| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Message |
Author |
 Do Some CoG's Get Sweet Deals? |
Change Agent |
We are reading more and more about churches leaving the COG organization. It seems to be very easy for some to leave. All power and authority seems to be in the local church. Cleveland does nothing except send a representative out to tell everyone goodbye.
On the other hand some churches are controlled by Cleveland and cannot leave the organization easily. The COG would tell the congregation to go find yourself another building and take this pastor with you.
Does the COG Minutes have anything to say about required control by the organization? Are the Minutes being followed in all cases? Are COG leaders giving some churches sweet deals? Would it not be right for all churches to have sweet deals and be able to leave as they choose?? |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1449
3/12/17 8:46 pm
|
|
|
|  |
 |
|
|
| |
sheepdogandy |
Well one could ask Joe Chambers. 
_________________
Charles A. Hutchins
Senior Pastor SPWC
Congregational Church of God
www.spwc.church |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 7304
3/12/17 9:20 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Bro Bob |
It is a good question.
Can a pastor go to the pulpit and declare all marriages in the congregation dissolved? (Of course not.) WHY not? |
Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
Posts: 3945
3/12/17 9:24 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
sheepdogandy |
Not in my Church. 
_________________
Charles A. Hutchins
Senior Pastor SPWC
Congregational Church of God
www.spwc.church |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 7304
3/12/17 9:34 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Cojak |
There is not an organization business or religion where there is not preference treatment. I am very familiar with that even in local churches, some members are given preferential treatment.
Most of the time there is a good reason. NC lost a good church in Mt. HOlly. The Overseer made what he thought was the best decision, if the church itself could assume the million dollar+ loan they could take it. They could and they did.
The overseer knew there would only be a handful of folks left, and they had come from other COG's in the area. It was a logical decision, it did not set well with many preachers but the Overseer used his discretion. That happens when the church is built around a personality, not the organization.
So my answer is of course there is preferences. Another Overseer decided that Joe Chambers should leave the structures, his discretion. Joe fought i in court and lost. Joe knew from his youth the chain of command and ownership of property.
Different men different situations.
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011
Posts: 24282
3/12/17 11:58 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Cojak |
| sheepdogandy wrote: | | Not in my Church. |
See my friend, you still have that COG pastor's mindset, "NOT IN MY CHURCH!"  
Still love you dude! 
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011
Posts: 24282
3/13/17 12:01 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Old Time Country Preacher |
| sheepdogandy wrote: | | Well one could ask Joe Chambers. |
Who is Joe Chambers? |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
3/13/17 3:18 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Link |
| Cojak wrote: | There is not an organization business or religion where there is not preference treatment. I am very familiar with that even in local churches, some members are given preferential treatment.
Most of the time there is a good reason. NC lost a good church in Mt. HOlly. The Overseer made what he thought was the best decision, if the church itself could assume the million dollar+ loan they could take it. They could and they did.
The overseer knew there would only be a handful of folks left, and they had come from other COG's in the area. It was a logical decision, it did not set well with many preachers but the Overseer used his discretion. That happens when the church is built around a personality, not the organization.
So my answer is of course there is preferences. Another Overseer decided that Joe Chambers should leave the structures, his discretion. Joe fought i in court and lost. Joe knew from his youth the chain of command and ownership of property.
Different men different situations. |
So is the strategy to keep the building to have a a really large church building that would be hard to fill with a new congregation in a reasonably short period of time and a loan amount so high that the denomination cannot afford to take it on?
_________________
Link |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11849
3/13/17 4:27 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Link |
| Bro Bob wrote: | It is a good question.
Can a pastor go to the pulpit and declare all marriages in the congregation dissolved? (Of course not.) WHY not? |
The Bible has something to say about marriage.
_________________
Link |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11849
3/13/17 4:29 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Nature Boy Florida |
| Link wrote: | | Cojak wrote: | There is not an organization business or religion where there is not preference treatment. I am very familiar with that even in local churches, some members are given preferential treatment.
Most of the time there is a good reason. NC lost a good church in Mt. HOlly. The Overseer made what he thought was the best decision, if the church itself could assume the million dollar+ loan they could take it. They could and they did.
The overseer knew there would only be a handful of folks left, and they had come from other COG's in the area. It was a logical decision, it did not set well with many preachers but the Overseer used his discretion. That happens when the church is built around a personality, not the organization.
So my answer is of course there is preferences. Another Overseer decided that Joe Chambers should leave the structures, his discretion. Joe fought i in court and lost. Joe knew from his youth the chain of command and ownership of property.
Different men different situations. |
So is the strategy to keep the building to have a a really large church building that would be hard to fill with a new congregation in a reasonably short period of time and a loan amount so high that the denomination cannot afford to take it on? |
That has worked almost 100% of the time.
_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16630
3/13/17 7:01 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Bro Bob |
| Quote: | | The Bible has something to say about marriage. |
I heard about that.
(The rest of this is just an aging 5th gen CoG boy dealing with something that grieves him.)
I am trying to point out that being my pastor does not grant you the authority to dissolve a vow I have made to join the Church of God anymore than it would grant you authority to dissolve my wedding vows. And this local church is no more your church because you have faithfully pastored it than it is mine because I have faithfully supported it. I have a sermon topic for you... preach 1 Cor 1:10-17.
There will be some who won't stay at Redemption Point because they do consider themselves to be loyal members of the Church of God and they take their vow to join seriously, but those will be few and quickly replaced. Most will accept their divorce from the CoG with hardly a thought. This is because the member has no involvement with Cleveland, and almost no involvement with State offices. It was not always this way.
Kevin was Church of God. Losing him is a huge loss for the denomination. But the church has nothing to offer him other than fellowship and applause. He got a ton of that last Saturday night at Winterfest. It doesn't last.
The safety net of being offered another church if things start going badly at this one has no meaning. The opportunity to become a State Overseer or even General Overseer holds no enticement. All oversight of church operations are released to his discretion.
In short, his ministry, like the other men pictured with him on his facebook page has outgrown the denominational advantages. I am confident his ministry will only grow.
He has made a very logical decision. |
Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
Posts: 3945
3/13/17 9:52 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
sheepdogandy |
In the Joe Chambers case the judge was a United Methodist.
That is why he and his folks at Paw Creek lost.
Bro Joe's contention was that the Church of God had moved away from what it was when he joined.
It had become something else, something that was foreign to him and his people.
Cleveland had crossed a line that he could not tolerate.
I have spoken with many Church of God pastors and preachers over the years.
They all have a line, a boundary which when crossed would motivate them to withdraw from the oversight of Cleveland.
Ordination of women, homosexual marriage etc...
Oh by the way, when I joined the C/G I did not take any vow or enter into any marriage arrangement.
I am curious if any of you who did would disclose exactly what the vow consisted of.
_________________
Charles A. Hutchins
Senior Pastor SPWC
Congregational Church of God
www.spwc.church |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 7304
3/13/17 11:54 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Link |
| Bro Bob wrote: | | Quote: | | The Bible has something to say about marriage. |
I heard about that.
(The rest of this is just an aging 5th gen CoG boy dealing with something that grieves him.)
I am trying to point out that being my pastor does not grant you the authority to dissolve a vow I have made to join the Church of God anymore than it would grant you authority to dissolve my wedding vows. And this local church is no more your church because you have faithfully pastored it than it is mine because I have faithfully supported it. I have a sermon topic for you... preach 1 Cor 1:10-17. |
Wouldn't those verses present a basis for an argument not to join a denomination like the COG, Cleveland?
Do you actually swear vows to join the COG? I've never joined a COG in the US. I never swore an oath to join a church in Indonesia, either. I don't think I'd ever join a church if it required me to swear an oath to join. It seems like I've seen some old COG minutes against swearing oaths.
Btw, the Bible doesn't say swearing a vow makes a marriage a marriage. That's part of the RCC ceremony, which was probably influenced by the pre-Christian Roman ceremonies, which used a pagan priest instead.
_________________
Link |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11849
3/13/17 12:40 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| Do Some CoG's Get Sweet Deals? |
Change Agent |
Is there any violation of COG Minutes when churches are allowed in to the COG without putting up their property in the COG organization name.
I have heard that some churches are allowed to join and still own their property and buildings and others are made to place their property and buildings in the COG name controlled by Cleveland.
What does the Minutes state? I would look it up but I do not have a copy. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1449
3/13/17 1:02 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| If a church leases its property... |
roughridercog |
Then little can be done to stop it.
_________________
Doctor of Bovinamodulation |
Acts Mod
Posts: 25306
3/13/17 2:09 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| Re: Do Some CoG's Get Sweet Deals? |
Quiet Wyatt |
| Change Agent wrote: | Is there any violation of COG Minutes when churches are allowed in to the COG without putting up their property in the COG organization name.
I have heard that some churches are allowed to join and still own their property and buildings and others are made to place their property and buildings in the COG name controlled by Cleveland.
What does the Minutes state? I would look it up but I do not have a copy. |
If I recall correctly, the "affiliate status" that was passed by the General Assembly a few years ago does indeed allow for churches to affiliate with the CoG while retaining local ownership of their property. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12802
3/13/17 3:01 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Bro Bob |
|
|
| |
|
| Do Some CoG's Get Sweet Deals? |
Change Agent |
There has been in the past that the COG minutes were the highest rules for the organization of the COG.
Leaders have given churches special deals that go against the COG Minutes as posted by Bro Bob in his above post.
Churches are allowed to be a part of the COG without deeding their property.
How does that make the pastor of a church feel who has to get Cleveland ok on every move. Some can stand up and say I am taking this church and congregation and the COG does nothing.
How does this happen? Why go to the General Assembly? It doesn't matter.
Church that have left are not affiliate churches. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1449
3/13/17 5:36 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
