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 Preachers, politics and death |
Cojak |
I do not remember studying in history that on 9 April 1945 - Lutheran Pastor and Theologian Dietrich Bonhöffer was Hung for his part in the planned assassination of Adolf Hitler in 1944.
He is quoted as saying, "When Christ calls he says come and die."
When I read this on the anniversary of his hanging I thought, how many of us would go so far as to take part in an assassination, and do you think it is a call of God to do so? Even in the apparent EVIL of Adolf?
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Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
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Posts: 24285
4/10/17 9:30 am
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c6thplayer1 |
The bible is full of people being killed approved by God , Deuteronomy 32.39-42 , Numbers 16.35, 1 Samuel 18.25-28, Kings 15:5,
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Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6385
4/10/17 11:18 am
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UncleJD |
| I think its necessary to dig a little deeper and learn about Bonhoffer's long struggle with his belief in pacifism and how he struggled with that against what he was seeing as the outright murder of Jews in his own country. Its a very interesting journey that he made and though it didn't work out, I strongly believe that he made the right decision even at the cost of his own life. He could have been free and I think he knew it wouldn't work but eventually his beliefs changed and he could no longer stand on the sidelines, believing that inaction made him complicit. |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3147
4/10/17 12:52 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
| Bonhoeffer is one of my favorites. The Cost of Discipleship should be required reading for all who call themselves Christian. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12817
4/10/17 3:09 pm
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| Cojak...a thought |
Aaron Scott |
It would be just as appropriate (perhaps far more appropriate) to assassinate Hitler...as it would be to fight the Nazis.
It has always been in the interests of national leaders to act like the assassination of national leaders is really, really, really bad...while the killing of innocents is, well, just collateral damage.
As someone put it: You can kill the spider...or you can try to get rid of the web.
If it would have been wrong to kill Hitler, how much MORE wrong would it be to kill otherwise good men who, perhaps sincere Christians, were called into the service of their country (and perhaps even forced to fight)?
If it is ever God's will for us to go to war, it is, it seems certain, equally His will that we take out those that brought on the war. Make any sense? |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6042
4/11/17 11:45 am
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| Re: Cojak...a thought |
UncleJD |
| Aaron Scott wrote: |
It has always been in the interests of national leaders to act like the assassination of national leaders is really, really, really bad...while the killing of innocents is, well, just collateral damage. |
This is so true, right up their with "divine right" which was bad leadership's excuse for doing whatever they wanted at everyone's expense. Convenient reasoning to say the least. I'd go further and say that those in other leadership positions, especially those in the military, have the responsibility to defend their nations from these kind of despots. I remember the Valkarie story as one of the few military attempts during the Nazi regime. There should have been others. Its why the "just following orders" excuse was disallowed at the Nuremberg trials.
The Christian Pacifism movements like the annabaptists and others (including Bonhoffer's own) are problematic for me for this and other reasons. I believe that peace should always be the goal for Christians, but laying down for a regime that will destroy you and all of your loved ones and even your own country, is NOT the path to peace. |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3147
4/11/17 12:36 pm
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| Re: Cojak...a thought |
Cojak |
| Aaron Scott wrote: | It would be just as appropriate (perhaps far more appropriate) to assassinate Hitler...as it would be to fight the Nazis.
It has always been in the interests of national leaders to act like the assassination of national leaders is really, really, really bad...while the killing of innocents is, well, just collateral damage.
As someone put it: You can kill the spider...or you can try to get rid of the web.
If it would have been wrong to kill Hitler, how much MORE wrong would it be to kill otherwise good men who, perhaps sincere Christians, were called into the service of their country (and perhaps even forced to fight)?
If it is ever God's will for us to go to war, it is, it seems certain, equally His will that we take out those that brought on the war. Make any sense? |
Over the life of the internet, I have read of evil men whose lives (by all reasonable thoughts) should be extinguished. Long after my military time, I remember thinking:BUSH is right we need to take Saddam out! I agreed. Now in retrospect, I am not sure it was a great idea. Libya the same. Now we are looking at Syria?
In Dietrich Bonhöffer's situation, it was His country and he was working with dedicated men in His country. He and his cohorts wanted to save their country. I think it was a noble thing.
I think I was more thinking more of Christian men in the USA, if and I donot expect it, but if one of our presidents were to 'Go Postal' and start allowing 'police murders' of any one group, yes even Muslims. When would Christians draw the line, and join in an attempt to assassinate?
I already hear rumblings of Trump thinks he is King! I read for 8 years Obama was going to declare martial law and become a dictator!
All that is/was baloney. (IMO) BUT what if? Would we be strong enough to put our lives on the line?
I was not saying Dietrich Bonhöffer and his group was wrong, I wish they had been successful. But would the attempt have worked for the better or would Bonhöffer's friends stayed the course but with more logical military maneuvering? Who knows\?
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
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Posts: 24285
4/11/17 3:53 pm
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