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 I can tolerate a certain amount of spiritual ignorance, but |
JLarry |
I have been in Pentecostal churches all of my 67 years of life.
I cannot say I have seen it all but I have seen a lot. Gold dust, uncontrolled laughter, saw one man many times teaching a deaf person to say baby. Some things I don't understand so I choose not to judge. Once I was in a service where a missionary was speaking. She had a Spanish lady with her. Someone gave a message in tongues. I had the interpretation but someone beat me to it so I said nothing. The Spanish lady did not know me but walked across the sanctuary, walked up to me and asked if I had the interpretation, I said yes. She took me to the speaker and said this man has the interpretation and handed me the mike. Never saw it like that before or since. Different, yes but it was in order. I have seen the gifts misused many times, by Charismatics and traditional Pentecostals. I have been in services where everyone had a "word". I have known of those teaching how to prophesy.
If someone here can prove that Bill Johnson teaches grave sucking I will mark Johnson from my list. I have heard him speak, read one book. Love their music. But I will write him off if he teaches such nonsense. Like I said I can take some ignorance but I would draw the line there.
Yes I saw the video the man created but I did not see Johnson endorsing such nonsense.
There are some on Acts that are against everyone that is different. Well, mark me off because I am different. In fact I don't know anyone who is not different in some way.
Oh btw, I heard of a man following another everywhere he went. The older man tried to get him to leave him but he insisted in following saying, I want what you have. And he got it, in fact he got it times two. He would have been criticized if a few Acts posters had been around then.
_________________
Recorded Sermons @ www.pastorwiley.com
No one who died without Christ is happy about their decision. |
Acts Mod
Posts: 3346
6/15/17 4:16 pm
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JLarry |
Don't know why this posted twice. I must have a double anointing. 
_________________
Recorded Sermons @ www.pastorwiley.com
No one who died without Christ is happy about their decision. |
Acts Mod
Posts: 3346
6/15/17 4:28 pm
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Charles Page |
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JLarry |
I wonder what the guy who produced the video would have said about S. Ga. Campmeeting last week.
Quite sure he would have been critical.
_________________
Recorded Sermons @ www.pastorwiley.com
No one who died without Christ is happy about their decision. |
Acts Mod
Posts: 3346
6/15/17 6:10 pm
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Cojak |
| JLarry wrote: | | Don't know why this posted twice. I must have a double anointing. |
 
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
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Posts: 24277
6/15/17 8:10 pm
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Cojak |
I think anyone being around the Pentecostal movement for over 15 years would agree with the OP.
Things like the interpretations. I have felt moved at times during a message BUT NEVER have I been SURE I had the interpretation. As JL said He KNEW he had THE interpretation, I believe when you are touched by God and anointed to 'say or do' something, it will not be a guess, a "I THINK THAT MEANS THIS" etc.
Yes and Yes again we have wonderful Christians who get carried away at times and rely on the flesh. It is easy to do when all around you feels like The Spirt is being manifest.
JMO
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
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Posts: 24277
6/15/17 9:33 pm
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Cojak |
I ain't gonna say I posted twice, but it sure looked like it and I did ot feel the double portion.... I carry a bad cell signal around for some reason. 
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
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Posts: 24277
6/15/17 9:34 pm
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| Re: I can tolerate a certain amount of spiritual ignorance, but |
FLRon |
| JLarry wrote: | I have been in Pentecostal churches all of my 67 years of life.
I cannot say I have seen it all but I have seen a lot. Gold dust, uncontrolled laughter, saw one man many times teaching a deaf person to say baby. Some things I don't understand so I choose not to judge. Once I was in a service where a missionary was speaking. She had a Spanish lady with her. Someone gave a message in tongues. I had the interpretation but someone beat me to it so I said nothing. The Spanish lady did not know me but walked across the sanctuary, walked up to me and asked if I had the interpretation, I said yes. She took me to the speaker and said this man has the interpretation and handed me the mike. Never saw it like that before or since. Different, yes but it was in order. I have seen the gifts misused many times, by Charismatics and traditional Pentecostals. I have been in services where everyone had a "word". I have known of those teaching how to prophesy.
If someone here can prove that Bill Johnson teaches grave sucking I will mark Johnson from my list. I have heard him speak, read one book. Love their music. But I will write him off if he teaches such nonsense. Like I said I can take some ignorance but I would draw the line there.
Yes I saw the video the man created but I did not see Johnson endorsing such nonsense.
There are some on Acts that are against everyone that is different. Well, mark me off because I am different. In fact I don't know anyone who is not different in some way.
Oh btw, I heard of a man following another everywhere he went. The older man tried to get him to leave him but he insisted in following saying, I want what you have. And he got it, in fact he got it times two. He would have been criticized if a few Acts posters had been around then. |
I have read more than enough about this man to convince me that I want nothin to do with his teachings. Only because of the interest generated by this thread, I searched and found the following.
From Bewatchful.org
"Grave Sucking / Mantle Grabbing
In response to accusations, Kris Vallotton had already posted a text on the topic on Facebook. The text is contradictory, as Kris Vallotton first says that he had never heard about grave sucking until a few months prior. But further down the article, he writes that it was a running joke at Bethel. As for the rest, the position that he adopts in the article is correct in that he rebukes the idea that one could receive the anointing of a deceased person by laying on their grave.
Granted this is just a joke, it doesn’t change the fact that by not communicating about it clearly, the practice misleads many. It is a bad joke, to say the least.
In the interview by Michael Brown, Bill Johnson confirms that Bethel Church does not teach people to seek anointing on deceased people’s graves, which is good to hear.
However, he does say that God told him to honor those that he considers great men of the faith, and that if we honor them, then God can release the same anointing again. He said this in the past already, and it is the reason why he is building a library museum with artifacts from past revivals, such as items that belong to Kathryn Kuhlman. God told him that he would then receive their anointing. Bill Johnson is thus expecting to receive the anointing of the people that will be honored in his museum. Thus there is no laying on graves, but we can’t help seeing the similarities.
Bill Johnson also wrote this is his book “Physics of Heaven” :
“There are anointings, mantles, revelations and mysteries that have lain unclaimed, literally where they were left, because the generation that walked in them never passed them on. I believe it’s possible for us to recover realms of anointing, realms of insight, realms of God that have been untended for decades simply by choosing to reclaim them and perpetuate them for future generations.” (Davis, 2012) Physics of Heaven – Bill Johnson
Hence, Bill Johnson teaches that anointings are unique and can be passed on. It is possible to get a hold of them where they have been left (and thus, where would that be, other than where the person who had that anointing died?)".
This man is in serious error concerning the scriptures. I would advise all to steer clear, and that's all I'll say about it so as not to offend anyone.
_________________
“Hell will be filled with people that didn’t cuss, didn’t drink, and may even have been baptized. Why? Because none of those things makes someone a Christian.”
Voddie Baucham |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 769
6/15/17 10:28 pm
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diakoneo |
| Quote: | | “There are anointings, mantles, revelations and mysteries that have lain unclaimed, literally where they were left, because the generation that walked in them never passed them on. I believe it’s possible for us to recover realms of anointing, realms of insight, realms of God that have been untended for decades simply by choosing to reclaim them and perpetuate them for future generations.” (Davis, 2012) Physics of Heaven – Bill Johnson |
Nonsense...foolish...unbiblical...goofy |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3382
6/15/17 11:05 pm
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| Bill Johnson |
brotherjames |
happens to be a friend of mine. I disagree with him and with Randy Clark over the idea of impartation. How can I give you something that is not mine to give? According to 1 Cor 12, the Holy Spirit gives out severally as HE wills. That said, In chaper 14 the Word encourages us to Desire even covet Spiritual gifts/ings. When Paul prayed and laid hands on Timothy, 2 Timothy 1:6 received the Holy Spirit and was prophesied over and told he would receive an anointing but it was the Holy Spirit who anointed Him.
However, I have known Bill Johnson for a long time. He was a 4th generation AG pastor until he pulled out of the AG a few years ago. You can disagree with some of his teachings bit to write him off as a heretic is going to far. He is a passionate follower of Jesus. He is impacting the world for Jesus. He is making converts and disciples of Christ all over the world. I defy you to listen to 5 of his sermons and find more than 2 things that stray from orthodox pentecostal teachings. And before OTCP says it, he was wrong about Todd Bentley too. He got deceived just like I did (I had Todd at my church in 2004 before he was well known and I was sorry immediately that I had done it, we can all miss it sometimes. The gold dust, the feathers I have been hearing about but never seen, seem dumb to me but Bill's teachings are 99 % right on. At least they seem that way to me. He is not into the prosperity message abd not really WOF. But he and I both ate about signs, wonders and miracles for today. I thought Pentecostals were too. Don't throw our the baby with the bath water and miss a move of God in the process. You guys wouldn't have liked Pensacola, Smithton or Toronto either and I guarantee you wouldn't have liked Smith Wigglesworth, Maria Woodworth Eddy or Kathryn Kuhl man but as weird as they sometimes were, there were still of God. |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 935
6/16/17 6:03 am
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| Re: Bill Johnson |
Old Time Country Preacher |
| brotherjames wrote: | happens to be a friend of mine. I disagree with him and with Randy Clark over the idea of impartation. How can I give you something that is not mine to give? According to 1 Cor 12, the Holy Spirit gives out severally as HE wills. That said, In chaper 14 the Word encourages us to Desire even covet Spiritual gifts/ings. When Paul prayed and laid hands on Timothy, 2 Timothy 1:6 received the Holy Spirit and was prophesied over and told he would receive an anointing but it was the Holy Spirit who anointed Him.
However, I have known Bill Johnson for a long time. He was a 4th generation AG pastor until he pulled out of the AG a few years ago. You can disagree with some of his teachings bit to write him off as a heretic is going to far. He is a passionate follower of Jesus. He is impacting the world for Jesus. He is making converts and disciples of Christ all over the world. I defy you to listen to 5 of his sermons and find more than 2 things that stray from orthodox pentecostal teachings. And before OTCP says it, he was wrong about Todd Bentley too. He got deceived just like I did (I had Todd at my church in 2004 before he was well known and I was sorry immediately that I had done it, we can all miss it sometimes. The gold dust, the feathers I have been hearing about but never seen, seem dumb to me but Bill's teachings are 99 % right on. At least they seem that way to me. He is not into the prosperity message abd not really WOF. But he and I both ate about signs, wonders and miracles for today. I thought Pentecostals were too. Don't throw our the baby with the bath water and miss a move of God in the process. You guys wouldn't have liked Pensacola, Smithton or Toronto either and I guarantee you wouldn't have liked Smith Wigglesworth, Maria Woodworth Eddy or Kathryn Kuhl man but as weird as they sometimes were, there were still of God. |
The issue here is discernment. One may expect a new believer, before he is grounded in the faith, to embrace such moros as has been described in this thread. But Bill Johnson is in his 60's, claims to be a prophet of God, and continues to "miss it" over and over again. He would have already been stoned if he had lived in the Old Testament era as a false prophet for repeatedly "missing it." I've had friends in the ministry as well who ventured into ignorance/sensationalism/etc., and I never invited them to speak again. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15565
6/16/17 8:40 am
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| Re: Bill Johnson |
c6thplayer1 |
| Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | brotherjames wrote: | happens to be a friend of mine. I disagree with him and with Randy Clark over the idea of impartation. How can I give you something that is not mine to give? According to 1 Cor 12, the Holy Spirit gives out severally as HE wills. That said, In chaper 14 the Word encourages us to Desire even covet Spiritual gifts/ings. When Paul prayed and laid hands on Timothy, 2 Timothy 1:6 received the Holy Spirit and was prophesied over and told he would receive an anointing but it was the Holy Spirit who anointed Him.
However, I have known Bill Johnson for a long time. He was a 4th generation AG pastor until he pulled out of the AG a few years ago. You can disagree with some of his teachings bit to write him off as a heretic is going to far. He is a passionate follower of Jesus. He is impacting the world for Jesus. He is making converts and disciples of Christ all over the world. I defy you to listen to 5 of his sermons and find more than 2 things that stray from orthodox pentecostal teachings. And before OTCP says it, he was wrong about Todd Bentley too. He got deceived just like I did (I had Todd at my church in 2004 before he was well known and I was sorry immediately that I had done it, we can all miss it sometimes. The gold dust, the feathers I have been hearing about but never seen, seem dumb to me but Bill's teachings are 99 % right on. At least they seem that way to me. He is not into the prosperity message abd not really WOF. But he and I both ate about signs, wonders and miracles for today. I thought Pentecostals were too. Don't throw our the baby with the bath water and miss a move of God in the process. You guys wouldn't have liked Pensacola, Smithton or Toronto either and I guarantee you wouldn't have liked Smith Wigglesworth, Maria Woodworth Eddy or Kathryn Kuhl man but as weird as they sometimes were, there were still of God. |
The issue here is discernment. One may expect a new believer, before he is grounded in the faith, to embrace such moros as has been described in this thread. But Bill Johnson is in his 60's, claims to be a prophet of God, and continues to "miss it" over and over again. He would have already been stoned if he had lived in the Old Testament era as a false prophet for repeatedly "missing it." I've had friends in the ministry as well who ventured into ignorance/sensationalism/etc., and I never invited them to speak again. |
Exactly why a "REAL" Phd is more valuable that a milled one. People should check this out before following leaders. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6385
6/16/17 10:51 am
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| Ct |
brotherjames |
| Keep to the music dept, you don't know whereof you speak. What's a PhD got to do with anything. Bill, as far as I am aware has never called himself Dr. Sheesh. |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 935
6/16/17 1:34 pm
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bonnie knox |
Who is Dr. Sheesh?
| Quote: | | Bill, as far as I am aware has never called himself Dr. Sheesh. |
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[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
6/16/17 1:38 pm
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| Re: Ct |
Old Time Country Preacher |
| brotherjames wrote: | | Keep to the music dept, you don't know whereof you speak. What's a PhD got to do with anything. Bill, as far as I am aware has never called himself Dr. Sheesh. |
C is simply using a legitimate PhD as an example of "the real thing." It's a metaphor, BJ.
False Prophet / Fake PhD
True Prophet / Legitimate PhD |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15565
6/16/17 2:07 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| bonnie knox wrote: | | Who is Dr. Sheesh? |
The answer here, Miss Bonnie, is ever preacher (COG or not) what uses the title "Dr" when all they got is a worthless piece a paper. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15565
6/16/17 2:08 pm
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bonnie knox |
| Well, I was just being a little snarky. I always hate that euphemism for "Jesus." |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
6/16/17 2:10 pm
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c6thplayer1 |
| bonnie knox wrote: | Who is Dr. Sheesh?
| Quote: | | Bill, as far as I am aware has never called himself Dr. Sheesh. |
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Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6385
6/16/17 2:45 pm
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| Well actually |
brotherjames |
| I never realized sheesh was a euphemism for Jesus. I am innocent of your snark. Maybe I'll just use oyvay instead. Please let me snarkily know if that's a euphemism for Moses, I might have missed that too. |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 935
6/16/17 4:51 pm
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| Now you know! |
bonnie knox |
| Quote: | | I never realized sheesh was a euphemism for Jesus. |
sheesh
(ʃiʃ)
interj.
(used to express exasperation).
[euphemistic shortening of Jesus]
Random House Kernerman Webster's College Dictionary, © 2010 K Dictionaries Ltd. Copyright 2005, 1997, 1991 by Random House, Inc. All rights reserved. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
6/16/17 8:03 pm
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