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Cojak

Do 'spanked' members do better?

01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24276 **6/10/17 3:44 pm**

Except for about a 15 year break, I have been around the COG all my life. I was raised in a parsonage and also pastored for about 6-7 years. Most of the time I was just a member.

I have heard preachers complain about the members of their church. I have read on Acts that some pastor down in Texas had some 'members from hell'.

Honestly, in my 16 years living in the parsonage of my parents, I NEVER heard my dad complain nor down grade any member of his church. Dad was an early pioneer pastor in the COG. When he heard of a 'split' in a church Once I heard him tell mama, "I have never met the Christian that with enough 'shared' prayers and tears we can't work things out," he continued to mama, " Honey, I told Bro xxx, he could get anything done if he did not care who got the credit." At the time Dad was the district overseer.

I have known preachers who seemed to 'relish' being 'hardboiled' with his members. 'Toe the line, my way or the highway, I will turn you out!'

That last attitude actually used to work. People feared God, and the preacher was His Voice on EArth.

I have had friends who did not 'like' their pastor and his way of doing things and left.

BAck when preachers moved every 2-4 years some members had the attitude I will be here after he is gone, I will wait it out. Now with pastors staying longer (which I agree with) you have less who want to 'wait it out' and will leave.

I personally know only two members that it would be good for the pastor to 'correct', they gossip a lot.

How is it handled presently?

At our church it seems to be ignored (which may be best). Do you as pastors have to face 'correcting' a member often?
Embarassed

_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/

Nature Boy Florida

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16619 **6/11/17 7:49 am**

Yes, they do better - until they leave.

Could be 10 years - could be 10 seconds,
_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today!

Cojak

01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24276 **6/11/17 9:22 am**

caseyleejones

..some pastors feel the sheep need a good sheering..

Acts-perienced Poster Posts: 11791 **6/13/17 12:24 pm**

But it doesn't work. It's a heart issue and until you change that, the behavior will continue. There are two sides to this coin.

The goodness of God leads to repentance.

Why pastors feel the need to sheer or beat the sheep on Sunday morning is beyond me.

Da Sheik

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1860 **6/13/17 3:30 pm**

I have learned that things have a way of working themselves out. I don't feel the need to do much in the way of "spanking". I will share this however. I normally don't like to mention race, but because I am the child of an interracial marriage, I've observed two differing approaches and responses.

Most white churches that attempt to apply discipline, soon learn that the offending party will either leave the church or attempt to cause discord. Growing up in black churches, I noticed that the pastors wouldn't hesitate to rebuke members and that they typically would submit to that and act accordingly.

There are many funny stories I could tell, but I remember pastors making choir members sit down in the pew until their punishment was over, boys not being allowed to play on athletic teams, etc. I remember one lady had been out sick for about a month and had missed services. The pastor came to her house to collect her tithes and get her "caught up". Laughing

Cojak

01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24276 **6/13/17 9:14 pm**

Methocostal

Friendly Face Posts: 496 **6/14/17 4:11 pm**

LOL

Cojak

01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24276 **6/14/17 10:09 pm**

Aaron Scott

Some things I'm learning...

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6032 **6/15/17 12:12 pm**

First, I know that I always "did better"--at least for the next few minutes--after I got a spanking from my dad. I can still remember getting a spanking on the front porch of the old Murphy Church of God (NC) as the singers sang "Give Me That Old Time Religion." My dad was the evangelist...but he, um, made time for me right during the altar service.

Now, more seriously....

I have found that if you are too "soft" and "gentle," you can wind up allowing things to go in directions you would not have preferred. Or, for that matter, in not much of a direction at all. A pastor must have some sort of drive in some direction (we tend to call this "vision," but in most cases it's not really a vision, I don't think; rather it is a PREFERENCE, though often based on good faith and intelligence). A pastor must be willing to say what is needed. For instance, there have been time when, in the interest of not pushing someone too hard, or not wanting to hurt feelings, I have likely been too easy going...allowing things to go on until they HAD to be dealt with. The bad news is that it was permitted to go on until I HAD to deal with it...the good news is--assuming this is good news--I didn't have to get "blood" on my hands, but rather let events move a person on or out. That can be of benefit in that it allows you to continue having some connection. I just hate to hurt folks' feelings when I believe they are doing the best they can.

(For instance, lets say you have a Sunday School teacher who doesn't too a great job, but is the one who is faithful to do it week after week...and no one else much wants to do it--or is even worse. You want to tell him/her that they simply have got to move up a level...but they often have no real concept of what the means. I have been at the mercy of teachers who, some former pastor, years before, put them teaching the Adult SS after being saved about six months. Good intentions...poor results. But by waiting, they were moved on "providentially"--perhaps God knew I didn't know exactly how to handle it?)

On the other hand, you can be too hard. You can be a pastor that has something to say about EVERYTHING, micro-managing the life out of matters. You can have an attitude of "I'm the pastor, I have the vision, do it my way or else." Never works out good, I don't think. Those with sense, leave; those without sense, stay...and so a church become run by folks who don't have an drive beyond that of the pastor. So, when the pastor eventually leaves...it is just about over for the church.

Many years ago, I read of some guru, in response to a protégé (NOT a "mentee"--whatever that is!) having a good idea, said, "Why should I have all the good ideas?" Indeed, pastor, you may have some ideas, you may have to shepherd ideas to keep them between the lines, but other folks are going to have ideas and visions, too. If you keep steamrolling their vision with yours, they will eventually leave it ALL up to you. Often such pastors can become somewhat dictatorial. There are people who seem to thrive in such environments--maybe they need such a strong hand? But others will wilt. They are simply not going to waste their time in an environment where no one is encouraged to step out on their own.

Now, the next is likely neither here nor there regarding this, but I have simply tried to make sure that our church is stressing what God is blessing. Our (initially) white, somewhat elderly congregation has become a growing haven for the young African American children of the neighborhood. Go figure! But if God is blessing it, we are stressing it. Yes, some come initially for the snacks we serve during mid-week. But sooner or later, they are coming for kid's choir practice, to beat on the drums, to be with their friends, etc. They are slowly building, it seems, around the our church--just as many of us did as young people. They'll come by during the week and ask for a cookie...or if they can wash our car for a couple of bucks, etc. I get a whole lot done that I don't feel energetic enough to do by giving these kids a couple of bucks apiece to pulls vines, pick up any wayward trash, etc. You don't know how good it does me to hear some 7-year-old child say, "Pastor, can I...?" I have one kid--oh, my goodness, was he a mean mess when he started--about 7-years-old, I guess, who shows up "religiously" every Sunday morning because he is an usher who receives the offering. And at kid's choir, he doesn't sing, but my wife bought him a little drum from a garage sell...and he watches my brother drumming and hammers away--and he's not half bad!

I have had to verbally "spank" those kids a number of times. But because it is done in true love--I mess up in a million different ways, I'm sure; but I do know that I love those kids--they keep right on coming back. Maybe it's because it's better than anything going on at home, but either way, we believe the Lord is touching them.

OK, enough from me.

Cojak

01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24276 **6/15/17 3:26 pm**

To quote Aaron:

Now, the next is likely neither here nor there regarding this, but I have simply tried to make sure that our church is stressing what God is blessing. Our (initially) white, somewhat elderly congregation has become a growing haven for the young African American children of the neighborhood. Go figure! But if God is blessing it, we are stressing it. Yes, some come initially for the snacks we serve during mid-week. But sooner or later, they are coming for kid's choir practice, to beat on the drums, to be with their friends, etc. They are slowly building, it seems, around the our church--just as many of us did as young people. They'll come by during the week and ask for a cookie...or if they can wash our car for a couple of bucks, etc. I get a whole lot done that I don't feel energetic enough to do by giving these kids a couple of bucks apiece to pulls vines, pick up any wayward trash, etc. You don't know how good it does me to hear some 7-year-old child say, "Pastor, can I...?" I have one kid--oh, my goodness, was he a mean mess when he started--about 7-years-old, I guess, who shows up "religiously" every Sunday morning because he is an usher who receives the offering. And at kid's choir, he doesn't sing, but my wife bought him a little drum from a garage sell...and he watches my brother drumming and hammers away--and he's not half bad!

I have had to verbally "spank" those kids a number of times. But because it is done in true love--I mess up in a million different ways, I'm sure; but I do know that I love those kids--they keep right on coming back. Maybe it's because it's better than anything going on at home, but either way, we believe the Lord is touching them.

YES the correcting of the kids is a necessity. And since I can speak from experience of seeing them only a couple of times, I think you and your family have done marvelous. I loved those kids, what a great audience.

I am sure (from my observation in the last 20-25 years) the correcting of adult members (treating them as children) does not work.

I really believe it did work for some pastors 50-60 years ago due to the respect then of pastors.

JMO
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/