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 The Church’s Fate Is Not Electoral: Our Roy Moore Moment (L) |
Dave Dorsey |
| Quote: | The basic argument of Moore’s supporters is that the stakes in U.S. elections are so high that we have to disregard what might otherwise be valid moral objections to voting for him. Defeating the church’s political enemies is so important at this critical moment in our history that even voting for a monster is justified. One prominent evangelical leader has said that God gave America a “second chance†for survival with Donald Trump’s election, and that second chance will be hindered if pro-life Republicans lose ground in Congress.
I’d be the last to deny that the church has political enemies, although I’d point out that some of them call themselves Christians and run for office as pro-life Republicans. The more important point, however, is that neither the fate of the church nor the fate of the country is going to be determined by this election. Or at least not in the way some Moore supporters are thinking.
The church always has political enemies. If that alone is sufficient to justify a vote for a monster, it’s justified any time. But that’s not the argument we’re hearing. We’re hearing that this moment is unique. We face a once-in-a-lifetime existential threat—a “Flight 93†moment in which our national plane is about to crash.
This brings us to the real heart of the issue. Is this actually a critical moment in our history? Believe it or not, that depends on our answer to a deceptively simple question: What is history? |
Read the whole thing: https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/roy-moore-eschatological-politics/ |
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Posts: 13654
12/5/17 11:39 am
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UncleJD |
| I agree that our eternal fate has nothing to do with this election. But I would counter that the United States of America has been blessed by God, but not established by God, and since it was not established by God, then it may well be that God will not prevent its destruction from within. As long as we have the choice between the lesser of two evils, why not go ahead and vote and hope that the man will hold true to his platform when deciding issues that will influence whether this country stands or falls? |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3138
12/5/17 12:04 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
| Moore will win for the exact same reasons the Lecher-in-Chief won last year. |
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Posts: 12792
12/5/17 12:23 pm
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UncleJD |
| Quiet Wyatt wrote: | | Moore will win for the exact same reasons the Lecher-in-Chief won last year. |
Because his opponent is a member of the sex-abuse-in-chief, abortion-in-chief, God-out-of-our-platform-in-chief, gay-marriage-and-immorality-in-chief, party? |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3138
12/5/17 12:35 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
Because conservative Christians in America have, by and large, bought into consequentialism, and no longer believe personal moral character of a candidate ultimately matters. So long as the guy’s on our team politically, the fact that he’s a total reprobate doesn’t really matter. All that matters is that we ‘beat’ those evil Democrats in the election. A political win, no matter how immoral our candidate may be, is where ultimate value lies.
https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/nonpartisan-solution-roy-moore-problem/ |
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Posts: 12792
12/5/17 12:50 pm
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UncleJD |
| I'm not sure Christians "don't believe it ultimately matters". I certainly don't believe that. But when it comes to living in Rome, where the majority is Roman, then all the Christians can do is hope for some Romans who don't want to persecute the church. If they get a chance to choose between Romans who hate Christians, or Romans who don't mind them or even use them politically, doesn't wisdom say to choose the later? For the record, I don't like Roy Moore, I don't think many people could after all this. But again, we are in a post-Christian America (or rapidly approaching it) where there are going to be fewer and fewer candidates that would qualify simultaneously for pastor or president. |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3138
12/5/17 12:56 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
| Quote: | What Borland is really advocating is consequentialism, the view that whether an act is morally right depends only on the consequences of that act or of something related to that act. Borland makes this clear when he says that critics of Moore (and Trump)
fall prey to what philosophers call a reductio ad absurdum, an argument that reduces itself to absurdity. If one can’t vote for someone who is better (that is, less bad or less evil) or who is equally bad but has better policies, then one should opt out of politics and the voting process altogether! But since that’s not the case, the #Never_____ position fails. It’s that simple.
Note that Borland considers the idea of not voting to be an absurdity. Even faced with two immoral candidates, he believes we must choose one over the other. Why? Because of the bad consequences that might come about if we don’t vote for the candidate who supports our preferred policies.
If this sounds like a familiar argument, it’s because Christians have used it for decades to vote for pro-abortion candidates. They claim it’s better to choose candidates who support one’s views on a number of pertinent issues even if they support a grave evil (i.e., abortion) over which they have almost no direct influence (because no single politician can overturn Roe v. Wade).
Now, the same reasoning is being used by Christians to justify voting for sexually predatory Republicans. I don’t think it’s an exaggeration to say that, for many Christians, consequentialism has replaced biblical ethics as the standard for our political theology.†|
https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/nonpartisan-solution-roy-moore-problem/ |
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Posts: 12792
12/5/17 1:02 pm
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Cojak |
I do not buy the idea that folks in Alabama will vote for Moore because they are 'concerned' about his opponent.
There had been no charges against the man in court. We are a country of laws not accusations. I have talked to two certified voters from Alabama, retired school teachers and members of the Methodist church. They accepted the Lord as their savior AFTER retirement. I have talked to three other voters from Alabama who will vote for Moore, on the internet. They all say about the same. I would hate for someone to hold something against me that I did 40 years ago.
One said, " the man has been married over 30 years to the same woman who stands behind him. saying he has been a good husband." I will vote for him. Let us in Alabama decide who we want to represent us. 
I sorta agree with that. Since I know men who have been accused of things that the accusers later recanted, but the man's life was ruined.
I hate to think that the media can decide a law maker's fate.
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jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
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Posts: 24275
12/6/17 12:31 am
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Nature Boy Florida |
Moore is not black - he will win.
Only blacks pay the price in government.
Slick Willie, Franken, Trump, etc... all keep their jobs.
Conyers is out.
Not sure how that is possible.
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Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16619
12/6/17 8:07 am
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Resident Skeptic |
| Nature Boy Florida wrote: | Moore is not black - he will win.
Only blacks pay the price in government.
Slick Willie, Franken, Trump, etc... all keep their jobs.
Conyers is out.
Not sure how that is possible. |
Simply not true. Al Greene is still in there. The dumb things that black politicians say is really what ought to get them fired, but their constituents do not seem to have the intelligence needed to understand this. So they keep getting voted in.
BTW, Conyers will finish out his term. He is old. If he had been younger, he'd be sticking around.
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Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
12/6/17 12:58 pm
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diakoneo |
There's been a lot of outside influence in this election. It started with Mitch McConnell and now the Roy Moore thing! I guess folks think we're pretty stupid here in Alabama. If we vote for Moore we are stupid Hicks. If we vote for Jones we can be strong-armed. so which is worse?
If you have followed Alabama politics as a citizen, you know Moore's history. He is controversial. Always has been. He is very conservative too. Lots of Republicans don't like controversial conservatives. They want a peaceful conservative I suppose. That is why some will stay at home on election day. I will vote for Moore. I am not crazy about a lot he does, but I do know where he stands and I know he won't crawfish.  |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3382
12/6/17 5:43 pm
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Cojak |
| diakoneo wrote: | | ... I am not crazy about a lot he does, but I do know where he stands and I know he won't crawfish. |
Heard that term all my life, I like it. 
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
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Posts: 24275
12/6/17 8:24 pm
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