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 BRAD...can a Christian backslide and go to hell? |
Aaron Scott |
Can someone who has believed on the Lord wind up lost?
Your take? |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6032
11/19/16 10:14 am
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bradfreeman |
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Cojak |
| bradfreeman wrote: | | Yes, you can fall away from faith. |
At's sorta what I thought, BUT, but I don't think it is as simple as I was lead to believe as a child. I do believe God is very loving and more lenient with his children than many strict followers believe. And NO I do not believe in trying to see how far one can go before they fall into the Abyss, But when my sons go against my will, I do give them space.
I believe the heavenly FAther also is in fact the good father.
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011
Posts: 24277
11/19/16 11:31 pm
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Lee Roy Brown |
You can't lose your salvation. You can surrender it but you can't lose it. Nothing can separate us from God. There is no sin so great that could cause you to lose your salvation. No you don't need to "repent" for every sin you commit. Jesus finished it once and for all on the cross. Just like any good relationship you will want to seek forgiveness when you are wrong that comes out of love and a good heart not out of a need to try to maintain a certain standard or position.
There I said it and yes i'm a COG minister. Before you bash me there is a lot more of people thinking like me now a days in our movement. Just ask Loran.
Peace out. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 426
11/20/16 8:35 am
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DrDuck |
| Lee Roy Brown wrote: | You can't lose your salvation. You can surrender it but you can't lose it. Nothing can separate us from God. There is no sin so great that could cause you to lose your salvation. No you don't need to "repent" for every sin you commit. Jesus finished it once and for all on the cross. Just like any good relationship you will want to seek forgiveness when you are wrong that comes out of love and a good heart not out of a need to try to maintain a certain standard or position.
There I said it and yes i'm a COG minister. Before you bash me there is a lot more of people thinking like me now a days in our movement. Just ask Loran.
Peace out. |
Glad to see some folks are finally catching on to scriptural teaching on salvation. I am 75 years old. Been part of the COG from birth. I do not remember any time I did not see salvation in this light.
A person does not lose salvation over some committed sin. In order to truly "backslide" one would have to reverse the process of being saved denying and renouncing Christ and the hope of a saved experience. As long as one is a free moral agent he has that option. |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 755
11/20/16 8:49 am
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| Some thoughts... |
Aaron Scott |
| Quote: | (2 Peter 2:20 KJV) For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
(2 Peter 2:21 KJV) For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. |
Now, consider that if a person never knew the way of righteousness, they are, according to many of us, going to hell.
But Peter says that it is BETTER for a person to, in effect, go to hell...than to (paraphrasing) backslide.
I wonder if Jesus was not on the same thing here when He said that He preferred people to be EITHER hot or cold...not lukewarm? In other words, be on fire for God...or be so cold as to, apparently, go to hell.
A person CAN fall away. I don't necessarily think it is in some ritualistic "I hereby denounce Jesus and my faith," but in, as the Bible says, "(Titus 1:16 KJV) They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6032
11/20/16 4:18 pm
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Cojak |
| Lee Roy Brown wrote: | You can't lose your salvation. You can surrender it but you can't lose it. Nothing can separate us from God. There is no sin so great that could cause you to lose your salvation. No you don't need to "repent" for every sin you commit. Jesus finished it once and for all on the cross. Just like any good relationship you will want to seek forgiveness when you are wrong that comes out of love and a good heart not out of a need to try to maintain a certain standard or position.
There I said it and yes i'm a COG minister. Before you bash me there is a lot more of people thinking like me now a days in our movement. Just ask Loran.
Peace out. |
Hey my friend, don't see you here often anymore. But as always I enjoy and appreciate your comments.
I will not go as far as 'never lose' but you said it better than I could express it. 
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011
Posts: 24277
11/21/16 12:06 am
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Nature Boy Florida |
| Lee Roy Brown wrote: | You can't lose your salvation. You can surrender it but you can't lose it. Nothing can separate us from God. There is no sin so great that could cause you to lose your salvation. No you don't need to "repent" for every sin you commit. Jesus finished it once and for all on the cross. Just like any good relationship you will want to seek forgiveness when you are wrong that comes out of love and a good heart not out of a need to try to maintain a certain standard or position.
There I said it and yes i'm a COG minister. Before you bash me there is a lot more of people thinking like me now a days in our movement. Just ask Loran.
Peace out. |
Is Loran still in our movement?
I thought it was said a couple of years ago he was pulling out for some reason.
_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16619
11/21/16 12:04 pm
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| Re: Some thoughts... |
Lee Roy Brown |
| Aaron Scott wrote: | | Quote: | (2 Peter 2:20 KJV) For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
(2 Peter 2:21 KJV) For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. |
Now, consider that if a person never knew the way of righteousness, they are, according to many of us, going to hell.
But Peter says that it is BETTER for a person to, in effect, go to hell...than to (paraphrasing) backslide.
I wonder if Jesus was not on the same thing here when He said that He preferred people to be EITHER hot or cold...not lukewarm? In other words, be on fire for God...or be so cold as to, apparently, go to hell.
A person CAN fall away. I don't necessarily think it is in some ritualistic "I hereby denounce Jesus and my faith," but in, as the Bible says, "(Titus 1:16 KJV) They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. |
Would you agree that the bible teachers in order to get saved one must "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved"? It didn't add any other conditions to it. Saved to me speaks of eternity with Christ. Many people quote Timothy where he gives a list of sins you can't commit in order to inherit the kingdom. We teach that means heaven. What if the kingdom was what God was trying to bring us into here on earth. We have the keys to the kingdom. That a person can believe in Jesus Christ and be saved because its not his will any should perish but continue to do the things not pleasing to Christ and miss all the blessing He has for them on this earth and the rewards In heaven? What if we should rethink everything we have thought?
As far as losing your salvation. If you can lose it than it wasn't HIS to begin with. I think it's crazy to teach that we come to faith through grace but than turn around and teach we must stay saved by works? Jude says that "He is able to keep me from falling." What does that mean? I'm holy because of what he has none not because of what I have done. My righteousness is as filthy rags.
I think the misconception with this teaching is people think we preach an everything goes gospel. That is not the case. I argue that once you realized that it really is all about Jesus and the price was paid through him. You will want to live as closely to him as you can and do what is right in his eyes. But even when you don't, you are still his son or daughter. You might get mad at your kids but you would never disown them.
One last scripture people quote. Be ye perfect? Let me ask you how that is working out for you?
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Friendly Face
Posts: 426
11/21/16 3:09 pm
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Lee Roy Brown |
| Cojak wrote: | | Lee Roy Brown wrote: | You can't lose your salvation. You can surrender it but you can't lose it. Nothing can separate us from God. There is no sin so great that could cause you to lose your salvation. No you don't need to "repent" for every sin you commit. Jesus finished it once and for all on the cross. Just like any good relationship you will want to seek forgiveness when you are wrong that comes out of love and a good heart not out of a need to try to maintain a certain standard or position.
There I said it and yes i'm a COG minister. Before you bash me there is a lot more of people thinking like me now a days in our movement. Just ask Loran.
Peace out. |
Hey my friend, don't see you here often anymore. But as always I enjoy and appreciate your comments. |
Hey my friend how are you? I stop by on occasion but don't post here much. I will be honest sometimes this site brings out the worst in me so I try to stay away.
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Friendly Face
Posts: 426
11/21/16 3:11 pm
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Lee Roy Brown |
| Nature Boy Florida wrote: | | Lee Roy Brown wrote: | You can't lose your salvation. You can surrender it but you can't lose it. Nothing can separate us from God. There is no sin so great that could cause you to lose your salvation. No you don't need to "repent" for every sin you commit. Jesus finished it once and for all on the cross. Just like any good relationship you will want to seek forgiveness when you are wrong that comes out of love and a good heart not out of a need to try to maintain a certain standard or position.
There I said it and yes i'm a COG minister. Before you bash me there is a lot more of people thinking like me now a days in our movement. Just ask Loran.
Peace out. |
Is Loran still in our movement?
I thought it was said a couple of years ago he was pulling out for some reason. |
He is still very much apart of our movement. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 426
11/21/16 3:15 pm
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bonnie knox |
| I think you mean "a part," which is considerably different in this case than "apart." |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
11/21/16 5:39 pm
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| Re: Some thoughts... |
Aaron Scott |
| Lee Roy Brown wrote: | | Aaron Scott wrote: | | Quote: | (2 Peter 2:20 KJV) For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
(2 Peter 2:21 KJV) For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. |
Now, consider that if a person never knew the way of righteousness, they are, according to many of us, going to hell.
But Peter says that it is BETTER for a person to, in effect, go to hell...than to (paraphrasing) backslide.
I wonder if Jesus was not on the same thing here when He said that He preferred people to be EITHER hot or cold...not lukewarm? In other words, be on fire for God...or be so cold as to, apparently, go to hell.
A person CAN fall away. I don't necessarily think it is in some ritualistic "I hereby denounce Jesus and my faith," but in, as the Bible says, "(Titus 1:16 KJV) They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. |
Would you agree that the bible teachers in order to get saved one must "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved"? It didn't add any other conditions to it.
No, not to be saved. But to STAY saved...one has to not be entangled again, as Peter put it.
Saved to me speaks of eternity with Christ. Many people quote Timothy where he gives a list of sins you can't commit in order to inherit the kingdom. We teach that means heaven. What if the kingdom was what God was trying to bring us into here on earth. We have the keys to the kingdom.
Yes, this may be your teaching. But that does not mean it is correct. If you're wrong, than you are damnably wrong. The spirit of the passages in question is that, indeed, you go are not going to be part of God's kingdom if you are doing such things.
That a person can believe in Jesus Christ and be saved because its not his will any should perish but continue to do the things not pleasing to Christ and miss all the blessing He has for them on this earth and the rewards In heaven? What if we should rethink everything we have thought?
I don't follow this. Help me out.
As far as losing your salvation. If you can lose it than it wasn't HIS to begin with. I think it's crazy to teach that we come to faith through grace but than turn around and teach we must stay saved by works? Jude says that "He is able to keep me from falling." What does that mean? I'm holy because of what he has none not because of what I have done. My righteousness is as filthy rags.
To say that if you can lose it, then it was never ours to begin with, is to create something that looks like the truth...but does not align with Peter at all. Demas LOVED this present world. To love the world is enmity with God. God's enemies will be in the lake of fire.
I think the misconception with this teaching is people think we preach an everything goes gospel. That is not the case. I argue that once you realized that it really is all about Jesus and the price was paid through him. You will want to live as closely to him as you can and do what is right in his eyes. But even when you don't, you are still his son or daughter. You might get mad at your kids but you would never disown them.
In a sense, we are ALL, saved and unsaved, the children of God. Not in the spiritual sense, of course. Would not your argument hold just as well for them? We should indeed want to live as close as we can. That's why Peter warns against being entangled again! No one will be sadder on judgment day than God.
One last scripture people quote. Be ye perfect? Let me ask you how that is working out for you?
So far, so good! SMILE. To pursue is to do as Paul says: Not having yet attained, we still strive. Further, "perfect" is often meant to mean "mature." If so...well, I still have some work there, too...but am pursuing it.
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Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6032
11/21/16 7:33 pm
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| The problem with salvation |
Mark Ledbetter |
is so many see it as an end rather than a means to an end.
Salvation is the entry point into a relationship with God, a relationship that is nurtured, develops and grows in our walk with Him.
Explore this dynamic and you will find your answers.
_________________
God-Honoring
Christ-Centered
Bible-Based
Spirit-Led
(This is how I want to be) |
Golf Cart Mafia Associate
Posts: 2109
11/21/16 7:36 pm
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| Can someone explain 2 Peter 3:14 |
Ernie Long |
Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
What is spot and what are we to be blameless from? |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1050
11/22/16 10:45 am
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Da Sheik |
I sure don't have all the answers, but I do have an opinion. I lean heavily towards the eternal security view held by many Protestants. Both sides of the debate have their favorite proof texts that seem to support whichever view they espouse. In the end, neither side is satisfied with the evidence the other side presents.
For me, some of the critical questions revolve around foreknowledge, election, and predestination. Unfortunately, many men and women much smarter than I come to different conclusions regarding the topic. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1860
11/22/16 12:34 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| Lee Roy Brown wrote: | | Just ask Loran. |
In the words of feminist theologian, Tina Turner, "What's Loran got to do, got to do, with it?" |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15565
11/22/16 1:24 pm
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| Versions of OSAS can work with Arminianism |
Aaron Scott |
The fact is that most OSAS folks I know DO NOT take the "You can do anything you want and not fall away." Now, that does not keep our side from accusing them of it! No, indeedy! Some like to claim that those low-life OSAS'ers believe you can kill, rape, steal, and even dance and still go to heaven.
NO, THAT IS NOT WHAT MOST OF THEM BELIEVE. Some, instead, take a small, extreme group/example and stereotype the rest. It's like claiming that Westboro is how Baptists believe.
Most OSAS'ers that I know--and I do believe this is a more recent development--believe that if you are doing evil things, then you never got saved to begin with! Thus, YOU NEED TO GET SAVED!
Arminians would say that if you are doing such things, you have backslidden...AND YOU NEED TO GET SAVED!
In other words, BOTH agree that a person who is practicing evil is NOT SAVED...is in need of FORGIVENESS...AND/OR BEING SAVED (AGAIN).
In many ways, it works out to what I will call theological semantics. We both pretty much mean the same thing, and we certainly, IN PRACTICE, mean the same thing. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6032
11/22/16 2:01 pm
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| In other words |
roughridercog |
Some know they have it and are afraid they might lose it.
The others know they can't lose it, but are afraid they don't have it.
_________________
Doctor of Bovinamodulation |
Acts Mod
Posts: 25306
11/23/16 8:15 am
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| Re: In other words |
Da Sheik |
| roughridercog wrote: | Some know they have it and are afraid they might lose it.
The others know they can't lose it, but are afraid they don't have it.
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Nice summation Rough
Aaron makes a good point too. Most of what we argue about re: this topic revolves around semantics. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1860
11/23/16 8:50 am
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