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 Why was Cain's sacrifice rejected? |
Aaron Scott |
The most common answer I've heard is that Cain's offering wasn't a blood sacrifice. But I am not convinced that that is the truth of the matter. God said that his sacrifice was rejected because sin lay at the door.
What do you think? |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6032
3/7/17 5:25 pm
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diakoneo |
Gen 4:5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.
Gen 4:6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
Gen 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
Seems to me:
Cain's offering seems to be an afterthought, "Process of time or end of days" Like, "well I guess I need to offer something." Abel's is the "firstling of the flock and the fat thereof" in other words the best.
Also that God put Cain and Able ahead of their offering ("Cain and his offering" and "Abel and his offering"). Of course it is not the offering God is interested in, it is the person who gives the offering. |
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3/7/17 6:05 pm
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| by faith...a better sacrifice |
Mark Ledbetter |
The Genesis passage states God had "regard" or "looked upon with approval" both Abel and his sacrifice, but had nor regard for either Cain or his sacrifice.
| Quote: | | Hebrews 11:4, "By faith Abel offered to God a better sacrifice than Cain, though which he obtained the testimony that he was righteous, God testifying about [by receiving] his gifts, and through faith, though he is dead, he still speaks." |
{another rendering could be, "By his faithfulness Cain offered..."}
Jesus declares Abel' is regarded as "righteous" - Matthew 23:35
| Quote: | | 1 John 3:11-12 reveals, "For this the message which you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another; not as Cain, who was of the evil one and slew his brother. And for what reason did he slay him? Because his deeds were evil, and his brother's were righteous." |
We know only God can truly know the heart and only He can discern the true motives for our actions. The testimony of Scripture cited above provides commentary after the fact. The conclusion is obviously inferred from God's subsequent rebuke of Cain and Cain's subsequent action which revealed Cain's moral and ethical values determining his actions.
Therefore, we might conclude from the passage and our knowledge of God being a righteous Judge, and having insight into the nature of Cain, He did not look upon neither Cain nor his sacrifice with approval.
I break with tradition here and write that had Cain's heart - his values - been right, even the sacrifice he offered, the very fruit of his labors, would have been accepted. If Cain's fruit of the ground it may have been defective because:
1. It wasn't the first fruits
2. It was leftovers
3. If a blood sacrifice was required, he didn't exchange the fruit for a proper lamb sacrifice.
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3/7/17 6:30 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
| I would basically agree with Mark Ledbetter's excellent thoughts on this. I especially would say that righteous Abel offered his sacrifice by faith, while evil Cain's offering was not by faith because his heart was not righteous. |
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3/7/17 7:08 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| This ones a easy one, fellers. Cain was not Adams son, he was the seed of the serpent. Didn't y'all learn nothin from Dr Shane ThD? |
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3/7/17 7:39 pm
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| Did Cain offer his firstfruits |
roughridercog |
Just asking
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Posts: 25306
3/7/17 7:54 pm
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bonnie knox |
Were first fruits required of Cain or Abel? Was blood sacrifice required?
The scripture doesn't indicate that either of these were requirements for the offerings of Cain or Abel.
One Wednesday night, our pastor asked the class about Cain's sacrifice. Apparently the woman who answered had heard the same teaching the pastor had because she gave the answer he wanted. She said that when the Bible said Cain took OF the fruit of the ground that meant he just haphazardly took some and not the best part. Who knew "OF" meant all that? I can only guess they had been listening to the same radio or TV preacher who must have come up with that (probably before asking people to send their best offering).
Once the law was instituted, there were various offerings. Some offerings were not blood sacrifices, so I don't see a reason God would have rejected an offering of the fruit of the ground if Cain's heart had been in the right place. |
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3/7/17 9:49 pm
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Bro Bob |
| Quote: | Were first fruits required of Cain or Abel? Was blood sacrifice required?
The scripture doesn't indicate that either of these were requirements for the offerings of Cain or Abel. ~ Bonnie
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As usual, Bonnie is paying attention. There is nothing to indicate any offering or sacrifice was required at all, much less any 'type' of one.
The days in which God personally visited and spoke to man, must have been something. The fact that God spoke with Cain, and asked him some leading questions suggests to me that God was attempting to give insight to him AND his brother. He was trying to reveal himself to them.
I wish Cain had asked, "Why did you approve of Abel's sacrifice and reject mine? THIS is why my countenance has fallen."
Even without him asking, God provided a learning opportunity: This is one of those times when I believe the NLT nails it:
Gen 4:7 You will be accepted if you do what is right. But if you refuse to do what is right, then watch out! Sin is crouching at the door, eager to control you. But you must subdue it and be its master."
There are many who profess themselves to so much wiser than Cain, yet they still haven't learned this basic lesson from their creator.
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3/7/17 11:10 pm
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bradfreeman |
Cain's sacrifice grew out of the earth, the flesh - works.
Abel's pictured Christ - faith.
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Acts-dicted
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3/8/17 9:14 am
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bonnie knox |
| bradfreeman wrote: | Cain's sacrifice grew out of the earth, the flesh - works.
Abel's pictured Christ - faith. |
That sounds like something Ole Timer would do--chime in on his pet topic in a metaphor that is uncalled for. I can hear Ole Timer saying that Cain's sacrifice wasn't from an accredited institution.
The fact of the matter is that even once the Law was instituted, there were offerings of the fruit of the earth.
Leviticus 2:1-3 NKJV
‘When anyone offers a grain offering to the Lord, his offering shall be of fine flour. And he shall pour oil on it, and put frankincense on it. 2 He shall bring it to Aaron’s sons, the priests, one of whom shall take from it his handful of fine flour and oil with all the frankincense. And the priest shall burn it as a memorial on the altar, an offering made by fire, a sweet aroma to the Lord. 3 The rest of the grain offering shall be Aaron’s and his sons’. It is most holy of the offerings to the Lord made by fire. |
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3/8/17 9:35 am
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| Typology |
Mark Ledbetter |
Rather than allowing the OT as a reference for contributing to the meaning of the NT, hyper-typologist from the late 1st-century - early 2nd-century, and most certainly Augustine, uses typology to re-interpret the OT to suit their application of Scripture.
The Greek/Western philosophical mindset attempts to force the Hebrew/Eastern mindset into a mold that does not fit.
Yes, the OT up to Jesus uses parables but the use is not typological but analogy.
It isn't this is that, but this is like that in this way.
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3/8/17 10:09 am
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| Re: by faith...a better sacrifice |
diakoneo |
| Mark Ledbetter wrote: | The Genesis passage states God had "regard" or "looked upon with approval" both Abel and his sacrifice, but had nor regard for either Cain or his sacrifice.
| Quote: | | Hebrews 11:4, "By faith Abel offered to God a better sacrifice than Cain, though which he obtained the testimony that he was righteous, God testifying about [by receiving] his gifts, and through faith, though he is dead, he still speaks." |
{another rendering could be, "By his faithfulness Cain offered..."}
Jesus declares Abel' is regarded as "righteous" - Matthew 23:35
| Quote: | | 1 John 3:11-12 reveals, "For this the message which you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another; not as Cain, who was of the evil one and slew his brother. And for what reason did he slay him? Because his deeds were evil, and his brother's were righteous." |
We know only God can truly know the heart and only He can discern the true motives for our actions. The testimony of Scripture cited above provides commentary after the fact. The conclusion is obviously inferred from God's subsequent rebuke of Cain and Cain's subsequent action which revealed Cain's moral and ethical values determining his actions.
Therefore, we might conclude from the passage and our knowledge of God being a righteous Judge, and having insight into the nature of Cain, He did not look upon neither Cain nor his sacrifice with approval.
I break with tradition here and write that had Cain's heart - his values - been right, even the sacrifice he offered, the very fruit of his labors, would have been accepted. If Cain's fruit of the ground it may have been defective because:
1. It wasn't the first fruits
2. It was leftovers
3. If a blood sacrifice was required, he didn't exchange the fruit for a proper lamb sacrifice. |
What he said...
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3/8/17 12:12 pm
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Pastor Wright |
| Quiet Wyatt wrote: | | I would basically agree with Mark Ledbetter's excellent thoughts on this. I especially would say that righteous Abel offered his sacrifice by faith, while evil Cain's offering was not by faith because his heart was not righteous. |
I've always explained it like this as well.
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Hey, DOC
Posts: 68
3/8/17 12:17 pm
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bradfreeman |
| bonnie knox wrote: | | bradfreeman wrote: | Cain's sacrifice grew out of the earth, the flesh - works.
Abel's pictured Christ - faith. |
That sounds like something Ole Timer would do--chime in on his pet topic in a metaphor that is uncalled for. I can hear Ole Timer saying that Cain's sacrifice wasn't from an accredited institution. |
Heb. 11:4 By faith Abel offered to God a better sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained the testimony that he was righteous, God testifying about his gifts, and through faith, though he is dead, he still speaks.
How does righteousness come?
Each person in Heb 11 expresses faith in Christ through a foreshadowing, a picture.
Shame you compare righteousness by faith to accreditation issues. Righteousness by faith IS the core message of the Bible.
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3/8/17 4:12 pm
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bonnie knox |
| Quote: | | Shame you compare righteousness by faith to accreditation issues. |
Real slick of you to frame what I said that way. What I compared was the way you brought up a pet topic and the way Ole Timer brings up a pet topic. You compared Cain's offering of produce to the flesh and Abel's offering of livestock to a picture of Christ. While I agree that the Old Testament sacrifice system points to Christ, I don't see anything in the story of Cain and Abel to suggest that the offering was a work of the flesh because it was produce. Therefore, I concluded that the metaphor of the produce growing out of the earth as being a work of the flesh uncalled for. |
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3/8/17 4:56 pm
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| Bonnie...about "of" |
Aaron Scott |
(Genesis 4:3 KJV) And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought OF the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.
(Genesis 4:4 KJV) And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings OF his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
Now, I do notice that the word "firstlings" is included with Abel's sacrifice, but not with Cain's. That's not telling, necessarily, but it is interesting.
But if "OF" is considered to be proof of being haphazard, it would seem to follow that Abel chose haphazardly from the firstlings.
Maybe? |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6032
3/8/17 6:59 pm
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| Re: Bonnie...about "of" |
bonnie knox |
Aaron, that makes perfectly logical sense to me, but I suspect it would have been useless for me to have brought that up.
| Aaron Scott wrote: | (Genesis 4:3 KJV) And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought OF the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.
(Genesis 4:4 KJV) And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings OF his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
Now, I do notice that the word "firstlings" is included with Abel's sacrifice, but not with Cain's. That's not telling, necessarily, but it is interesting.
But if "OF" is considered to be proof of being haphazard, it would seem to follow that Abel chose haphazardly from the firstlings.
Maybe? |
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Posts: 14803
3/8/17 7:09 pm
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Bro Bob |
As I said, there are those among us today who ignore the words of almighty God in Genesis 4:7, not heeding His explanation and instruction, doing just as Cain did, all the while esteeming themselves to be Cain's righteous superior.
There's nothing wrong with your comprehension, Bonnie.
BB |
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3/8/17 7:33 pm
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Nature Boy Florida |
| bradfreeman wrote: | | bonnie knox wrote: | | bradfreeman wrote: | Cain's sacrifice grew out of the earth, the flesh - works.
Abel's pictured Christ - faith. |
That sounds like something Ole Timer would do--chime in on his pet topic in a metaphor that is uncalled for. I can hear Ole Timer saying that Cain's sacrifice wasn't from an accredited institution. |
Heb. 11:4 By faith Abel offered to God a better sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained the testimony that he was righteous, God testifying about his gifts, and through faith, though he is dead, he still speaks.
How does righteousness come?
Each person in Heb 11 expresses faith in Christ through a foreshadowing, a picture.
Shame you compare righteousness by faith to accreditation issues. Righteousness by faith IS the core message of the Bible. |
So it wasn't faith - it was that it was blood (which made it a type of Christ's sacrifice).
Unbelievable that faith was not enough but it was the works by getting blood that made the sacrifice acceptable.
Brad has sure changed.
I will rest on the fact that it was the faith alone that was enough - but you keep on believing on getting "the works" right Brad.
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3/9/17 9:07 am
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| Semantics: "of" or "from" |
Mark Ledbetter |
The Hebrew renders the word "from"; therefore
Cain brought from the fruit of the ground while the passage emphasizes Abel brought an offering from the firstlings of the sheep/goats as well as the "fat from them."
The detail is significant.
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3/9/17 9:50 am
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