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 Packin' Parsons, What Would You Recommend? |
Quiet Wyatt |
What would you say would be the best all-around handgun to purchase for concealed carry, and why? (Anybody can respond to this a question if they have something helpful to say. I just thought "Packin' Parsons" was a catchy title).
Thanks!
QW |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12813
6/3/17 5:36 pm
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| Re: Packin' Parsons, What Would You Recommend? |
skinnybishop |
| Quiet Wyatt wrote: | What would you say would be the best all-around handgun to purchase for concealed carry, and why? (Anybody can respond to this a question if they have something helpful to say. I just thought "Packin' Parsons" was a catchy title).
Thanks!
QW |
Smith and Wesson 642 or 442 Airweight. snub nosed, 5 shot, hammerless revolver. 38 special. Easy to conceal. Nothing to "fumble" with in an emergency. Just point and pull the trigger.
Simple. Safe. High quality. Effective.
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Eddie Wiggins |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1054
6/3/17 8:41 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
Smith Wesson M&P Shield, 45 ACP
This is the #1 conceal carry pistol in the nation.
An, yeppers, OTCP's got one. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
6/3/17 10:32 pm
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| Zondervan makes some ... |
Mat |
Zondervan makes some handy size Bibles that a preacher can conceal. Other than that, I would not carry a pistol as a Pastor. I have served in the intercity of LA (Paramount, Compton, Norwalk, North Long Beach, etc) and Phoenix (in west Phoenix, near I-17) and never carried. I'm not called to shoot someone, called to "save' someone. We Christians sure do know our guns.
Mat |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1988
6/4/17 7:33 am
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Quiet Wyatt |
As a former pacifist myself, I respect that position still, even though I don't agree with it any longer. I am certainly not going out itching for a fight, nor am I a man of violence who would ever wish to violate the rights of others.
In my view, defending the well-being of women, children and one's neighbor against wicked people is not only a right but is in fact a moral duty, and I should like to be better able to do my duty should the occasion arise. May the God of peace soon crush Satan under our feet.
QW |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12813
6/4/17 9:39 am
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| Quiet Wyatt wrote: |
In my view, defending the well-being of women, children and one's neighbor against wicked people is not only a right but is in fact a moral duty, and I should like to be better able to do my duty should the occasion arise. May the God of peace soon crush Satan under our feet.
QW |
AMEN! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
6/4/17 12:50 pm
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| Re: Zondervan makes some ... |
Old Time Country Preacher |
| Mat wrote: | Zondervan makes some handy size Bibles that a preacher can conceal. Other than that, I would not carry a pistol as a Pastor. I have served in the intercity of LA (Paramount, Compton, Norwalk, North Long Beach, etc) and Phoenix (in west Phoenix, near I-17) and never carried. I'm not called to shoot someone, called to "save' someone. We Christians sure do know our guns.
Mat |
Mat, son, you could always throw one a Homer's aluminum foil crowns at a intruder an cut em up real good.  |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
6/4/17 12:53 pm
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| A paintball gun--seriously |
Aaron Scott |
A paintball gun can be revved up (air pressure) to LITERALLY go faster than the speed of light!
OK, not literally, but I one time hit in the top of the head by a paintball...and I saw stars (and that was under conditions where the pressure could not be set higher than a "safe" level).
Further, a paintball gun with a large hopper can basically fire as fast and furiously as you can pull the trigger. If you had to fire a real gun in church, a miss could spell tragedy for someone. But while a paintball could, technically, kill or blind you, the chances are fairly remote (especially if you have your church all wear safety goggles).
But the fact that you can fire, fire, fire, fire, fire, fire, fire, fire, fire, fire, fire...and keep on until you run out (perhaps two hundred or more rounds)...would make it virtually impossible for anyone to stand up and fire back with any precision. And the paint would allow you to quickly adjust your aim as you need to.
Now, I'm not saying having a gun is best for church...but if you feel to do it, then consider a paintball gun. You don't have to worry about open carry, etc.
In fact, with the exception of taking on, say, a grizzly, I would even feel fairly safe with a paintball gun in the woods. It just can hit and hit HARD...over and over and over. A wildcat is not going to keep coming if you are nailing it over and over. Besides, even if you had a real gun, you DO have to hit the thing before it stops, most of the time.
Just a thought. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6039
6/4/17 4:39 pm
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| Re: Zondervan makes some ... |
Mat |
| Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | Mat wrote: | Zondervan makes some handy size Bibles that a preacher can conceal. Other than that, I would not carry a pistol as a Pastor. I have served in the intercity of LA (Paramount, Compton, Norwalk, North Long Beach, etc) and Phoenix (in west Phoenix, near I-17) and never carried. I'm not called to shoot someone, called to "save' someone. We Christians sure do know our guns.
Mat |
Mat, son, you could always throw one a Homer's aluminum foil crowns at a intruder an cut em up real good. |
Homer served in the army during WWI in France. I believe he was a sergeant when the war was over. He experienced real war and death.
I did not leave the states when I was in the Corps, but I did experience the struggles of being a pastor in the intercity. I have worked along side law enforcement, but I was not there to be another cop. I'm there to be a pastor.
Mat |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1988
6/4/17 7:00 pm
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| Re: Zondervan makes some ... |
Old Time Country Preacher |
| Mat wrote: |
Homer served in the army during WWI in France. I believe he was a sergeant when the war was over. He experienced real war and death. |
I have nothin but respect for Homer's military service. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
6/4/17 8:20 pm
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| Packing heat? |
FLRon |
At the AG church I attended up north, several of the men had their CCW permits so there were always a few on hand in case they were needed. And I do believe in today's society that they are needed.
_________________
“Hell will be filled with people that didn’t cuss, didn’t drink, and may even have been baptized. Why? Because none of those things makes someone a Christian.”
Voddie Baucham |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 782
6/5/17 2:14 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
It's funny that some apparently assumed I meant to carry concealed while preaching. I primarily had thought about carrying just in general. I imagine I would have my gun with me at church, but was thinking I'd most likely keep it in my briefcase during worship services.
Last edited by Quiet Wyatt on 6/5/17 5:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12813
6/5/17 2:31 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
| ,,, |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12813
6/5/17 5:15 pm
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| Re: Zondervan makes some ... |
skinnybishop |
| Mat wrote: | | Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | Mat wrote: | Zondervan makes some handy size Bibles that a preacher can conceal. Other than that, I would not carry a pistol as a Pastor. I have served in the intercity of LA (Paramount, Compton, Norwalk, North Long Beach, etc) and Phoenix (in west Phoenix, near I-17) and never carried. I'm not called to shoot someone, called to "save' someone. We Christians sure do know our guns.
Mat |
Mat, son, you could always throw one a Homer's aluminum foil crowns at a intruder an cut em up real good. :wink: |
Homer served in the army during WWI in France. I believe he was a sergeant when the war was over. He experienced real war and death.
I did not leave the states when I was in the Corps, but I did experience the struggles of being a pastor in the intercity. I have worked along side law enforcement, but I was not there to be another cop. I'm there to be a pastor.
Mat |
Respectfully, I don't think most muggers are concerned with the calling on your life.
A thought on this matter. Isn't a pastor a shepherd? What did a shepherd do when a predator came around? Were they not equipped to defend the flock against different kinds of attacks?
I have no desire to shoot anyone. But I feel that I have a responsibility to be prepared to defend my wife and children.
_________________
Eddie Wiggins |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1054
6/5/17 10:04 pm
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| Re: Zondervan makes some ... |
Mat |
| skinnybishop wrote: | | Mat wrote: | | Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | Mat wrote: | Zondervan makes some handy size Bibles that a preacher can conceal. Other than that, I would not carry a pistol as a Pastor. I have served in the intercity of LA (Paramount, Compton, Norwalk, North Long Beach, etc) and Phoenix (in west Phoenix, near I-17) and never carried. I'm not called to shoot someone, called to "save' someone. We Christians sure do know our guns.
Mat |
Mat, son, you could always throw one a Homer's aluminum foil crowns at a intruder an cut em up real good. |
Homer served in the army during WWI in France. I believe he was a sergeant when the war was over. He experienced real war and death.
I did not leave the states when I was in the Corps, but I did experience the struggles of being a pastor in the intercity. I have worked along side law enforcement, but I was not there to be another cop. I'm there to be a pastor.
Mat |
Respectfully, I don't think most muggers are concerned with the calling on your life.
A thought on this matter. Isn't a pastor a shepherd? What did a shepherd do when a predator came around? Were they not equipped to defend the flock against different kinds of attacks?
I have no desire to shoot anyone. But I feel that I have a responsibility to be prepared to defend my wife and children. |
Again, when I have ministered in "dangerous" areas of cities, including working with gang members, I'm there to minister, not to join in a shoot out. You don't take what you cannot afford to loss to the "hood" or the barrio. As to being armed in church. If your guys with the guns are in the back and the "bad guy" storms the pulpit, who do you think will be in the line of fire when these "non-professions" let loose with their automatics (even the pros often don't stop until the mag is empty)? If you are in the pulpit and pull you pistol to shoot someone coming at you, or if they are in the middle of the congregation, how many members are you willing to wound (or kill) to save your life?
The fact is, if someone comes in and crates a disturbance in church, but does not produce a weapon, if you, or your security team touch them in an effort to control them, your church better have a great lawyer. If that happens, call the police, have your ushers stand around the person (but do not try to restrain them) and have the praise team sing loud until the proper authorities arrive. If that person assaults you or someone else, you can defend yourself, but shouting and shoving are not grounds to "shoot them down like a dog". Doing that will get you a prison ministry from the inside.
By the way, I did not realize how many "muggings" and church attacks are taking place in these same towns that the preachers need to be armed.
Mat
PS When I was in the west side neighborhoods of Phoenix, AZ, our church property was surrounded by a large iron fence (with gates of course) and well lit on the outside and parking lot (you do not leave lights on inside, because it helps the thief once he get in). We had numbered keys and security cameras, which provide some great pictures of thieves and drunks, which were often the same. The main defense, perhaps, was the alarm system on the doors and windows, and motion detectors in the building. Each of us had a code, so we knew who had been in and out (in case the alarm was not turned on), and the alarm would alert the company which would begin calling down the list of leaders, I was a couple down on the last as pastor. If there was not response from us, or if they called and we said we will meet the police in the parking lot, I never went armed to meet the police. I did not try to police our building myself and when we entered, the police took the lead and told me when it was safe. By then the alarm bells had scared away the intruder, so the police and I would reviewed the video from the cameras to see what happened. Again, it could be funny stuff, but if you I shot dead in the parking lot because the police just saw a man with a gun, there is nothing funny about that. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1988
6/6/17 8:16 am
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Quiet Wyatt |
I agree that trying to shoot an (armed) assailant in a congregation would be very problematic with regard to the safety of the congregants. I would also say that shooting an unarmed man just for causing a commotion would make absolutely no sense. I would hope that if our congregation were attacked by someone without a gun (maybe a knife for instance), that men in the congregation would be able to stop him without killing him, but a knife is a deadly weapon, as we all know, and so it would not necessarily be a disproportionate escalation to shoot a knife-wielding attacker.
I should also say that from my perspective, my desire and motivation is definitely not self-defense as such (to save my life, as you said), but is instead defense of others. I don't think police officers are primarily motivated by concerns of self-defense, either. I definitely believe a God-fearing, neighbor-loving Christian can righteously serve God and fellow man as a police officer, using proportionate force to stop crime, up to and including deadly force if necessary.
Last edited by Quiet Wyatt on 6/6/17 11:01 am; edited 1 time in total |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12813
6/6/17 10:13 am
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| Re: Zondervan makes some ... |
caseyleejones |
| Mat wrote: | Zondervan makes some handy size Bibles that a preacher can conceal. Other than that, I would not carry a pistol as a Pastor. I have served in the intercity of LA (Paramount, Compton, Norwalk, North Long Beach, etc) and Phoenix (in west Phoenix, near I-17) and never carried. I'm not called to shoot someone, called to "save' someone. We Christians sure do know our guns.
Mat |
Who said anything about being called to shoot someone? I carry, but more so out of those around me. If by myself, I can pretty much get out of many situations. I assume if someone comes and slaps you or your family, you will just stand there and "save" the aggressor? |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11796
6/6/17 10:51 am
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| Re: Zondervan makes some ... |
skinnybishop |
| Mat wrote: | | skinnybishop wrote: | | Mat wrote: | | Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | Mat wrote: | Zondervan makes some handy size Bibles that a preacher can conceal. Other than that, I would not carry a pistol as a Pastor. I have served in the intercity of LA (Paramount, Compton, Norwalk, North Long Beach, etc) and Phoenix (in west Phoenix, near I-17) and never carried. I'm not called to shoot someone, called to "save' someone. We Christians sure do know our guns.
Mat |
Mat, son, you could always throw one a Homer's aluminum foil crowns at a intruder an cut em up real good. :wink: |
Homer served in the army during WWI in France. I believe he was a sergeant when the war was over. He experienced real war and death.
I did not leave the states when I was in the Corps, but I did experience the struggles of being a pastor in the intercity. I have worked along side law enforcement, but I was not there to be another cop. I'm there to be a pastor.
Mat |
Respectfully, I don't think most muggers are concerned with the calling on your life.
A thought on this matter. Isn't a pastor a shepherd? What did a shepherd do when a predator came around? Were they not equipped to defend the flock against different kinds of attacks?
I have no desire to shoot anyone. But I feel that I have a responsibility to be prepared to defend my wife and children. |
Again, when I have ministered in "dangerous" areas of cities, including working with gang members, I'm there to minister, not to join in a shoot out. You don't take what you cannot afford to loss to the "hood" or the barrio. As to being armed in church. If your guys with the guns are in the back and the "bad guy" storms the pulpit, who do you think will be in the line of fire when these "non-professions" let loose with their automatics (even the pros often don't stop until the mag is empty)? If you are in the pulpit and pull you pistol to shoot someone coming at you, or if they are in the middle of the congregation, how many members are you willing to wound (or kill) to save your life?
The fact is, if someone comes in and crates a disturbance in church, but does not produce a weapon, if you, or your security team touch them in an effort to control them, your church better have a great lawyer. If that happens, call the police, have your ushers stand around the person (but do not try to restrain them) and have the praise team sing loud until the proper authorities arrive. If that person assaults you or someone else, you can defend yourself, but shouting and shoving are not grounds to "shoot them down like a dog". Doing that will get you a prison ministry from the inside.
By the way, I did not realize how many "muggings" and church attacks are taking place in these same towns that the preachers need to be armed.
Mat
PS When I was in the west side neighborhoods of Phoenix, AZ, our church property was surrounded by a large iron fence (with gates of course) and well lit on the outside and parking lot (you do not leave lights on inside, because it helps the thief once he get in). We had numbered keys and security cameras, which provide some great pictures of thieves and drunks, which were often the same. The main defense, perhaps, was the alarm system on the doors and windows, and motion detectors in the building. Each of us had a code, so we knew who had been in and out (in case the alarm was not turned on), and the alarm would alert the company which would begin calling down the list of leaders, I was a couple down on the last as pastor. If there was not response from us, or if they called and we said we will meet the police in the parking lot, I never went armed to meet the police. I did not try to police our building myself and when we entered, the police took the lead and told me when it was safe. By then the alarm bells had scared away the intruder, so the police and I would reviewed the video from the cameras to see what happened. Again, it could be funny stuff, but if you I shot dead in the parking lot because the police just saw a man with a gun, there is nothing funny about that. |
I don't think I mentioned carrying in the pulpit, or shootouts in church. I am talking about being prepared to defend myself our my family.
Also, you are implying that its unnecessary to carry if your town doesn't have a lot of incidents. C'mon man.....
Just because there haven't been issues, that doesn't mean there won't be issues. My hometown of Milledgeville is a prime example. 5 years ago there was little crime. In fact it used to be almost 0. Not the case now. Just because it has been safe in the past, doesn't mean its safe now.
Also...even if people live in low crime areas....You know people do travel. We don't have have a lot of violent crime in Royston, GA. But Atlanta has its share. I travel there. Macon is a rough place. I travel there. Crime in Anderson, SC is increasing. I travel there. Athens, GA has a panhandler seemingly on every corner. I travel there twice a week. Female members of our staff have been confronted, rather aggressively, by panhandlers there. How do you know if the approaching panhandler is going to attack or not? You don't.
_________________
Eddie Wiggins |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1054
6/6/17 2:36 pm
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| Glock 19 gen 4 |
wayne |
I am a Pastor and I have a CDWL permit. Several of our members have their CDWL in fact we have had several classes for people to get their permit.
In my younger days, I would go toe to toe with anyone but I am getting older. I have a daughter who has already been targeted by an on-line predator - who I had to threaten, my dad and mom have been in situations where they could not defend themselves, there is violence all around us.....this is why I carry and advise others to carry as well. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1274
6/9/17 10:57 am
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