Actscelerate.com Forum Index Actscelerate.com
Open Any Time -- Day or Night
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
r/Actscelerate

Dangerous New Trend: COG Pastors selecting their own successor
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
 
   Actscelerate.com Forum Index -> Acts-Celerate Post new topic   Reply to topic
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Message Author
Post Dangerous New Trend: COG Pastors selecting their own successor MI6
There is a Dangerous New Trend in the Church of God where Pastors are selecting their own successor. This violates the Minutes of the General Assembly and prevents the State Overseer or local congregation from having a voice on the matter.

Is this a small event in our COG history or a sign of things to come ?
Friendly Face
Posts: 140
4/2/17 4:18 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Re: Dangerous New Trend: COG Pastors selecting their own successor Resident Skeptic
MI6 wrote:
There is a Dangerous New Trend in the Church of God where Pastors are selecting their own successor. This violates the Minutes of the General Assembly and prevents the State Overseer or local congregation from having a voice on the matter.

Is this a small event in our COG history or a sign of things to come ?



I was not aware of this, but I agree this is a frightening trend. This could be considered the evil twin of another trend I've seen in denominations whose minutes and by-laws call for each congregation to have a strong deacon board. While I have greatly sympathized in the past with pastors who have had to deal with unreasonable boards, in latter years I've noticed the tide turning. Now it seems more common for a controlling pastor to find a way to drive from the board those deacons that might question their agenda and see to it they are replaced with more compliant board members. This trend weakens a very important system of checks and balances. If what you are saying is true, then the trend towards a pastoral totalitarianism is growing, such a what dominates much of the UPCI.
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI


Last edited by Resident Skeptic on 4/2/17 7:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
4/2/17 4:44 pm


View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Reply with quote
Post MI6 Change Agent
Pastors choosing their own successors cannot happen in the COG unless for some reason the COG does not have deeded control of the building and property. This has been the case in some COG's.

If the COG owns building and lands both (pastor and successor) will be gone shortly. I recently posted about some of the sweet deals some churches have where they retain their property and are still COG.
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1449
4/2/17 7:18 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Charles Page
true Mitch Maloney picked his successor
The COG picked Steve Lowery to go to National COG
_________________
Sanctification is subsequent to the new birth
Friendly Face
Posts: 346
4/2/17 7:39 pm


View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Reply with quote
Post Carolyn Smith
Charles Page wrote:
true Mitch Maloney picked his successor
The COG picked Steve Lowery to go to National COG


Steve was already an associate pastor at National at the time. Not to mention, it made sense.
_________________
"More of Him...less of me."
http://twitter.com/camiracle77
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=691241499&ref=name
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5904
4/2/17 9:00 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Carolyn Smith
I don't really see this as a dangerous thing. The pastor is not really "selecting" his successor, since that can only be done by the AB. But I think it makes sense to allow the pastor's input, especially if he is a long time pastor or started the church. If a pastor is retiring, I'm sure he would have a lot more peace about that if he knew he was leaving in the church in capable hands, with someone who has a similar vision that could take up the reins and run with it.

In the end it is the AB's decision since he is the only one that can appoint pastors, correct?
_________________
"More of Him...less of me."
http://twitter.com/camiracle77
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=691241499&ref=name
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5904
4/2/17 9:08 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Old Time Country Preacher
Carolyn Smith wrote:
Steve was already an associate pastor at National at the time. Not to mention, it made sense.



Especially since Copeland has already prophesied a "10-fold almost immediate increase," then another 10-fold increase later on.
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15559
4/2/17 10:00 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Carolyn Smith
Old Time Country Preacher wrote:
Carolyn Smith wrote:
Steve was already an associate pastor at National at the time. Not to mention, it made sense.



Especially since Copeland has already prophesied a "10-fold almost immediate increase," then another 10-fold increase later on.


Of course! Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

And of course, that happened way after Steve became pastor!
_________________
"More of Him...less of me."
http://twitter.com/camiracle77
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=691241499&ref=name
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5904
4/2/17 10:26 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Bro Bob
As to the original statement in this post, it is not possible without the State Overseer attaching his approval to it, all pastoral appointments are made by the State Overseer.

As to the changes in how this actually works in the CoG, in many instances it would be good if it were the common practice, so long as the church body was given a voice, and the AB did not have a valid doubt about the next guy.

There used to be a pastoral preference vote taken every 2 years at every church: Keep him or change? Pastors hated it. It went to 4 years. People they hadn't seen in 3 1/2 years would show up on the day of the vote. Other pastors with friends in that church would let them know that if there WERE a change, they would gladly offer themselves. They hated it worse than before. Now, some member has to go to the AB and request a vote be taken where he will be asked if he has talked to anyone else about it. (Yes: Sowing discord. No: Think highly of yourself don't you?)

Pastors are staying longer. People not happy with the new one no longer wait for the next, they go somewhere else, maybe another CoG, maybe not. Visitors that like the new pastor stay. The church then, over time, becomes much more tuned in with the man, rather than the organization. Pastors have a strong sense of this. Churches using various methods to remove evidence that they ARE CoG without exception go that way under the direction of such pastoral leadership.

I am saying there are pros and cons to ANY method.

But in a system where a man has stayed a long time, and where a vast majority of the regular attenders have true confidence in him, enough to overlook often glaring faults for the glaring benefits, then it makes a lot of sense for that man to give some thought to who would be best to replace him should the time actually have come for him to vacate the job.

He would know far more about this than the AB who came at the last assembly. He would care far more for those people he is leaving than would an AB they do not know.
Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
Posts: 3945
4/3/17 8:26 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post I Think the Overseer Route is Best FG Minister
The Overseer lives several hours away and has probably never been to the church and doesn't know the people, but he is far more qualified to present candidates than the outgoing pastor. The Overseer knows what they need; the style of preaching, style of administration, and ministry priorities of the congregation. He has probably already heard from the disgruntled "clerk" who can guide him as to what the congregation needs and wants.

Just the idea that the outgoing pastor would groom his successor for 12 months and gradually introduce him to the congregation where he is preaching half of the time when the outgoing pastor leaves is preposterous. Churches do not work well with seamless transitions; abrupt changes are best. The overseer has men to move who are in trouble where they are, and every local congregation should take whoever he sends. Blind obedience to wise overseers has worked for years, why stop now?
Acts-celerater
Posts: 872
4/3/17 8:46 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Da Sheik
Nicely done FGM! Laughing Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1860
4/3/17 10:17 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Bro Bob
I don't know you FG, in my head I have it that I have rather liked reading your posts. I really don't want to offend you, but I have honestly never read anything not attached to a cowbell that was as irrational as that response.

Quote:
The Overseer lives several hours away and has probably never been to the church and doesn't know the people, but he is far more qualified to present candidates than the outgoing pastor.

An overseer called my dad, "Bro Hodo, I have to go to _______ CoG where you used to pastor. The District overseer says the men were hard on him and for me to expect trouble. He suggested I take you with me."

Dad, who was now retired, said, "No, I'm not going with you. Just go talk to them, it will go fine. Call me on your way home."

He went, they met, and on his way home he called my dad. "Bro Hodo, you were right. They seemed to be good men, and the meeting couldn't have gone better." Dad said, "Brother, you need to get information and counsel from someone other than preachers."


Quote:
The Overseer knows what they need;

HOW???

Quote:
the style of preaching,

Seriously?

Quote:
style of administration,

other than that laid out in the MINUTES???

Quote:
and ministry priorities of the congregation.

I don't even know what that phrase means

Quote:
He has probably already heard from the disgruntled "clerk" who can guide him as to what the congregation needs and wants.

The ones who work for free and support the church with money they earned are always the 'disgruntled' one's aren't they?

Quote:
Just the idea that the outgoing pastor would groom his successor for 12 months and gradually introduce him to the congregation where he is preaching half of the time when the outgoing pastor leaves is preposterous.

Now we agree. 12 months isn't nearly long enough to train the next King.

Quote:
Churches do not work well with seamless transitions; abrupt changes are best.

I don't know what to say. Solomon followed by Rehoboam. That kind of abrupt?

Quote:
The overseer has men to move who are in trouble where they are, and every local congregation should take whoever he sends. Blind obedience to wise overseers has worked for years, why stop now?

Ok. You got me. There is no rule that says an April fools joke HAS to be on April 1st. Good one. You really had me going for a minute there.
Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
Posts: 3945
4/3/17 10:45 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Re: I Think the Overseer Route is Best Resident Skeptic
FG Minister wrote:
The Overseer lives several hours away and has probably never been to the church and doesn't know the people, but he is far more qualified to present candidates than the outgoing pastor. The Overseer knows what they need; the style of preaching, style of administration, and ministry priorities of the congregation. He has probably already heard from the disgruntled "clerk" who can guide him as to what the congregation needs and wants.

Just the idea that the outgoing pastor would groom his successor for 12 months and gradually introduce him to the congregation where he is preaching half of the time when the outgoing pastor leaves is preposterous. Churches do not work well with seamless transitions; abrupt changes are best. The overseer has men to move who are in trouble where they are, and every local congregation should take whoever he sends. Blind obedience to wise overseers has worked for years, why stop now?


There is much truth in what you say. I have often thought it odd that pastors are not groomed right from the congregation where they attend as members. But even such a system as this should have input and oversight from the deacons and members to prevent one king from choosing his successor.
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
4/3/17 10:47 am


View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Reply with quote
Post Da Sheik
Guys, FM minister was being sarcastic Cool Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1860
4/3/17 11:25 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Sarcasm Folks FG Minister
I don't believe a thing I said in my original post.

I am a strong believer in an 18-month succession plan where the Senior Pastor and his successor work side by side. When the Senior Pastor retires, the other guy takes over. It's beautiful. He's not new; he knows the church and the people. The problem is the COG cannot use this system in very small churches, and won't give up power to allow it to happen in churches averaging 200 or more. Sure, the Overseer should have the right to approve the guy, but that should be done when he is hired 18 months earlier as Associate Pastor - not upon the retirement of the of the Senior Pastor. Churches deserve continuity of ministry. Too many guys come in from Lord knows where, and they want to change everything the first year. Churches need continuity and gradual change.
Acts-celerater
Posts: 872
4/3/17 11:26 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Bro Bob
Like I said, you had me at first. I had already begun my reply when I realized I had been had.

You don't want to know why I bit. I have seen a few things, like everybody here has seen a few things.

Back on topic for just a second, there are about 400 CoGs in Alabama. If there were a parallel universe where we could test it, my guess is that the old system was better for starting new churches and growing the kingdom that way. But the current trend of pastors staying longer would produce larger individual churches.

The biggest advantage of what we call 'larger churches', that is 300-400 as a minimum, is that a church that size and up can offer a lot more to families and very diverse communities. It also requires a lot more paid staff, and a lot more volunteer staff. And that church will rarely just keep moving ahead when there is a change at lead pastor.
Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
Posts: 3945
4/3/17 11:59 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Da Sheik
I think it all depends on the situation. Churches in steep decline, financial difficulties, and stark divisions likely would not benefit from current pastor choosing successor. Said pastor probably would have no interest in choosing a successor anyway because he's too busy packing and ready to leave town.

In churches that are healthy doctrinally, financially, administratively, continuity seems to make sense. Especially when the pastor is retiring and is able to groom someone with a similar heart and vision for the church and community at large.
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1860
4/3/17 12:21 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post UncleJD
delete

Last edited by UncleJD on 4/3/17 1:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3137
4/3/17 12:29 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post SouthFloridaman
—.

Last edited by SouthFloridaman on 3/26/18 10:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
Friendly Face
Posts: 358
4/3/17 12:37 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post auburntigerpastor
///

Last edited by auburntigerpastor on 3/26/18 11:13 pm; edited 2 times in total
New Member
Posts: 23
4/3/17 1:01 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Display posts from previous:   
Actscelerate.com Forum Index -> Acts-Celerate Post new topic   Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Acts-celerate Terms of Use | Acts-celerate Policy
Contact the Administrator.


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group :: Spelling by SpellingCow.