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Is glossalia disappearing from the COG?
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Post Is glossalia disappearing from the COG? roughridercog
After reading the posts on another thread, I decided this would make for interesting discussion.

What percentage of our membership believe in and actually speak in other tongues?

How soon until we are no longer a Pentecostal denomination?
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Last edited by roughridercog on 11/16/17 3:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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9/29/17 8:07 pm


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How about xenoglossia?

Doesn't glossalalia mean something different from the component parts? Doesn't it mean free-vocalization gibberish in the field of Linguistics?
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9/30/17 1:47 am


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Post Re: Is glossalia disappearing from the COG? Resident Skeptic
roughridercog wrote:
After reading the posts on another thread, I decided this would make for interesting discussion.

What percentage of our membership believe in and actually speak in other tongues?

How soon until we are no longer a Pentecostal denomination?


Please create a link to the other thread. Thanks!
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9/30/17 6:48 am


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Post Re: Is glossalia disappearing from the COG? Cojak
roughridercog wrote:
After reading the posts on another thread, I decided this would make for interesting discussion.

What percentage of our membership believe in and actually speak in other tongues?

How soon until we are no longer a Pentecostal denomination?


Roughly 20 years. Our present church approx 3%, most still believe in speaking in tongues. Actually I seldom am urged by the Holy Spirit to speak in tongues other than in private. Embarassed Embarassed So I could be very wrong.
I am referring the 3% as public display.... Cool
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9/30/17 8:50 pm


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Post Cojak
So many times over the years I have heard the same person speak in tongues and give the same message,over and over.

Once there was a message given using a man's name, saying the Holy Ghost was asking him to go to the alter. The named man had left the service a good while before the message was given.

I question myself and pray sincerely when a message is given out and my spirit questions the message. In those cases the message is usually generic and the interpretation is given by the speaker.

I was a member of the 4Square for two years influenced by a wonderful man of God Brother Aldridge and also because I could at the time understand him when he preached. He had a problem that was tough to handle with a brother and sister in the church who about once a month would take over a service with message after message . One interpreting the others messages. My soul cringed in these episodes. I knew the man very well and he was very sincere My impression was he wanted to be a preacher and used that venue to get his message out. But it left me cold.

I have felt that way in many services over the years. I personally do not prefer wild fire over no fire. I do not think it boils down to one or the other. Shocked
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9/30/17 9:04 pm


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Post Quiet Wyatt
I don't have statistics in front of me, but my personal observation, after being very active in AG and CG churches in several areas of the USA for nearly 50 years, is that both messages in tongues during worship services, as well as people receiving the baptism in the Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues, have significantly declined in frequency during my lifetime. When I was a PK growing up in the 70s and 80s, messages in tongues with interpretation happened in most services I attended, and people were regularly exhorted to pray through to the baptism, with seekers often receiving in fervent altar services. Unfortunately, in my view, such occurrences are generally rare today. I would imagine that AG and CG folks praying in tongues privately has likewise diminished in frequency. [Insert Acts Pun Here]
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10/1/17 10:00 am


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Post Resident Skeptic
Quiet Wyatt wrote:
I don't have statistics in front of me, but my personal observation, after being very active in AG and CG churches in several areas of the USA for nearly 50 years, is that both messages in tongues during worship services, as well as people receiving the baptism in the Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues, have significantly declined in frequency during my lifetime. When I was a PK growing up in the 70s and 80s, messages in tongues with interpretation happened in most services I attended, and people were regularly exhorted to pray through to the baptism, with seekers often receiving in fervent altar services. Unfortunately, in my view, such occurrences are generally rare today. I would imagine that AG and CG folks praying in tongues privately has likewise diminished in frequency.


Where might we find such stats?
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10/1/17 5:19 pm


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Post Carolyn Smith
I think it depends on the church and the pastor as to whether or not these kinds of manifestations of the Spirit are welcome. And in some places, they are not. The church I attend honors and welcomes the Holy Spirit...He comes where He is welcome.

A coworker attended a COG that I attended for several years and insisted they did not believe in speaking in tongues. Blew my mind, as I knew the (same) pastor did believe in it and practiced it.

The times...they are a-changing!
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10/1/17 8:27 pm


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Post Old Time Country Preacher
Carolyn Smith wrote:
I think it depends on the church and the pastor as to whether or not these kinds of manifestations of the Spirit are welcome!


Where do you an John attend church, Carolyn?
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10/1/17 11:38 pm


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Post Carolyn Smith
Old Time Country Preacher wrote:
Carolyn Smith wrote:
I think it depends on the church and the pastor as to whether or not these kinds of manifestations of the Spirit are welcome!


Where do you an John attend church, Carolyn?


PM, OTCP.
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10/2/17 5:53 am


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Post sheepdogandy
Speaking in Tongues is alive and well at SPWC.

We just concluded our annual Youth Conference, outstanding ministry of the Word followed by powerful altar services.

Pentecost is not going away, maybe in the denominations, but not here.

In our neck of the woods fellowship between C/G, A/G, C/H, UCH, WPC, and Independent Congregations is a growing concern.

I am convinced the Lord is pleased, He is blessing abundantly. Very Happy
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10/2/17 10:15 am


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Post Maybe the experience is becoming more personal and private. sonofasoldier
It may be that there are just as many in-fillings as ever and maybe even more but less pseudo-fillings. I’m sure most everyone who has been around Pentecost very long has seen and heard learned behavior that simulates a genuine outpouring and infilling of the Spirit of God. I have been concerned and even upset with folks who quickly validate what may appear to be a pseudo-Pentecostal experience. After the tongues are gone what does the life look like? Does the fruit of the Spirit begin to manifest or is there any real change at all? Is the Pentecostal experience only manifested at church or is it manifested at home, work and the community (not the tongues but the fruit)?
It saddens me that a person may be fooled by others or worse yet, be fooling themselves. I am for less pseudo-Pentecost and more genuine Pentecost. It grieves to see and hear folks who obviously do not have a genuine salvation experience much less a Pentecostal experience put on a false spiritual display in religious gatherings. So, I hope there is less pseudo baptisms in the Spirit and more real experiences—experiences that need no public demonstrative affirmation but is evidenced by the bearing of the fruit of the Spirit after the initial experience. Besides, who is the initial evidence for, the individual receiving the Spirit or someone else? I think a true born-again experience is evidenced by love one-for-another and a true baptism in the Spirit evidenced by the fruit one bears. I know the older I get the less I care about a public demonstration and that may be true of following generations (I like the privacy of my prayer closet where I feel safe to tell God everything and am able to hear Him when He talks with me). I do enjoy a powerful move of God’s Spirit but I am not a motivated to run and jump like when I was younger. I hope there is (I believe there is) just as much genuine baptisms in the Spirit today as ever before just with less jumping and screaming.
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10/2/17 2:52 pm


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Post Cojak
In ref to S of S above, for many years and still today 'tongues' are the most easily counterfeited. I also agree with his contention of the prayer closet.

I have wondered all my life of the very little appearance of the actual speaking in a foreign tongue and interpreted by someone who does not speak that language. I have heard of a happening, but I have never seen that myself in this country or any country I have visited.

I guess what I have witnessed has always been 'the unknown tongue' rather that a foreign language as on the day of Pentecost. Embarassed
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10/3/17 10:10 am


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Post JLarry
I speak in tongues on a regular basis.
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Post Cojak
I am sure I come across as negative. BUT growing up, in every church dad pastored, there were always two or three people who gave a message in tongues (Sis. Sasser, Bro Brittian, Garland Page, Claude Setzer, Bro Turner many more) The church became calm, quiet and anticipatory. There was no question to me as a kid, this was different, THIS WAS REAL. Even I wanted to know the interpretation.

The COG was considered a cult most of my young life. I meet people today who say you COG people scared me to death when I was a kid. You may never have seen bench walkers. But we had men who would walk the back of pews speaking in tongues. As a matter of fact I used to go out to the church and practice walking the pews just in case God told me to do it. He never did, but I was prepared.

Embarassed

We are part of the main stream now, good, bad or indifferent. Our pastors even switch pulpits on special days with Baptist, Methodist and Presbyterian. I don't think that happened in the 1950s.

I think the REAL STUFF, is still available in every church. I think every church I attend in the COG has several saints in tune with GOD. They are willing to Speak in tongues if ordered or directed by the Holy Spirit.

(Using the term Holy Spirit reminds me of that early day, if the term Holy Spirit was used by a preacher he would be censored for being 'nominal'.) The correct terminology was/is HOLY GHOST! Shocked
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10/3/17 9:29 pm


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Post Not in our region.... spartanfan
in our church we have tongues and interpretation more services than not. We also have other gifts at times so the answer as far as I can see is "no". Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
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10/3/17 10:15 pm


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Is it better for someone not to speak in tongues, or speak in some pseudo tongues, tell himself he's filled, and tick the box?

I was in a church conference in Indonesia about 19 or 20 years ago, sponsored by a COG (GBI) at the time, called itself by 'Karismatik'. Roberts Liardon was the guest before his scandal. The worship leader told everyone to speak in tongues. I refrained on Biblical grounds, so I got a chance to hear. It sounded like everyone in that room either said

'ba ba ba ba'

or
'bada bada bada bada'

Liardon, in his sermon, told them they were speaking in 'baby tongues.' He then demonstrated his 'warring tongues' and they clapped. At the end, he had everyone who wanted to be baptized with the Holy Spirit not think of anything and say whatever 'bubbled up out of your spirit.' I think he'd used a living waters verse for that. He had other people gather around them and told them to speak in tongues.

If you blank your mind, surround yourself with people who say 'bababa' or 'bada bada bada', and say whatever comes to you, couldn't you say 'bababa' or 'bada bada bada' without getting filled with the Holy Ghost? But you join the club.

I'm not saying the Lord can't or won't respond to someone's faith, but I've seen a lot of methods to try to pull some kind of utterance out of someone's mouth. I don't think the way tongues as initial evidence as presented by Classical Pentecostalism as justified by scripture. It sure can create some social pressure.

I believe we should relax a bit and trust God to gift people if He wants to. Teach people to believe. I've seen tactics to try to push people to prophesy, and that can be very dangerous, IMO.

I was at a healing meeting where they instructed people to declare that they were healed. At the end, they asked people to raise their hands if they were healed. That looks great-- dozens of people who say they were healed you can report at some other meeting. When you do that, you get people still in wheelchairs raising their hand.
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Post Carolyn Smith
My son was told twice (two different occasions) by COG preachers that he had been filled with the Holy Ghost when he had not spoken in tongues. He tarried long in the altar both times but did not speak in tongues. Once was at youth camp and once at church. I told him later that he had received the promise of the Holy Ghost. When he did receive the baptism at a Benny Hinn meeting (where no one laid hands on him), there was no doubt he had received. No one had to tell him. But those instances disturbed me greatly. I don't know about the youth camp one, but the minister at church was someone I knew well and who had been a COG minister for many years. I never asked him why he told him that, and I have no idea why he did it.

My mother received the baptism in the 50s, before they became associated with the COG. She & my dad attended several large meetings with ministers like Thea Jones, as well as smaller services and cottage prayer meetings. At one of the smaller ones, the minister (not COG) told everyone who wanted to receive the baptism to come forward for prayer. He would lay hands on folks and they would speak in tongues. He would remove his hands and they would stop. Mama thought she received that night, but when she told my grandmother (a seasoned saint, a "shouting Methodist") about it, she told her no, that wasn't the way the Spirit worked.
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Post It is embarrassingly crazy philunderwood
So, I heard five or six years ago that the percentage of CofG members professing to receiving the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, according to CofG doctine was 28% but I cannot verify or give credibility to that number...

BUT, if you take one of our STRONGEST states, and see a sampling of their ministerial report statistics here is what you get... YOU GET SAD!

Converted: 1,345
Restorations: 728
Sanctified: 523
Baptized With Holy Ghost: 215
Baptized in Water: 131

These numbers are for one month, but if you look at month after month the percentages stay relatively the same. This would bear out that, over time, IF things stay the same, our fully developed members (in our doctrinal expectation and teaching) will settle at about 16%. That is IF we do not continue our downward trend. And this downward movement is MONUMENTAL, not just a shaving off of a few points.

Oh, and that is NOT counting "restorations" of which might we assume less than 50% of those are baptized in the Holy Spirit already? (50% would be a HUGE stretch to even consider true, but lets do so anyway. That would bring it WAY LOWER.)

What may be WORSE is that we are seeing LESS THAN 10% baptized in water.

Any way you cut this it is atrocious, appalling and says we are not teaching, developing, discipling or giving opportunity.

How they come up with that Sanctified stat is the kicker!!
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Post Dave Dorsey
Are there spikes in the water baptism numbers? It's not unreasonable that they would be low for a single month, since a lot of churches baptize quarterly (or even less often Embarassed ). However, if that one month is representative, it doesn't even make sense to have a conversation about the gifts of the Spirit when a commanded sacrament is being so profoundly ignored. [Insert Acts Pun Here]
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