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bonnie knox |
| Quote: | | What is a good articulated reason for today? |
I'll be honest that it is a lot easier to make a case against promiscuity than it is against premarital sex for a committed couple, and I think, given the way the state is going, e.g. legalizing gay marriage, the church is going to have to consider whether having the state's approval is what constitutes marriage. I mean, what if a young couple decides to do what Isaac did--take the woman into his mother's tent and she became his wife. I'm being a little tongue-in-cheek there, but I do want to provoke some thought.
I think the best approach is to articulate that God designed sex to be within the confines of an exclusive and lifelong commitment of a man and a woman. Sexual purity has to address pornography and lust as well as premarital or extramarital sex, and I think a lot of that comes with respecting other people as full humans and not objects to be exploited or taken advantage of--the golden rule, in other words. Putting a premium on a woman (or a man) being a virgin at marriage cannot be allowed to make women (or men) who were sexually molested feel like damaged goods.
The best way to articulate something is to practice what you preach. I think people with a Christian worldview have to recognize that they may be modeling a behavior that is not going to catch on in the wider culture we live in. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
3/27/17 10:11 am
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Cojak |
| bonnie knox wrote: | | Quote: | | What is a good articulated reason for today? |
... Putting a premium on a woman (or a man) being a virgin at marriage cannot be allowed to make women (or men) who were sexually molested feel like damaged goods.
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Link has opened a subject that is dear to MOST Christians today. I considered my self fortunate my wife and I were both (ignorant of sexual facts) but virgin at marriage. That point above IS a big problem in our world. Today CHILDREN are sexual active. They are completely ignorant of future problems. To many kids it is actually 'recreational sex'. mainly because they know no better.
I really don't know how to get where I am going with this, but Bonnie's statement above should cause 'a pause for thought'.
I have enjoyed reading and commenting here, but the subject is above an old man's paygrade (I think too much). Hoping for more clarification on input.  
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Posts: 24277
3/27/17 10:50 am
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Link |
Bonnie,
That's a serious issue for those who have been molested, and the topic needs to be handled with care and sensitivity.
On the other hand it is important for virginity to be valued and treasured. The Old Testament presents female virginity as something valuable. Priests could only marry virgin Israelites or widows of other priests. There was a bride price for virgins, and a woman married off as a virgin who'd lost her virginity could be put to death. Also, if single people never fornicate that first time, they aren't going to fornicate at all.
I agree that porn and lust have to be addressed. I have also heard of children who have been exposed to porn who have molested other children.
Porn is also a huge problem. I don't usually watch comedians, but I have seen a few clips on YouTube or on TV, and I've seen comedians talking about aspects of porn and expecting their audience to know what they are talking about. It seems like everyone in the audience is familiar with whatever aspect of porn they are talking about. When Sarah Palin ran for VP, I saw a clip where someone compared her to a librarian in porn. Apparently, the looked like the female character in some genre of porn. Audiences act like they are familiar with it. It's really sad that viewing porn is that common. When I was a kid, if a kid wanted to see porn, he either had to have the dirty movie channels at home and have the code for the box or talk an adult in the convenience store into selling him the dirty magazine behind the counter. Now, it's really easy to access, at least for people in the US.
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Link |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11849
3/27/17 1:19 pm
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bonnie knox |
| Quote: | | On the other hand it is important for virginity to be valued and treasured. The Old Testament presents female virginity as something valuable. Priests could only marry virgin Israelites or widows of other priests. There was a bride price for virgins, and a woman married off as a virgin who'd lost her virginity could be put to death. |
Link, there is a whole other issue with valuing female virginity in patriarchal societies where land is inherited. A lot of the regulations seem to be aimed at making sure that no other man's offspring is getting your land (or in the case of the priests, a priestly inheritance).
This is not to minimize what scripture teaches about sexual purity, but if you are focused on Old Testament laws only, you might get the false impression that God somehow cares more about sexual purity in females than males. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
3/27/17 2:39 pm
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Link |
The Bible tells believers to abstain from fornication, which applies to males and females. And of course, the laws in the Torah about land are from God.
Virginity is valuable, and if it is lost through rape, including by molestation, that is something worth grieving over.
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Link |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11849
3/28/17 12:20 am
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bonnie knox |
| Quote: | | Virginity is valuable, and if it is lost through rape, including by molestation, that is something worth grieving over. |
What makes me sad when someone is raped or molested is that the person has been violated and hurt whether the person was a virgin or not. A married person who is not a virgin can be sexually pure. Being a virgin before marriage is only valuable inasmuch as it is the result of the person being sexually pure. It's not like a commodity on the auction block, "Here is a heifer that hasn't been plowed." |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
3/28/17 5:43 am
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bradfreeman |
Paul's approach to sexual purity was to give them something they needed to know -- so Paul says "do you not know" 3 times...and some clear direction.
1 Cor 6:12 All things are lawful for me, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be mastered by anything. 13 Food is for the stomach and the stomach is for food, but God will do away with both of them. Yet the body is not for immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord is for the body. 14 Now God has not only raised the Lord, but will also raise us up through His power. 15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take away the members of Christ and make them members of a prostitute? May it never be! 16 Or do you not know that the one who joins himself to a prostitute is one body with her? For He says, “The two shall become one flesh.” 17 But the one who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 18 Flee immorality. Every other sin that a man commits is outside the body, but the immoral man sins against his own body. 19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? 20 For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.
He wanted them to "know" some things:
1. Their bodies are the members of Christ.
2. They are "one spirit" with Christ.
3. They are the temple of the Holy Spirit.
His approach was to reveal their identity and union with Christ as a foundation for some clear direction to stop sleeping with prostitutes.
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I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/ |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
3/28/17 12:43 pm
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Link |
| bonnie knox wrote: | | Quote: | | and some young people wouldn't know that couples they knew lived together a long time before tying the knot |
This statement demonstrates one of the big problems I think the church has had in communicating the sexual purity message. The church has been willing to play on ignorance or stats that could change. For example, I've heard preachers talk about feeling guilty as a reason not to engage in premarital sex, but when it's cultural acceptable, people might well feel no guilt. Lots of people have relied on the statistic that people are more likely to divorce if they cohabit before marriage, but the divorce rate is so high anyway, it is not going to seem like a good reason. |
What I had in mind was giving lots and lots of reasons. Some of them may stick with a given individual. and some may not. For believers, appealing to their desire to be conformed to the image of Christ, to do God's will, and to glorify God should be really strong reasons. The Bible teaches that it is God's will to abstain from fornication.
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I'll give you an example of a couple I know who have been married for about 20 years. The young woman has said she lived with the guy before marriage because she wanted to see if they could get along before making a commitment to marriage. Their family was insulted that her minister didn't want to perform their wedding because they were cohabitating. They got another minister to perform the wedding. The marriage of the minister who refused to perform the ceremony ended in divorce; the couple who were cohabitating are still married. |
The Teachman 1990 study that showed that virgins and women who had only slept with their husband had a lower chance of 'marital disruption' than those who had had multiple partners. I read a CBN article on an Arizona researcher who found some similar results recently. I found a more detailed article on the research, but I don't believe I have found the actual study.
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Link |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11849
3/28/17 7:52 pm
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| Men and Sex: The Reality |
Preacher777 |
The older I get the more I realize the value of praying and seeing which individuals God will have me disciple. I sometimes marvel as I skim read the theories, articles and books people write about the reasons men are not drawn to church. The answer is quite simple, SEX. I speak about guilt over what they are thinking and/or doing in regards to sexual immorality.
God showed me that the best use of my time is to meet 1 on 1 with men who are part if the church and outside the church rather than focusing on big men's events. Men are very quick to open up about their challenges with sexual immorality when we are real with them. Often it takes me sharing that if I watched 10-20 hours of sports a week or more, being around good looking sexy co-workers etc. instead of focusing on prayer and the Word my thoughts realm wouldn't be right either. Once men see we are real instead of them feeling like they are a dirty person around a pastor who has it all together they open up.
I can't change the world but it feels so good to explain to a man the value of being consistent and starting each day with a minimum of 10 minutes in prayer and the Word then building into more as we create great habits. Men with corporate America backgrounds are quick to understand short term goals to achieve a long term vision along with performance evaluations. The simplicity here is asking if they want to change and escape the guilt. If one wants to change, the obvious answer is for a person to evaluate how much time one spends looking at and doing things detrimental to the long term plan (sexual purity in thought and deed) versus doing the positive things such as meditating daily on Romans 6 and 8 to help one stay pure. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 434
3/30/17 6:51 am
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