t expect it kind of faith); and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works (well you should DO something), lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Eph 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might (power here means your own because otherwise it would mean supernatural dunamis and that is hyperbole or just a lie).
Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil (good luck but not really cause there isnï¿½t really a devil with power because then that would mean there would have to be a God with greater power and we havenï¿½t seen any evidence of that recently anyway).
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places (allegorical).

Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word (in the greek this is the Rhema Word but it is the same as the written word and you donï¿½t have to really say it or use it just think about it sometimes) of God:
Eph 6:18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit (Paul doesnï¿½t mean in tongues and if he did it was only for the early church that stuff is passe today and never had any power in the first place), and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

Rom 4:16 Therefore it is of faith (I am hoping for a pony), that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all (Israel that is),
Rom 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,)(Israelï¿½s 12 tribes) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were (this only applied to Abraham and has absolutely nothing to do with the church today).
Rom 4:18 Who against hope believed in hope (for that pony I guess but he got it ï¿½ lucky duck), that he might become the father of many nations (Israel), according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.

Act 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
Act 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
Act 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied ( doesnï¿½t mean anything for the church today- this was just the church at Ephesus and these 12 believers ï¿½ speaking in tongues is not the initial physical evidence youï¿½ve been baptized in the Holy Spirit ï¿½ love is or warm fuzzy feelings).

1Co 14:1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy (prophesy means to preach from your inherent gifting ï¿½ God no longer speaks to us personally or corporately except thru the canon of scripture you know).
1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries (why bother).
1Co 14:3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort (good preaching will encourage and exhort and build up people, especially a good illustrated sermon).

1Jn 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world (your mind is a great gift, donï¿½t waste it on trying to understand the power of God, the Holy Spirit, Revelation from God, Faith that could move mountains because that stuff will make your crazy and you might become one of those ï¿½Faith, signs and wonders peopleï¿½ aka Word of Faith. Stick with what you can easily grasp and just suffer here in your pain and sickness because one day heaven will be worth it ï¿½ we hope (for a pony).)

HEE HEE Happy New Year! I love all of you , even the doubters.

Nature Boy Florida

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16641 **12/29/17 1:07 pm**

The good news is you get all kinds here to pray for you.

Those that tell God what He is going to do - and don't doubt He will do it.
And those that pray for you that God's will be done.

One of them will work - won't it?
_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today!

Dave Dorsey

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 13654 **12/29/17 1:49 pm**

"In the name of Jesus, I say to you, arise."

Those were the words I had seen myself speaking in my dream.

It was a calm afternoon in March. I was looking at sonogram images of my fourth child. A week earlier, we had received word that the baby no longer had a heartbeat. It would have been the third straight baby we had lost. I'm not sure how to explain the certainty I felt that God was going to intervene. I had, by this point in my life, listened to thousands of hours of Word of Faith preaching. I had taught it to many others and my wife and I had lived it for several years, convinced that we were doing so successfully. We had experienced miracles of financial provision and gracious healings. I was convinced it was because of my words and my right confession.

"In the name of Jesus, I say to you, arise."

Though I had lived as a person of faith for nearly a decade at that point, I had never experienced faith like this. I had never been more certain, more convinced, more fully persuaded. You could have written a textbook based on the faith (so-called) that I was walking in at the time.

There was a dead baby in my wife's belly, but I knew it had to come back to live. That situation had to change at my word -- when my word was aligned with His word. That Sunday in church, we had an altar time. I eagerly prayed for several people, encouraging them and speaking words of faith into their situations. I was so full of faith that it was overflowing into others. After the service, my pastor at the time, who knew about our situation, looked in my eyes and said, "Dave, I have never seen anyone with as much faith as you."

"In the name of Jesus, I say to you, arise."

The nights were long and my sleep was often interrupted. I would wake up declaring the word, praising God, and confessing His promises. I knew what it was like to doubt -- what it was like to not believe -- and that was the furthest thing from me. No unbelief caused me to waver concerning my belief that God was going to move, neither did the deadness of the baby inside my wife's womb.

A couple of days after, we returned to the OB for another appointment. The baby had not yet been expelled, so a miracle was still possible. So far as my wife and I were concerned, it was a done deed. The doctor counseled us about what might happen next. But, I had seen this moment in a dream. I asked him if he would be so kind as to perform one more sonogram, so I could see the baby, and I could speak the words from the dream. He was reluctant, but graciously agreed. When we saw the baby on the screen, my heart leapt inside of me. This was the moment. This was what I had seen in the dream. This was what God had ordained. I opened my mouth, and spoke:

"In the name of Jesus, I say to you, arise."

That was the day I began to learn that a promise made to Jairus is not the same thing as a promise made to me. The Bible is full of wonderful promises that God has made to me, and I confidently believe and stand on each of them. But promises made to Jairus, or promises made to Abahram, or promises made to Syrian widows, are not among those promises.

God did not fail me, but He did love me, and that was the day He began to graciously bring me out from believing Word of Faith error.

Old Time Country Preacher

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 15570 **12/29/17 2:17 pm**

What has been provided by the woffie leaning segment in this thread is a mere compilation of biblical verses, extracted from context, sitting alone on a mountain of hermeneutical mayhem. This is the seedy world of the proof-texter. No exegesis! No context! Yep, I agree that em verses is in the good Book. But so is "Judas went out and hanged himself" an in another place it says "go and do likewise." Is it ok to just string em words together, without context, without proper hermeneutical assessment, an build a doctrine on it? Well, if it is, error won't last long, cause all the error promoters will be goin out an hangin their selves like Judas.

Dave Dorsey

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 13654 **12/29/17 7:26 pm**

I'll say this also: I have been memorizing Romans with one of my pastors over the last few months. We're up to 9:18. The context in chapter 4 is pretty clear as it is, but if you really want it to click, start at 1:1 and recite the first four chapters from memory.

If you think Romans 4:16-18 is about Christians getting material things from God through some utilization of faith, you might as well be on the top of a mountain shouting, "I am unskilled in the word of righteousness."

Old Time Country Preacher

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 15570 **12/29/17 7:34 pm**

Cojak

01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24284 **12/29/17 7:50 pm**

Ernie Long

I am sorry for this thread

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1050 **12/29/17 9:46 pm**

If I have offended you, please forgive me.

Old Time Country Preacher

Re: I am sorry for this thread

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 15570 **12/29/17 9:58 pm**

Carolyn Smith

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 5922 **12/29/17 10:35 pm**

It seems to me that people are so afraid they might stray over into WOF teaching, they have laid down their faith completely.

The main problem with WOF teaching, IMHO, is that people put their faith in faith, not in God. The focus of our faith must be in the power name of Jesus and the blood of Jesus. I believe in speaking positively and in declaring the truth of God's Word, but no matter how many times I say those things, my faith must be in God, not in how much I do or say a certain thing.

I exercise my faith in God and leave the outcome to Him. He knows what is best for me and for those I am praying for. Sometimes we see the situation change and people touched by the power of God. Sometimes we do not. Our faith in Him must be strong enough to realize He doesn't always say, "Yes."

I believe in miracles. I have seen them in my life and in others. And I like to encourage others who need prayer by saying, as the three Hebrew boys did, "God is able."

17 If we are thrown into the blazing furnace, the God we serve is able to deliver us from it, and he will deliver us from Your Majestyâ€™s hand.
18 But even if he does not, we want you to know, Your Majesty, that we will not serve your gods or worship the image of gold you have set up.â€
(Daniel 3:17-18)

In other words, whether or not God chooses to deliver us is up to Him. We know He is able, and whatever He decides, I will continue to serve Him.
_________________
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Dave Dorsey

Re: I am sorry for this thread

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 13654 **12/29/17 10:36 pm**

Quiet Wyatt

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12813 **12/30/17 12:30 am**

It is always curious to me how the assumption seems to be that, if you just have absolute certainty in your faith every time, you will, without fail, always receive the answer in precisely the way you asked. Even more curious is when someone assumes that only asking WoF-type believers is effectual, and that it is a sheer waste of time to ask for prayer from someone who doesnâ€™t believe the WoF doctrines. I honestly donâ€™t get it.

brotherjames

Ernie, don't be sorry for the thread

Acts-celerater Posts: 935 **12/30/17 4:38 pm**

it's just that this discussion has been going on for awhile here. I want to repeat to all that while I believe in and practice "divine healing" I am NO Woffie. I am purely Pentecostal (ask the people of Azusa Street what they believed about healing being God's will - and I know they missed it in some areas but this teaching has been around since the first century church). Ask Peter what he meant when he said in Acts 9:33-34 KJV And there he found a certain man named Aeneas, which had kept his bed eight years, and was sick of the palsy. (34) And Peter said unto him, "Aeneas, Jesus Christ maketh thee whole: arise, and make thy bed. And he arose immediately."

I respect the Ole Timer exegesis but I take nothing out of context. Matt. 8:17 is pretty clear to me as to what Jesus did at the cross. I have witnessed it beyond words to express.

TO Dave Dorsey, I say I feel your pain over your loss. One of my grandchildren died in the womb at 7 months after much prayer and supplication. We felt the same loss and pain. Why? Why does God heal some and not all? I will not blame God nor call Him capricious. All I know is all that came to Jesus were healed. There is no account in the New Testament save 1 where someone was not healed. Paul did say he left Trophimus at Miletum sick. That said, the fault must lie with me. Many I have prayed for have been miraculously healed, many have not. Some have died. All I know is my relationship with God is surely not what Jesus had nor even the Apostles. I pray it will be. Until then, I pray and I believe and the rest is up to God. It does not change my understanding of God's Word or will. If Jesus paid the full price for my salvation and for my healing at the cross I am only required to believe it not understand it all.

Is medicine of God? Absolutely. I believe all wisdom is God's wisdom. You surely don't think the devil felt sorry for mankind suffering with polio so he gave Jonas Salk the cure do you? No, God did. So I have no problem using medicine and doctors knowledge but they are not my source, Jesus is. Nor are they my first line of thought. When I ruptured my achilles tendon, I walked on it for a month believing for healing. It didn't come and I had to have surgery. Should I have gone earlier to the dr? Perhaps, but the dr isn't my source. Why wasn't i healed? No Idea. Is God a liar? Nope.

And one final thought, OTCP - I am not around enough WOF people to know for sure but I have never heard any of the ones I know dare to claim Rom 4:17 as a promise for anything. Abraham had a Word from God. GOd called him the father of many nations - those things that weren't as though they were. If there is a Word from God to me then I will most confidently confess that Word as so whether I see it or not. The old claims of blab it and grab it or name it and claim it were repudiated by Hagin, et al. as heresy. But if God has promised healing for example as a revelation of His will, I will claim that.

Jesus told us to pray to the Father that His Will would be done on earth as it is in Heaven. I take from that God wants earth to look like heaven. What Adam experienced in the Garden was the will of God for earth. I don't remember any sickness in the Garden. Jesus said to His disciples (and as far as I can tell that means me too) Go, Heal the sick. Preach the Gospel. And these signs shall follow those who BELIEVE. That's my mandate. To make earth as much like Heaven as I can. Satan is still the god (little g) of this world but I represent another Kingdom, one that is Greater than his. For this purpose was the Son of God manifest, to destroy the works of the evil one. In this Kingdom, ALL things are possible. In this Kingdom, disciples can do GREATER WORKS than Jesus. As a Pentecostal, I believe that. How about you?

Happy New Year!!

THE LOVE OF GOD

Friendly Face Posts: 387 **12/31/17 6:12 pm**

Revival Revival !!!

Old Time Country Preacher

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 15570 **12/31/17 6:39 pm**

brotherjames

Revival, revival

Acts-celerater Posts: 935 **12/31/17 7:33 pm**

No it won't change it, revival will validate it. Doubt at your own peril.