 |
Actscelerate.com
Open Any Time -- Day or Night
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Message |
Author |
 Why does Gloria Copeland wear eyeglasses to read the Bible while sayin resist physical symptoms? |
Old Time Country Preacher |
Why do WOF Luminaries Get Sick, or Seek Medical Treatment, or eventually Die?
WOF dogma clearly teaches that healing is the right of the believer 100% of the time. If this is true why...............
Buddy Harrison (Kenneth E. Hagin�s son-in-law) died of cancer. Buddy taught and practiced for over twenty years the WOF dogma regarding faith. Why?
Mack Timberlake, WOF televangelist got cancer and died. Why?
Peggy Capps, Charles Capps wife got cancer and survived due to medical treatment. Why?
Betty Price, Fred Prices wife, got cancer, was medically treated and survived. Why?
Joyce Meyer revealed on a televised broadcast that she had breast cancer and was going to believe God for her healing but her family urged her to obtain medical help and she did. Why?
Jan Crouch had bouts with cancer (and medical treatment). Yet close friends Oral Roberts or Benny Hinn couldn�t heal or help Jan. Why?
Tammy-Faye Bakker Messner died with cancer. Why?
T.L. Osborn�s wife Daisy died from cancer. Why?
Both Oral Roberts and Marilyn Hickey were admitted to the same hospital and were in different rooms on the same floor. Why couldn�t they heal each other?
Kenneth Hagin used to tell a story how EW Kenyon ate lunch, went into his living room, sat in his rocking chair, his daughter walked in and Kenyon exclaimed �there�s Jesus, good-bye� and entered into heaven. However, none of the WOF leaders acknowledge that Kenyon died of a cancerous tumor. Why?
Last edited by Old Time Country Preacher on 10/5/17 4:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15564
9/23/17 5:48 pm
|
|
|
|  |
 |
|
|
| |
Dave Dorsey |
| Because they hold to an over-realized eschatology. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
9/23/17 5:49 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
UncleJD |
| Because they don't have a proper understanding of The Cross? |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3138
9/23/17 6:19 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| Because they walk by faith And not by sight |
brotherjames |
2 cor 4:13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak
They believe that it is always God's will to heal even if they personally don't always see it. Some, not all, will go to a Dr and take medicine with tbe understanding that all wisdom is God's wisdom. It certainly wasn't the devil who gave mankind a cure for polio out of compassion was it? So, they take medicine And stand on the promises of God who does not lie, for their healing. No hypocrisy there. Most hypocrisy is found only in their "christian" critics usually. |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 935
9/23/17 7:23 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| Re: Because they walk by faith And not by sight |
Dave Dorsey |
| brotherjames wrote: | | 2 cor 4:13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak |
What do we speak? I know this is a complete verse, but it's not a complete sentence. It has a semi-colon after the end of it. What do we speak -- and what is the result of that speech in the rest of the sentence?
What is the ministry given in 4:1? 4:1 continues the thought from chapter 3. It's talking about speaking something specific. Of what do we speak plainly in 3:12?
What are the unseen things that we look at in 4:18? The eternal things? The exceeding and eternal weight of glory that makes the afflictions of this world seem light in comparison? It's something specific! |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
9/23/17 7:35 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Carolyn Smith |
|
|
| |
|
| Try this from Clark's commentary |
brotherjames |
We having the same spirit of faith] As David had when he wrote Ps 116:10: I believed, therefore have I spoken: we also believe that we shall receive the fulfilment of all God's promises; and being fully convinced of the truth of the Christian religion, we speak and testify that our deliverance is from God; and that he does not fail those who trust in him, and that he saves to the uttermost them who come unto him through Christ Jesus
Those who believe that thosr promises include healing, etc are fully convinced And preach the full Gospel as true not depending on necessarily receiving the manifestation themselves. But they are fully persuaded Gods promises are true. This is that ministry, to preach, teach And model Gods Word as true. Even in sickness. |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 935
9/23/17 7:52 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| Btw, I don't agree with all those |
brotherjames |
| But I respect them as brothers And sisters in Christ. I Have matured enough to agree to disagree when necessary without calling them heretics nor spending my life as a heretic hunter. Who knows, maybe they're right And we are wrong. And don't say your experiences make them wrong, in their opinion your experience contradicts Gods Word, Then What? |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 935
9/23/17 7:59 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Cojak |
Trials dark on every hand,
and we cannot understand
all the ways of God would lead us
to that blessed promised land;
but he guides us with his eye,
and we'll follow till we die,
for we'll understand it better by and by.
(Refrain)
By and by, when the morning comes,
when the saints of God are gathered home,
we'll tell the story how we've overcome,
for we'll understand it better by and by.
Temptations, hidden snares
often take us unawares,
and our hearts are made to bleed
for a thoughtless word or deed;
and we wonder why the test
when we try to do our best,
but we'll understand it better by and by.
(Refrain)
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011
Posts: 24276
9/23/17 8:23 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Old Time Country Preacher |
Perhaps rephrasing the original question would be more helpful. An I know they is all different levels of belief within the woffie camp, but in the main, all the woffie luminaries believe, in regard to physical healing:
1. It was all took care of in the Atonement of Christ.
2. Physical symptoms are an attack of the devil, lying spirits trying to convince the believer that he/she is sick. As such, physical symptoms are to be resisted/rejected/rebuked just as one would resist/reject/rebuke a temptation involving immorality, etcs. To acknowledge, for example, that you have a splitting headache, when you do, is seen as a negative confession and should never be spoken aloud. No need for a BC powder, Jesus is the healer.
3. It is the guaranteed right, 100% of the time, ever single time ya ask, no exceptions, an perfectly in order to expect physical healing in this life.
4. When it doesn't happen..................O ye of little faith.
Now, while this is bein preached by woffie luminaries day in an day out over TBN, DayStar, by Rhema graduates, etc., when they themselves git sick, something that itself is a sin cause it means they accepted the lying symptom, they takin meds to git better their own self. Then, as in the case a some I cited, if the meds don't work, the person dies. All the while they preachin that others oughtta be livin by faith an walkin in divine health.
Ole Finis postulated in the notes a his Bible that living in divine health is the guaranteed right of ever Christian. But he ole boy is dead.
Rest assured, OTCP knows why all this happens. At its core, woffie doctrine is simply faulty. I just don't git why the woffie luminaries don't man up or woman up an be honest enuff to admit it. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15564
9/23/17 11:08 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Carolyn Smith |
|
|
| |
|
| |
Quiet Wyatt |
| Back in the 1920s, some Pentecostals taught that if one had proper faith in Jesus' words in John 11:26, they would never die physically. That teaching generally tended to die out over time, but it is very similar to what WoFers teach regarding 'divine health' as the believer's right. The influence of EW Kenyon on early Pentecostalism was unfortunately far reaching. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12792
9/24/17 2:35 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Nature Boy Florida |
Brad needs to let us know.
I suspect it was a lack of faith.
_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16619
9/24/17 2:55 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
philunderwood |
You are so devoid of substantive dialogue you resort to self aggrandizement on your always open bully pulpit. Do others a favor and spend three months in Barnabas mode instead of exhibiting a critical spirit borne in your obvious frustration.
Much more of what you despise can be supported Scripturally than your position. You use circumstance after circumstance, human after human, to give evidence to your negative belief but not Scripture.
I'd much rather be a raving WOFFIE and die than a tepid excuser and die anyway.
_________________
Live an epiK life!
Discover More...
http://www.refocusing.org
A Mission in Formation
www.bluewaterinthekeys.com |
Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
Posts: 3954
9/24/17 5:47 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| Phil |
brotherjames |
| You da man. Right on. |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 935
9/24/17 9:25 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Old Time Country Preacher |
| philunderwood wrote: | You are so devoid of substantive dialogue you resort to self aggrandizement on your always open bully pulpit. Do others a favor and spend three months in Barnabas mode instead of exhibiting a critical spirit borne in your obvious frustration.
Much more of what you despise can be supported Scripturally than your position. You use circumstance after circumstance, human after human, to give evidence to your negative belief but not Scripture.
I'd much rather be a raving WOFFIE and die than a tepid excuser and die anyway. |
Devoid of substance only to those unwilling to deviate from their woffie MO long enough to consider that what is devoid of substance is their doctrine. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15564
9/24/17 9:37 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
philunderwood |
| Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | philunderwood wrote: | You are so devoid of substantive dialogue you resort to self aggrandizement on your always open bully pulpit. Do others a favor and spend three months in Barnabas mode instead of exhibiting a critical spirit borne in your obvious frustration.
Much more of what you despise can be supported Scripturally than your position. You use circumstance after circumstance, human after human, to give evidence to your negative belief but not Scripture.
I'd much rather be a raving WOFFIE and die than a tepid excuser and die anyway. |
Devoid of substance only to those unwilling to deviate from their woffie MO long enough to consider that what is devoid of substance is their doctrine. |
PLEASE, for all of our sake, use Scripture from the New Covenant to debunk the New Covenant.
_________________
Live an epiK life!
Discover More...
http://www.refocusing.org
A Mission in Formation
www.bluewaterinthekeys.com |
Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
Posts: 3954
9/24/17 10:18 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
bonnie knox |
| Quote: | | PLEASE, for all of our sake, use Scripture from the New Covenant to debunk the New Covenant. |
In the first place, I wonder why you say OTCP is self aggrandizing. I just don't see that, but I guess we all have different perspectives. In the second place, I've never seen OTCP desirous to "debunk the New Covenant." In the third place, OTCP could use all the scripture he wanted to use and the ones who do not want to listen to him would probably have the same reactions they already have is my guess.
Scripture says the last enemy that will be conquered is death. 1 Corinthians 15:26 indicates to me that is at a future point. Jesus has paid the price for this triumph, but we are awaiting the full fruition. Until then, there is corruption and mortality. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
9/26/17 12:16 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| Re: Because they walk by faith And not by sight |
bonnie knox |
Yes, it's good to look at context. Paul just doesn't pass muster with the WOF'ers with what he is saying in this entire chapter. Essentially, he is saying, "We're being killed ourselves spreading the gospel of Jesus (the gospel that results in eternal life through the righteousness given by Christ), but our dying is so you all can have life. We are trusting Christ with our lives, and someday we'll all be in the resurrection together."
I can imagine if Paul said verse 12 of chapter 4 directly to a WOF'er, he would be soundly rebuked for speaking death.
| Dave Dorsey wrote: | | brotherjames wrote: | | 2 cor 4:13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak |
What do we speak? I know this is a complete verse, but it's not a complete sentence. It has a semi-colon after the end of it. What do we speak -- and what is the result of that speech in the rest of the sentence?
What is the ministry given in 4:1? 4:1 continues the thought from chapter 3. It's talking about speaking something specific. Of what do we speak plainly in 3:12?
What are the unseen things that we look at in 4:18? The eternal things? The exceeding and eternal weight of glory that makes the afflictions of this world seem light in comparison? It's something specific! |
|
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
9/26/17 12:37 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Old Time Country Preacher |
| bonnie knox wrote: | | Quote: | | PLEASE, for all of our sake, use Scripture from the New Covenant to debunk the New Covenant. |
In the first place, I wonder why you say OTCP is self aggrandizing. I just don't see that, but I guess we all have different perspectives. In the second place, I've never seen OTCP desirous to "debunk the New Covenant." In the third place, OTCP could use all the scripture he wanted to use and the ones who do not want to listen to him would probably have the same reactions they already have is my guess.
Scripture says the last enemy that will be conquered is death. 1 Corinthians 15:26 indicates to me that is at a future point. Jesus has paid the price for this triumph, but we are awaiting the full fruition. Until then, there is corruption and mortality. |
A unbiased an objective assessment here, Miss Bonnie. cause FIRST, nere even once, in any woffie post I've ever made, has/was they any hint of self-aggrandizement.
SECOND, it is the New Covenant verses what OTCP leans so heavily on in debunkin woffie teachin.
And, THIRD, if Hagin/Copeland/ilk had to exegete/contextualize Paul's writings correctly, they wouldn't like ole Paul much. They would even like Jesus if they interpreted him correctly. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15564
9/26/17 1:47 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
