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 Dake's views on the Trinity (L) |
Resident Skeptic |
| Quote: | | The historic Christian view of the Trinity — that God is one being constituted by three persons — is “foolish and unscriptural, to say the least,” says Dake.28 He states, it is a fallacy “that there is only one person or one being called God.”29 Dake says that the Trinity is three separate and distinct persons in one God; however, he defines person as “a rational being with bodily presence, soul passions, and spirit faculties.”30 In his view, person and being mean the same thing. He concludes, therefore, that the Trinity is three separate and distinct beings, each with a body, soul, and spirit: “What we mean by Divine Trinity is that there are three separate and distinct persons in the Godhead, each one having His own personal spirit body, personal soul, and personal spirit in the sense that each human being, angel, or any other being has his own body, soul and spirit.” |
But then the author of the article makes a statement that sounds as strange as those of Dake.....
| Quote: | | It is true that all three persons in the Trinity are one in purpose, but the historic Christian view is that “one in substance” means one in being (essence or nature). In other words, the Trinity is three persons (three whos) who are one being (one what). |
One "what".
http://www.equip.org/article/dakes-dangerous-doctrine/
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"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
3/16/17 9:47 am
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Nature Boy Florida |
Who knows, why dont you ask Dake?
I dont know that there are any dake proponents on Acts.
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3/16/17 12:00 pm
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c6thplayer1 |
| That was the first bible I ever bought. As far as the trinity , its to far above my head to debate. Lots of other scholars can do this. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6385
3/16/17 1:27 pm
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sheepdogandy |
Dake is wrong on several points.
The great weight of evidence in the Scriptures declare the Triune understanding of who God is.
Read John 17.
Joh 17:1 ¶ Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
4 "I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do.
5 "And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
6 ¶ "I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word.
7 "Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You.
8 "For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You; and they have believed that You sent Me.
9 "I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours.
10 "And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them.
11 ¶ "Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are.
12 "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.
13 "But now I come to You, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have My joy fulfilled in themselves.
14 "I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
15 "I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one.
16 "They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
17 ¶ "Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.
18 "As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.
19 "And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.
20 ¶ "I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;
21 "that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.
22 "And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
23 "I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.
24 ¶ "Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.
25 "O righteous Father! The world has not known You, but I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me.
26 "And I have declared to them Your name, and will declare it, that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them."
As Christians Bubba and I are commanded to be one.
It's a matter of context.
We will never be the same person.
_________________
Charles A. Hutchins
Senior Pastor SPWC
Congregational Church of God
www.spwc.church |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 7304
3/16/17 1:34 pm
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Resident Skeptic |
| sheepdogandy wrote: | Dake is wrong on several points.
The great weight of evidence in the Scriptures declare the Triune understanding of who God is.
Read John 17.
Joh 17:1 ¶ Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
4 "I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do.
5 "And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
6 ¶ "I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word.
7 "Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You.
8 "For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You; and they have believed that You sent Me.
9 "I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours.
10 "And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them.
11 ¶ "Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are.
12 "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.
13 "But now I come to You, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have My joy fulfilled in themselves.
14 "I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
15 "I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one.
16 "They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
17 ¶ "Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.
18 "As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.
19 "And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.
20 ¶ "I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;
21 "that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.
22 "And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
23 "I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.
24 ¶ "Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.
25 "O righteous Father! The world has not known You, but I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me.
26 "And I have declared to them Your name, and will declare it, that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them."
As Christians Bubba and I are commanded to be one.
It's a matter of context.
We will never be the same person. |
So you claim Dake is wrong, but say essentially the same thing he says.
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
3/16/17 5:18 pm
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Nature Boy Florida |
No wonder posters are leaving. Proponents of this error post it every other day. Folks get tired of seeing the same stuff...by the same posters.
_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16631
3/16/17 5:54 pm
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Resident Skeptic |
| Nature Boy Florida wrote: | | No wonder posters are leaving. Proponents of this error post it every other day. Folks get tired of seeing the same stuff...by the same posters. |
I am not a Dake proponent.
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
3/16/17 8:06 pm
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Cojak |
| c6thplayer1 wrote: | | That was the first bible I ever bought. As far as the trinity , its to far above my head to debate. Lots of other scholars can do this. |
Yeah above my pay grade too my friend. Thank God we are not supposed to be as wise, and all knowing as God. I am happy to be worshiping God. 
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Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
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http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
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3/16/17 8:55 pm
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Resident Skeptic |
| sheepdogandy wrote: | Dake is wrong on several points.
The great weight of evidence in the Scriptures declare the Triune understanding of who God is.
Read John 17.
Joh 17:1 ¶ Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
4 "I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do.
5 "And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
6 ¶ "I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word.
7 "Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You.
8 "For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You; and they have believed that You sent Me.
9 "I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours.
10 "And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them.
11 ¶ "Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are.
12 "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.
13 "But now I come to You, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have My joy fulfilled in themselves.
14 "I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
15 "I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one.
16 "They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
17 ¶ "Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.
18 "As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.
19 "And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.
20 ¶ "I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;
21 "that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.
22 "And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
23 "I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.
24 ¶ "Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.
25 "O righteous Father! The world has not known You, but I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me.
26 "And I have declared to them Your name, and will declare it, that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them."
As Christians Bubba and I are commanded to be one.
It's a matter of context.
We will never be the same person. |
Jesus was not teaching on the construct of the Godhead in John 17. You seem to be denying, as Dake does, that the persons of the Trinity are one in being.
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
3/17/17 1:59 pm
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c6thplayer1 |
| So which way does the COG believe? |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6385
3/17/17 2:44 pm
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sheepdogandy |
Then WHO is He praying to?
_________________
Charles A. Hutchins
Senior Pastor SPWC
Congregational Church of God
www.spwc.church |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 7304
3/17/17 2:46 pm
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Resident Skeptic |
| sheepdogandy wrote: | | Then WHO is He praying to? |
Look. I posted a link to an article from a Trinitarian organization condemning Dake's views as not being orthodox Trinitarian. Are they wrong? Is Dake right?
But as to your question, the human Son of God was praying to his Father and God. Because he was abstaining from his divine prerogatives (though he still possessed them) he communicated with God as humans understand communication. Prior to the incarnation, there was no need for any such communication within God's being. The distinctions that may have been in God from eternity past were not communicating with each other back then. The Spirit of God had no instructor, according to Isaiah. God was just God, complete within himself, with no need to counsel with anyone. He was already all knowing. In the incarnation, though Jesus the Son of God knew that the Godhead resided bodily in him, he laid aside the divine prerogatives of omniscience, omnipotence, and omnipresence (though they still resided in him and were at his disposal) and instead limited himself to communication with God as a normal man would.
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"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI
Last edited by Resident Skeptic on 3/18/17 9:41 am; edited 1 time in total |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
3/17/17 4:16 pm
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c6thplayer1 |
| Resident Skeptic wrote: | | sheepdogandy wrote: | | Then WHO is He praying to? |
Look. I posted a link to an article from a Trinitarian organization condemning Dake's views as not being orthodox Trinitarian. Are they wrong? Is Dake right?
But as to your question, the human Son of God was praying to his Father and God. Because he was abstaining from his divine prerogatives (though he still possessed them) he communicated with God as humans understand communication. Prior to the incarnation, there was no need for any such communication within God's being. The distinctions that may have been in God from eternity passed were not communicating with each other back then. The Spirit of God had no instructor, according to Isaiah. God was just God, complete within himself, with no need to counsel with anyone. He was already all knowing. In the incarnation, though Jesus the Son of God knew that the Godhead resided bodily in him, he laid aside the divine prerogatives of omniscience, omnipotence, and omnipresence (though they still resided in him and were at his disposal) and instead limited himself to communication with God as a normal man would. |
Good Post Res.. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6385
3/17/17 4:49 pm
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sheepdogandy |
And your source for this interpretation is? 
_________________
Charles A. Hutchins
Senior Pastor SPWC
Congregational Church of God
www.spwc.church |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 7304
3/17/17 8:40 pm
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| Some thoughts... |
Aaron Scott |
If you go with Dake's take (hey!), then Hinn's statement about there being NINE in the godhead is not so far of a leap (even though that does not seem to be Dake's view).
At the same time, let me state that this is precisely the reason we shouldn't hold the specific doctrine of the trinity as an utter necessity. Why? Because there so many "legitimate" takes on the trinity that if we posted them all, we wouldn't get everyone to agree which one was right...and then we'd start arguing amongst ourselves. Wait...we already do that.
If a person believes there is one God and that Jesus is His only begotten Son...that's about as close as the scripture allows us to approach before we start fussing. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6036
3/17/17 8:52 pm
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Carolyn Smith |
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| Re: Some thoughts... |
Carolyn Smith |
| Aaron Scott wrote: | If you go with Dake's take (hey!), then Hinn's statement about there being NINE in the godhead is not so far of a leap (even though that does not seem to be Dake's view).
At the same time, let me state that this is precisely the reason we shouldn't hold the specific doctrine of the trinity as an utter necessity. Why? Because there so many "legitimate" takes on the trinity that if we posted them all, we wouldn't get everyone to agree which one was right...and then we'd start arguing amongst ourselves. Wait...we already do that.
If a person believes there is one God and that Jesus is His only begotten Son...that's about as close as the scripture allows us to approach before we start fussing. |
C'mon, Benny Hinn admitted he was wrong on that statement long ago...
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3/17/17 9:14 pm
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| Re: Some thoughts... |
Cojak |
| Aaron Scott wrote: | If you go with Dake's take (hey!), then Hinn's statement about there being NINE in the godhead is not so far of a leap (even though that does not seem to be Dake's view).
At the same time, let me state that this is precisely the reason we shouldn't hold the specific doctrine of the trinity as an utter necessity. Why? Because there so many "legitimate" takes on the trinity that if we posted them all, we wouldn't get everyone to agree which one was right...and then we'd start arguing amongst ourselves. Wait...we already do that.
If a person believes there is one God and that Jesus is His only begotten Son...that's about as close as the scripture allows us to approach before we start fussing. |
Intelligent, honest Godly scholars differ in an explanation or definition of the Godhead. I worship the True God. If I said I could explain GOD i would be guilty of lying. BUT HE knows I believe in HIM no matter if I have to wait until my passing to know REALITY.
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
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Posts: 24282
3/17/17 9:23 pm
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| Re: Some thoughts... |
c6thplayer1 |
| Cojak wrote: | | Aaron Scott wrote: | If you go with Dake's take (hey!), then Hinn's statement about there being NINE in the godhead is not so far of a leap (even though that does not seem to be Dake's view).
At the same time, let me state that this is precisely the reason we shouldn't hold the specific doctrine of the trinity as an utter necessity. Why? Because there so many "legitimate" takes on the trinity that if we posted them all, we wouldn't get everyone to agree which one was right...and then we'd start arguing amongst ourselves. Wait...we already do that.
If a person believes there is one God and that Jesus is His only begotten Son...that's about as close as the scripture allows us to approach before we start fussing. |
Intelligent, honest Godly scholars differ in an explanation or definition of the Godhead. I worship the True God. If I said I could explain GOD i would be guilty of lying. BUT HE knows I believe in HIM no matter if I have to wait until my passing to know REALITY. |
Cojak I have to correct your assumption. " If I said I could explain GOD i would be guilty of lying." You should have said " If I said I could explain GOD i would be guilty of being a politician. "
Well on second thought , there both the same....
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3/17/17 9:37 pm
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| Re: Some thoughts... |
Cojak |
| c6thplayer1 wrote: | ... " If I said I could explain GOD i would be guilty of being a politician. "
Well on second thought , there both the same....
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_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
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3/17/17 10:21 pm
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