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PART TWO: No, Jesus does not heal everybody.
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Post PART TWO: No, Jesus does not heal everybody. doyle
A link back to PART ONE is at the end of this article

This is PART TWO

One of the most joyous texts in the Bible is I Thessalonians 4:16, It shouts with absolute joy, “The Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God, and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

That joyous proclamation also confirms that not every believer was healed. Wonderful, faithful, dedicated Saints of God, had died. Most likely every one of them had prayed fervently to be physically healed – that their life could be extended.

Almost every one of us have stood in that place, praying, even sometimes begging for healing of a Loved One who was passing from this life. I have, and most likely will again sometime.

To have credibility, we should long for healing, but also prepare people that there is life beyond this life. With so much hyper-faith around these days, some ministers are fearful of telling people the truth; even Godly people die. Their reluctance is understandable to a point. Why would any minister want to be viewed as not having much faith?

Dear friends, though we are people of faith, our faith always points to life after this life. The older songs constantly reminded us that life was temporary. We should make preparation for the life to come:

“Soon this life will all be over, and our work on earth will end.
Soon we’ll take our heavenly journey, be at home again with friends.
Heaven’s gates are standing open, waiting for our entrance there,
Some sweet day we're going over, all the beauties there to share."

In my opinion. a lot of the new music is excellent too. What are some of the songs of faith you like these days, that point our thoughts heavenward?

Like you, I’m a person of faith, someone who stands ready to go if and when the Commander In Chief cuts a set of orders. But nowhere (to my knowledge) does Scripture give the false hope that everybody will be physically healed. Scripture is totally upfront with statements like "It is appointed unto men once to die, and then the judgement" (Hebrews 9:27).

In Isaiah 53:3, a prophecy of the coming Messiah, says that even He would be “acquainted with grief.” Even in that text, written 800 years before the birth of Christ, there is no indication that healing everyone was in the plan. We don’t usually grieve for people who lived.

The Lord could have healed his friend Lazarus, but He did not. The sisters of Lazarus pleaded with Jesus, “Lord, he who thou lovest is sick” (John 11:3). Just because you are sick, it does not mean Jesus has stopped loving you. Instead of a physical healing at that time, Jesus instead demonstrated the power and hope of the Resurrection.

IS DEATH A HEALING?
When speaking with those who strongly believe that Jesus heals everyone, reminding them that the death rate is 100 percent, often brings the response, “Well, death is a healing.”

Especially for those in excruciating and unending pain, death certainly can be relief and in that sense, a form of healing. However, it is understandable that most people desire healing because they do not want to die.

So, when a minister continuously emphasizes that Jesus physically heals everyone, and then the person they have been praying for dies, it does not help credibility to then say, “Well, dying is actually the healing I was talking about.”

Yes. Absolutely. Healing is possible. It can delay the inevitable, but if people didn’t die, the Biblical promise “It is appointed unto men once to die," would be false.

Yes, we should help people cling to every hope for their Loved Ones and themselves, but also focus on the hope of the Resurrection and life eternal. Evidently they were both put in place by God because He never intended to heal everyone.

Jesus said, “I go to prepare a place for you, that where I am there you may be also” (John 14:3). As it was when He made that statement, at this time, to get to that “place” requires dying. It seems obvious that Jesus did not, and does not, intend to heal everyone. God is not building earth. He’s building Heaven.

That’s my opinion. What’s yours? Enlighten me. Your wise counsel is always welcome and appreciated.

Doyle
writedoyle@gmail.com

This is the link back to PART ONE: http://www.actscelerate.com/viewtopic.php?t=87535
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Post I adamantly disagree brotherjames
Physical Healing was provided for in the atonement according to Isa. 53 and Matt. 8 :17. Just as salvation, eternal life was provided for all. Not everyone is saved are they? But does that mean salvation is not for all? Your experience and compassion as a chaplain is coloring your theology. I have preached Christ as
Healer, baptizer, saviour and King to hundreds of thousands of people in 5 continents and the islands of the seas for over 30 yrs and Jesus heals more often than He does not. Does He heal everyone no not always but I present Him as Healer for all. To do less is to play God And I also am not worried about what you call false hope. What is that? Telling someone God might heal you but probably not is no hope at all. Consider the following
Words someone else wrote.

"Is it still the will of God, as in the past, to heal all who have need of healing? The greatest barrier to the faith of many seeking healing in our day is the uncertainty in their minds as to it being the will of God to heal all. Nearly everyone knows that God does heal some, but there is much in modem theology that prevents people from knowing what the Bible clearly teaches -that healing is provided for all. It is impossible to boldly claim by faith a blessing which we are not sure God offers, because the blessings of God can be claimed only where the will of God is known, trusted, and acted upon. If we wish to know what is in a person's will, we read the will. If we want to know God's will on any subject, we read His will. Suppose a lady would say, "My husband, who was veY:'y rich, has passed away. I wish I knew whether he left me anything in his will." I would say to her, "Why do you not read his will and see?" Testament means a person's will. The Bible contains God's last will and testament, in which He bequeaths to us all of the blessings of redemption. Since it is His last will and testament, anything later is forgery. If healing is in God's will for us, then to say that God is not willing to heal all as His will states so clearly, would be to change the will and that, after the death of the testator. Jesus is not only the testator who died; but He was resurrected and is also the mediator of the will (Heb. 9:15; 12:24). He is our advocate (1 John 2:1-2), and He will not beat us out of our inheritance, as some earthly advocates might do. He is our representative at the right hand of God. There is no better way to know the will of God than by reading the Gospels, which record the teachings and the works of Christ. Jesus was the physical expression of the Father's will. His life was both a revelation and a manifestation of the unchanging love and will of God. He acted out the will of God for us. A Faith-Destroying Phrase When Jesus laid His hands on everyone of them and healed them, He was revealing and doing the will of God for all people. Lo, I come, to do your will, 0 God. Hebrews 10:7 I came down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him that sent me. John 6:38 Everything Jesus did for needy humanity during His earthly ministry was a direct revelation of the perfect will of God for the human race. F. F. Bosworth says in his book, Christ the Healer: Perhaps no one could be more conservative than the scholars of the Episcopalian church. Yet, the commission appointed to study the subject of spiritual healing for the body, after three years of study and research in both the Bible and in history, reported back to the church: The healing ofJesus was done as a revelation of God's will for humanity. Because they discovered that His will is fully revealed, they reported further: No longer can the church pray for the sick with that faith-destroying phrase, If it be your will. Mr. Bosworth goes on to say: The message taught in the Gospels is one of complete healing for spirit and body, for all who will come to Him. Many today say, "I believe in healing, but I do not believe it is for everyone." If it is not for everyone, then how could we ever pray the prayer of faith? Among all those who sought healing from Christ during His earthly ministry, there is only one who prayed for healing with the words, If it be your will. This was an outcast leper, in Mark 1:40, who did not know what Christ's will was in healing. Uncertainty Corrected The first thing Christ did was to correct this uncertainty by assuring him, I will. It is no longer, If it be your will-it is God's will. The leper said: If you will, you can. Jesus answered, I will (Mark 1:41). Let that settle it forever with you: God will heal the sick. If He wills to heal one, then He wills to heal all. He is not willing that any should perish. 2 Peter 3:9 James asks: Is any sick among you? Games 5:14). Any includes you if you are sick. Of those who were bitten by the fiery serpents, the Bible says that as many as looked to the brazen serpent lived (Num. 21:9). Even now, as many as look to Christ as redeemer are saved -are healed. When it comes to the benefits of Christ's redemptive work, all are on an equal basis. The words whoever and whoever will are always used to invite the unconverted to be saved. The words as many as, everyone, all, and any are used to invite the sick and the diseased to be healed. The Universal Invitation Both invitations are always universal, and the results are always positively promised: shall James asks: Is any sick among you? Games 5:14). Any includes you if you are sick. Of those who were bitten by the fiery serpents, the Bible says that as many as looked to the brazen serpent lived (Num. 21:9). Even now, as many as look to Christ as redeemer are saved -are healed. When it comes to the benefits of Christ's redemptive work, all are on an equal basis. The words whoever and whoever will are always used to invite the unconverted to be saved. The words as many as, everyone, all, and any are used to invite the sick and the diseased to be healed. The Universal Invitation Both invitations are always universal, and the results are always positively promised: shall were made perfectly whole. Matthew 14:36 The whole multitude sought to touch him: [and he] healed them all. Luke 6:19 When the evening came, they brought to him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bore our sicknesses. Matthew 8:16-17 Christ is still healing the sick, in order to fulfill the prophet's words: Himself took our infirmities [weaknesses], and bore our were made perfectly whole. Matthew 14:36 The whole multitude sought to touch him: [and he] healed them all. Luke 6:19 When the evening came, they brought to him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bore our sicknesses. Matthew 8:16-17 Christ is still healing the sick, in order to fulfill the prophet's words: Himself took our infirmities [weaknesses], and bore our Healing Is for All and Should Be Preached to All Philip preached Christ at Samaria: And the people with one accord gave heed to those things which Philip spoke, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did. For unclean spirits, crying with loud voice, came out of many that were possessed with them: and many with palsies, and that were lame, were healed. And there was great joy in that city. Acts 8:6-8 Jesus proved to be exactly the same when Philip told the people about Him. Peter preached Christ to the cripple (Acts 3:6), to the multitude (Acts 5:14-16), to Aeneas (Acts 9:34). All were healed. Jesus was the same for Peter. Wherever and whenever Jesus Christ is proclaimed as our sacrifice for sin and sickness, physical healing as well as spiritual salvation will result. Paul preached Christ. And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked: the same heard Paul speak: who steadfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed, said with a loud voice, Stand upright on your feet. And he leaped and walked. Acts 14:8-10 Paul must have preached the
gospel of healing, because the lame man received faith to be healed while listening to Paul's message. This Method Works Wherever healing is taught as God's provision for all, faith is always imparted and the people are always healed. This method never fails. Faith cannot fail. But faith cannot be exercised when one is undecided as to whether or not God will heal all. If He will not heal all, then we are forced to consider in every case: "I wonder if God wills to heal this one? Or is this one of the unfortunate ones whom God wills to remain sick and to suffer?" How could we ever pray the prayer of faith with such uncertainty in our minds? Let it be a settled fact: It is God's will to heal you. You have a right to healing as well as forgiveness when you believe. God said: I am the Lord who heals you (Ex. 15:26). If God said this, and God cannot lie, He meant it. What God says is true. So, healing is yours. Healing is part of the gospel and is to be preached throughout all the world and to every creature, to the end of the world (Mark 16:15; Matt. 28:20). Being part of the gospel, the divine blessing of physical healing is for all."

I think that sums up my position well. [/u]
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8/7/17 1:39 pm


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Post Jesus and Healing MI6
Jesus healed everyone that he prayed for... but Jesus did not pray for everyone that needed healing.

Example - The lame man in Acts 3 was there when Jesus passed by on every trip to the Temple... but Jesus never healed him, But Peter and John
would be used in the gifts of Healing in Jesus NAME.


Acts 3:1-8 - Now Peter and John went up together into the temple at the hour of prayer, being the ninth hour.
2 And a certain man lame from his mother's womb was carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms of them that entered into the temple;
3 Who seeing Peter and John about to go into the temple asked an alms.
4 And Peter, fastening his eyes upon him with John, said, Look on us.
5 And he gave heed unto them, expecting to receive something of them.
6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.
7 And he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up: and immediately his feet and ankle bones received strength.
8 And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking, and leaping, and praising God.

Also remember this verse - John 21:25 - Jesus also did many other things. If they were all written down, I suppose the whole world could not contain the books that would be written.
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Post So what's your point? brotherjames
If they had come to Jesus, they would have been healed. But they didn't. Everyone who comes to Jesus And confesses Him as Lord are saved but not everyone comes to Jesus. Acts-celerater
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Post It is appointed doyle
Thank you Brother James for sharing your heart. Being a Chaplain is not clouding my theology. It is my theology that motivated me to become a Chaplain after many years of pastoral ministry.

I'm a Bible-believing, born-again, and Spirit-filled Christian. I definitely believe in the power of prayer, but it seems God is not building earth. He is building Heaven. Scripture is fairly forceful that living is part of His plan for us, but so is dying.

Here is what God says, "It is appointed unto men once to die, and then the judgement." I didn't write that. We who believe the Bible is God's Word, know that God inspired that text.

Without any hesitation, God let's us know up front, that our physical life on this planet, is temporary. Jesus said, "I go to prepare a place for you that where I am there you may be also."

Jesus demonstrated personally the reality of Resurrection, but to be part of the Resurrection, one will have died. "The dead in Christ shall rise first." The Resurrection won't take place in church. It will happen in the cemetery. There is not even a hint of denial in that text that Godly people die too. In order to "rise first," means the person has died.

As stated previously, most likely every one of those who died in the faith, had asked God to heal them. Instead, for reasons far beyond what I know, He let them die, and now they wait for the Resurrection.

Listen, it's not news I like either. I so much wish that every person who needs and wants physical healing, would receive it. But just as they are here, the hospitals near you are filled to the brim. Numbers of those patients are dedicated people who love God and have begged God in faith- believing, to be healed.

Most definitely, healing is part of our faith-believing message, but promising that God heals everyone who asks, is simply not the case. God lets a lot of good people die. You know some of them, and so do I.

My Mom, Dad, Grandmother, Grandfather and other Godly relatives , have departed from this life for one of those "places" the Lord has prepared.

Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Isaiah, Daniel, David, even Jesus and all those who lived during the Old Testament and New Testament, have departed this life.
And as much as I dislike hearing and knowing it, Scripture indicates that it is part of God's plan.

Should we then preach and teach the possibility of healing? Absolutely. Scripture teaches that "with God, all things are possible." Should we pray for people to be healed? I certainly do, and will continue to do so. Some are alive because I prayed. Others longed for and believed just as much for healing, and I prayed just has hard for them, but they were not healed.

I believe we should stay healthy and alive as long as possible. Jesus said we are the light of the world. As stated previously, the world is a dark place, so we should keep the light on as long as possible.

However, though we believe in healing, the message we have for the world, is far more important than physical healing. Our message is that Jesus died on the Cross for our sins. He is coming again, but if He tarries, these mortal bodies will die and await the Resurrection.

For the believer, "To be absent from the body, is to be present with the Lord." Unbelievers will not be present with the Lord. Our bodies will be placed in the grave, but when the trumpet of God shall sound, "the dead in Christ will rise first."

God has given us a certain amount of time in this life, so we can honor Him and share the good news that He is preparing a place for us. But to ever reach that place, we must prepare by asking Him to be the Lord of our life.

Eternity is too long, to get it wrong. Make things right with God so when this life is over, Heaven will be our home.

Doyle
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8/7/17 10:49 pm


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Post Re: It is appointed bradfreeman
doyle wrote:

...Here is what God says, "It is appointed unto men once to die, and then the judgement." I didn't write that. We who believe the Bible is God's Word, know that God inspired that text...

Doyle


First, this inspired passage has been pulled out of context and robbed of its beauty.

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, 28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

This passage is not a promise from God of death and judgment. It is the truth that another was offered, that He died our death. It is the truth that another took our sins, that for which we would be judged. It is the truth that Jesus kept our appointment with death and judgment...He tasted death for every man.

Heb. 2:9 But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.

Finally, those of us who "are alive and remain" will not die a physical death. In fact, Jesus promise to believers is that they will never die, nor come into judgment. Even those who die, don't die. Here are some other inspired passages on death and judgment you may wish to include in your study.

John 3:18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 11:26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

John 5:24“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Your premise that Jesus doesn't heal everyone is true. But it doesn't address the real questions:

Does Jesus want to heal everyone?
Did Jesus provide for healing for everyone in the atonement?

And the answers to these questions, as others have said in this thread, is "yes". If you can provide some scriptural evidence of Jesus refusing to heal someone who believed, I will reconsider.
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Post Nature Boy Florida
Doyle,

Please enjoy your interactions with your posters on this thread.

Summation:
If Christian folks had enough faith, they would be healed. Always.

Please share those words with all the saints you come across in the hospital today.

Tell them their lack of faith is keeping them in that hospital bed.

Just because you heap discouragement and guilt upon their already sick bodies - no matter - you tell them the truth of Brad's teaching.
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Post bradfreeman
Nature Boy Florida wrote:
Tell them their lack of faith is keeping them in that hospital bed.

Just because you heap discouragement and guilt upon their already sick bodies - no matter - you tell them the truth of Brad's teaching.


NBF, maybe you should tell them God wants them sick, tell them to get out of that hospital and stop trying to resist the will of God by getting well!
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Post Nature Boy Florida
bradfreeman wrote:
Nature Boy Florida wrote:
Tell them their lack of faith is keeping them in that hospital bed.

Just because you heap discouragement and guilt upon their already sick bodies - no matter - you tell them the truth of Brad's teaching.


NBF, maybe you should tell them God wants them sick, tell them to get out of that hospital and stop trying to resist the will of God by getting well!


Sure - after you tell them how cruel he is for not giving them enough faith to get them healed - since he really wants to heal all of them all of the time IF they have faith - but he didn't give them enough faith.
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Post Old Time Country Preacher
Place Brother James in the role of a Hospice chaplain for one year. He will eliminate the very need for Hospice. All the sick will be healed an no one will ever die. Heaven will be right here on earth, so they aint no need to wait for heaven to enjoy no sickness/sorrow/pain.

Ummmm, even though the good Book presents it a totally different way.
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Post bradfreeman
Nature Boy Florida wrote:
bradfreeman wrote:
Nature Boy Florida wrote:
Tell them their lack of faith is keeping them in that hospital bed.

Just because you heap discouragement and guilt upon their already sick bodies - no matter - you tell them the truth of Brad's teaching.


NBF, maybe you should tell them God wants them sick, tell them to get out of that hospital and stop trying to resist the will of God by getting well!


Sure - after you tell them how cruel he is for not giving them enough faith to get them healed - since he really wants to heal all of them all of the time IF they have faith - but he didn't give them enough faith.


God gives every man the measure of faith. Despite your theology, God is NOT the problem.
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Post Nature Boy Florida
bradfreeman wrote:
Nature Boy Florida wrote:
bradfreeman wrote:
Nature Boy Florida wrote:
Tell them their lack of faith is keeping them in that hospital bed.

Just because you heap discouragement and guilt upon their already sick bodies - no matter - you tell them the truth of Brad's teaching.


NBF, maybe you should tell them God wants them sick, tell them to get out of that hospital and stop trying to resist the will of God by getting well!


Sure - after you tell them how cruel he is for not giving them enough faith to get them healed - since he really wants to heal all of them all of the time IF they have faith - but he didn't give them enough faith.


God gives every man the measure of faith. Despite your theology, God is NOT the problem.


God gives you faith - I totally agree.
I also agree God isn't the problem - just your theology.

You criticize men not healed as lacking enough faith.

So is there an amount of works that man needs to add to reach the "always be healed" level?
What spiritual calisthenics does God require to reach the "always healed" level?

Either He gives the faith or he doesn't.
You say he gives faith - but not enough to be healed.
If he doesn't give enough faith - how do you get the "always healed" faith?

If God doesn't give it - what must man do to earn it?

Please share with us what that is.

If Prayer? How much?
If fasting? How much?
If Bible reading - how many times through?
If Tithing? How much?
If something else - how much?
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Post Chicago27
How about the Disciples? Did they suffer? Did Timothy suffer many infirmities? Did Peter suggest he proclaim his healing? Friendly Face
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Post diakoneo
I am glad my faith is not in faith but rather it is in Jesus! He said we would have trouble in this world but some apparently doubt that. Perhaps they think that was meant for those who were lacking faith. When trouble comes they start casting out devils and wondering where He is. Well He said I will never leave you...nor forsake you. He didn't promise instant healing. He didn't promise a world without persecution. He promised He would never leave us!

Jesus told Peter, "Satan desires to sift you like wheat" Jesus didn't pray that Peter would not be sifted, jumbled up, go through storms etc. He prayed that his faith would not fail. What faith was He speaking of? Jesus words to Peter upon his profession was, "upon this rock I will build my church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it." It is our faith in Him that gives us stability. It is not when we see miracles, though I believe they happen, Christ wants us to put our faith in Him. It is not the results of faith that we should exalt but rather the God of our faith. The God of miracles!

Faith is not something merely to receive physical healing. It is something to be able to stand in the shaking and stand firm on the rock! I have seen too many precious saints suffer greatly. They were faithful to Christ. I have watched them as their soul was leaving there body of suffering die in peace because their trust was in Christ. They trusted Him for healing of the physical body. They didn't receive that but they still had peace because their trust was in Christ and He hadn't left them
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Post To Brad doyle
Brother Brad, I did not write Hebrews 9:27. You will have to convince the writer of that passage that it does not say "It is appointed once for men to die."

Actually, the words "It is appointed unto man once to die," is exactly what that text says. That includes all the great men in the Bible including the one who wrote Hebrews 9:27. It is quite shocking to see your statement to the contrary. I looked again to see if I had misread what you wrote. I copied and pasted your statement:

In your first post of this thread, your statement about Hebrews 9:27 was: "This passage is not a promise from God of death and judgment."

Whether men will face a judgement or not, has long been debated. There seems to be good people on both sides of that discourse. However, I have never heard anyone dispute that Hebrews 9:27 says, except for those who are alive and remain when Christ returns, will die.

Bro. that is good news. I have never been a fan of what the writer of Hebrews 9:27 penned thousands of years ago. So, please feel free to share your heart on how "It is appointed unto men once to die...," is not what what it says.

Doyle
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Post Re: To Brad bradfreeman
doyle wrote:
Brother Brad, I did not write Hebrews 9:27. You will have to convince the writer of that passage that it does not say "It is appointed once for men to die."

Actually, the words "It is appointed unto man once to die," is exactly what that text says. That includes all the great men in the Bible including the one who wrote Hebrews 9:27. It is quite shocking to see your statement to the contrary. I looked again to see if I had misread what you wrote. I copied and pasted your statement:

In your first post of this thread, your statement about Hebrews 9:27 was: "This passage is not a promise from God of death and judgment."

Whether men will face a judgement or not, has long been debated. There seems to be good people on both sides of that discourse. However, I have never heard anyone dispute that Hebrews 9:27 says, except for those who are alive and remain when Christ returns, will die.

Bro. that is good news. I have never been a fan of what the writer of Hebrews 9:27 penned thousands of years ago. So, please feel free to share your heart on how "It is appointed unto men once to die...," is not what what it says.

Doyle
writedoyle@gmail.com


Thanks Doyle, I thing I addressed this in your "gentlemanly challenge" thread.

Everyone had an appointment with death. Jesus kept it (Heb. 2:9).
Everyone had an appointment with judgment. Jesus kept it (Jn 3:17; Jn 12:31,32; Jn 5:24).

It certainly doesn't mean that everyone will physically die. They didn't and they won't. Enoch didn't. Those who are alive and remain won't.
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8/22/17 7:37 am


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Post bradfreeman
diakoneo wrote:
I am glad my faith is not in faith but rather it is in Jesus! He said we would have trouble in this world but some apparently doubt that.


The trouble Jesus told us we'd experience wasn't cancer or Alzheimer's. It was that we'd be persecuted for righteousness sake and hated by religion.
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8/22/17 7:39 am


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Post bradfreeman
Nature Boy Florida wrote:
God gives you faith - I totally agree.


Very Happy

Quote:
I also agree God isn't the problem - just your theology.


Sorry NBF, your theology says God IS the problem...He wants them sick.

Quote:
You criticize men not healed as lacking enough faith.


Interestingly, Jesus frequently criticized His disciples lack of faith...particularly when they couldn't get a solution to a problem.

Quote:
So is there an amount of works that man needs to add to reach the "always be healed" level?
What spiritual calisthenics does God require to reach the "always healed" level?


You equate faith with works. God doesn't. Faith is rest. It isn't thinking "I'll be heard if I pray a lot" or "I'll be healed if I fast for a week." It's letting your heart come to rest in the faithfulness of your Father. We've been so conditioned to ask ourselves questions like: "Am I sick because I sinned?" or "Is this happening because God's mad at me?" or "Am I struggling financially because God's teaching me something?" All of this puts our focus squarely on us. Faith puts its focus, its confidence on the love of a faithful Father demonstrated plainly "while we were helpless", "while we were enemies" and "while we were sinners" (see Rom 5)...regardless of our behavior.

Quote:
Either He gives the faith or he doesn't.
You say he gives faith - but not enough to be healed.
If he doesn't give enough faith - how do you get the "always healed" faith?

If God doesn't give it - what must man do to earn it?

Please share with us what that is.


Faith comes by hearing the Word of Christ. The message of redemption let's our heart know He loves us, we can trust Him, He is for us and not against us. Abandon the self-centered idea that you can "earn" the love and care He gives even the birds and flowers...without sowing or reaping, without toiling or spinning.

Faith enters into the rest of His finished work...cities you didn't build, vineyards you didn't plant and wells you didn't dig. Faith doesn't start you building, digging and planting. It's restless heart that is in unbelief (see Heb. 3 and 4).
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8/22/17 7:49 am


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Post bradfreeman
Chicago27 wrote:
How about the Disciples? Did they suffer? Did Timothy suffer many infirmities? Did Peter suggest he proclaim his healing?


It's a very Calvinistic view to suggest that, because something happens, it's God's will. They suffered the persecution Jesus told them they would "for righteousness sake". He told them the religious world that hated Him would hate them too...it did.

As for Timothy, Paul didn't tell Him it was God's will for him to have infirmities, "just suck it up and suffer for God." He told him to drink wine to fight the infirmities, not to fight God or God's will.

If you really think God wants you sick, stop taking medicine or going to the doctor...you're resisting God.
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8/22/17 7:53 am


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Post diakoneo
bradfreeman wrote:
diakoneo wrote:
I am glad my faith is not in faith but rather it is in Jesus! He said we would have trouble in this world but some apparently doubt that.


The trouble Jesus told us we'd experience wasn't cancer or Alzheimer's. It was that we'd be persecuted for righteousness sake and hated by religion.


The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. It is weak in so many ways. Christ prayed for Peter that his faith did not fail him. Not that he would not have to endure. Faith is enduring this fight of flesh and NOT averting various trials thereof.

I know a precious saint...a pastor's wife...who has been dealing with dementia/Alzheimer's for the past 10 years. Her husband has more belief than anyone I know. He/they and the church have been praying for her and believing God for her healing for that long. It hasn't gotten much worse which is a miracle in itself but it has not left either. This former pastor takes care of his wife 24/7. He himself also has health problems. He has some kind of disease of the heart where if he stands for a certain period of time he will just pass out. He is mostly confined to a wheel chair. We have prayed and believed God for both's healing. Regardless of their healing, these people are filled with faith. Not because of their healing but in spite of the lack of healing.

So the faithful continue on and those who think they are above these kind of trials should rethink it.
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8/24/17 7:34 am


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