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What this passage really means: Work out "your own salvation" with "fear and trembling".

 
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Post What this passage really means: Work out "your own salvation" with "fear and trembling". bradfreeman
For you have not come to a mountain that can be touched and to a blazing fire, and to darkness and gloom and whirlwind, and to the blast of a trumpet and the sound of words which sound was such that those who heard begged that no further word be spoken to them. For they could not bear the command, “If even a beast touches the mountain, it will be stoned.” And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, “I am full of fear and trembling.” Heb. 12:18-22

We have not come to a mountain of Law that leaves us "full of fear and trembling".

and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, Phil. 3:9

We have not come to a mountain of Law that find us working for our own righteousness "derived from Law". We can't build a tower to Heaven toiling and sweating to make bricks under the bondage of the Law in the mix of the red clay of flesh and the straw and stubble of our works.

We are not trying to establish our own righteousness, or save ourselves.
We are letting a different mindset govern our lives.

Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Phil 2:5-8

Let this mind be "in you".

Work "out" the idea of saving your life, your righteousness. Work "out" the leaven of pharisees (Gal 5:4-10), the idea that you can save yourself and establish your own righteousness.

Lose that life, count it all loss, rubbish...lay it down and see that life crucified with Christ. Let His perfect love "cast out all fear".

So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure. Phil. 2:12, 13

We don't work "for" our salvation.
We're working that fear and trembling mindset out. He hasn't given us the spirit of fear (2 Tim 1:7) or the spirit of bondage again to fear (Rom. 8:15).

Work "out" your doing, your work, your effort.
Let a renewed mind in - the mind of Christ, His doing, His will, His finished work and realize God "is at work in you".
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Post Old Time Country Preacher
Thank you for enlightenment, Brad. I need to git me one a them JD things so I can rightly divide at good Book too. Acts-pert Poster
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9/24/16 8:01 am


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Post Re: What this passage really means: Work out "your own salvation" with "fear and trembling". Mark Ledbetter
bradfreeman wrote:
For you have not come to a mountain that can be touched and to a blazing fire, and to darkness and gloom and whirlwind, and to the blast of a trumpet and the sound of words which sound was such that those who heard begged that no further word be spoken to them. For they could not bear the command, “If even a beast touches the mountain, it will be stoned.” And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, “I am full of fear and trembling.” Heb. 12:18-22

We have not come to a mountain of Law that leaves us "full of fear and trembling".

and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, Phil. 3:9

We have not come to a mountain of Law that find us working for our own righteousness "derived from Law". We can't build a tower to Heaven toiling and sweating to make bricks under the bondage of the Law in the mix of the red clay of flesh and the straw and stubble of our works.

We are not trying to establish our own righteousness, or save ourselves.
We are letting a different mindset govern our lives.

Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Phil 2:5-8

Let this mind be "in you".

Work "out" the idea of saving your life, your righteousness. Work "out" the leaven of pharisees (Gal 5:4-10), the idea that you can save yourself and establish your own righteousness.

Lose that life, count it all loss, rubbish...lay it down and see that life crucified with Christ. Let His perfect love "cast out all fear".

So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure. Phil. 2:12, 13

We don't work "for" our salvation.
We're working that fear and trembling mindset out. He hasn't given us the spirit of fear (2 Tim 1:7) or the spirit of bondage again to fear (Rom. 8:15).

Work "out" your doing, your work, your effort.
Let a renewed mind in - the mind of Christ, His doing, His will, His finished work and realize God "is at work in you".



once again you read a predisposed position into a passage to draw your own conclusion...thanks for reminding me why I don't read your posts.
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Post Re: What this passage really means: Work out "your own salvation" with "fear and trembling". Dean Steenburgh
Mark Ledbetter wrote:
bradfreeman wrote:
For you have not come to a mountain that can be touched and to a blazing fire, and to darkness and gloom and whirlwind, and to the blast of a trumpet and the sound of words which sound was such that those who heard begged that no further word be spoken to them. For they could not bear the command, “If even a beast touches the mountain, it will be stoned.” And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, “I am full of fear and trembling.” Heb. 12:18-22

We have not come to a mountain of Law that leaves us "full of fear and trembling".

and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, Phil. 3:9

We have not come to a mountain of Law that find us working for our own righteousness "derived from Law". We can't build a tower to Heaven toiling and sweating to make bricks under the bondage of the Law in the mix of the red clay of flesh and the straw and stubble of our works.

We are not trying to establish our own righteousness, or save ourselves.
We are letting a different mindset govern our lives.

Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Phil 2:5-8

Let this mind be "in you".

Work "out" the idea of saving your life, your righteousness. Work "out" the leaven of pharisees (Gal 5:4-10), the idea that you can save yourself and establish your own righteousness.

Lose that life, count it all loss, rubbish...lay it down and see that life crucified with Christ. Let His perfect love "cast out all fear".

So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure. Phil. 2:12, 13

We don't work "for" our salvation.
We're working that fear and trembling mindset out. He hasn't given us the spirit of fear (2 Tim 1:7) or the spirit of bondage again to fear (Rom. 8:15).

Work "out" your doing, your work, your effort.
Let a renewed mind in - the mind of Christ, His doing, His will, His finished work and realize God "is at work in you".



once again you read a predisposed position into a passage to draw your own conclusion...thanks for reminding me why I don't read your posts.


Mark, I have a question for you:
Is there only one way to read & interpret the scriptures & if so are you sure your way is the only sincere way to read them?
Absolutely no provocation or malice in my inquiry, I'm just asking.
I like the way Brad expounds on grace & I don't like the way most pastors ignore it or avoid it like it's the untouchable subject of canon.
You even went out of your way to write a post & remind Brad as to why you don't read his posts.

So it's just a question as to what makes your style of comprehension "thee" style & what do you base your understanding of God's word on?
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9/24/16 7:26 pm


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Post Re: What this passage really means: Work out "your own salvation" with "fear and trembling". Mark Ledbetter
Dean Steenburgh wrote:
Mark Ledbetter wrote:
bradfreeman wrote:
For you have not come to a mountain that can be touched and to a blazing fire, and to darkness and gloom and whirlwind, and to the blast of a trumpet and the sound of words which sound was such that those who heard begged that no further word be spoken to them. For they could not bear the command, “If even a beast touches the mountain, it will be stoned.” And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, “I am full of fear and trembling.” Heb. 12:18-22

We have not come to a mountain of Law that leaves us "full of fear and trembling".

and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, Phil. 3:9

We have not come to a mountain of Law that find us working for our own righteousness "derived from Law". We can't build a tower to Heaven toiling and sweating to make bricks under the bondage of the Law in the mix of the red clay of flesh and the straw and stubble of our works.

We are not trying to establish our own righteousness, or save ourselves.
We are letting a different mindset govern our lives.

Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Phil 2:5-8

Let this mind be "in you".

Work "out" the idea of saving your life, your righteousness. Work "out" the leaven of pharisees (Gal 5:4-10), the idea that you can save yourself and establish your own righteousness.

Lose that life, count it all loss, rubbish...lay it down and see that life crucified with Christ. Let His perfect love "cast out all fear".

So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure. Phil. 2:12, 13

We don't work "for" our salvation.
We're working that fear and trembling mindset out. He hasn't given us the spirit of fear (2 Tim 1:7) or the spirit of bondage again to fear (Rom. 8:15).

Work "out" your doing, your work, your effort.
Let a renewed mind in - the mind of Christ, His doing, His will, His finished work and realize God "is at work in you".



once again you read a predisposed position into a passage to draw your own conclusion...thanks for reminding me why I don't read your posts.


Mark, I have a question for you:
Is there only one way to read & interpret the scriptures & if so are you sure your way is the only sincere way to read them?
Absolutely no provocation or malice in my inquiry, I'm just asking.
I like the way Brad expounds on grace & I don't like the way most pastors ignore it or avoid it like it's the untouchable subject of canon.
You even went out of your way to write a post & remind Brad as to why you don't read his posts.

So it's just a question as to what makes your style of comprehension "thee" style & what do you base your understanding of God's word on?


Perhaps there are better or worse interpretations, applications, but when you read into a passage of Scripture a meaning that isn't there, "Work "out" the idea of saving your life, your righteousness. Work "out" the leaven of pharisees (Gal 5:4-10), the idea that you can save yourself and establish your own righteousness. "

Nice pun on the expression "work out" but that isn't what is being implied by the passage. So, occasionally I read to see what has been posted and generally don't respond because of reading into a passage a particular theme that isn't there, and like almost always it is a placing the The Law in a bad light.

Brad and I don't disagree on salvation and faith, but I believe the Law, Prophets, and the Writings are all inspired by God and have merit. All I have ever asked for is a balanced presentation.

Brad is on some sort of crusade to continually bash and "works-based" position. I believe we are saved by faith and not works of righteousness, but I don't spend my efforts on continuously bashing God's Word.

Grace is indeed a legitimate position to take and expound upon.

Is my way the only sincere way to read them? No.
Does it do the Scriptures a disservice by presenting an unbalanced presentation (a question you didn't ask)? Yes.
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Post Dean Steenburgh
I'm not coming after you Mark so I wasn't trying to avoid questions regarding unbalance. It seems there are multiple ways people look at the definition or interpretation of scripture. I don't think Brad is trying to advocate a works based salvation any more than one based on faith.

Sometimes I read his posts several times to see how & where the grammar is placed to get a better understanding of his topics.
Not here to do his bidding, apologize for him or explain his actions, maybe I read him differently as well.
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9/24/16 8:27 pm


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Post Brad's Mantra Mark Ledbetter
The Law is bad, instrument of death, etc... yes the Scriptures say that

but

The Law is also good and holy and the same Scriptures say that

but you never see it posted in Brad's posts... all negative.

Then, this becomes the theme of any passage from Scripture Old for New Testament.

Brad and I don't disagree just look for balance because the way he presents the Law it is as if God made a mistake, it isn't the inspired Word of God, it has no value for Believers, etc.

This position doesn't present a balanced view of The Law.
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Post Re: Brad's Mantra Dean Steenburgh
Mark Ledbetter wrote:
The Law is bad, instrument of death, etc... yes the Scriptures say that

but

The Law is also good and holy and the same Scriptures say that

but you never see it posted in Brad's posts... all negative.

Then, this becomes the theme of any passage from Scripture Old for New Testament.

Brad and I don't disagree just look for balance because the way he presents the Law it is as if God made a mistake, it isn't the inspired Word of God, it has no value for Believers, etc.

This position doesn't present a balanced view of The Law.


I hear ya!
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9/24/16 8:52 pm


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Post Eddie Robbins
I heard a sermon by Paul Conn who said that he believed it means to complete it. Endure to the end. When you work something out, you complete it. It certainly doesn't mean that you get to call the shots. Acts-pert Poster
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9/24/16 9:21 pm


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Post Re: What this passage really means: Work out "your own salvation" with "fear and trembling". c6thplayer1
Mark Ledbetter wrote:
bradfreeman wrote:
For you have not come to a mountain that can be touched and to a blazing fire, and to darkness and gloom and whirlwind, and to the blast of a trumpet and the sound of words which sound was such that those who heard begged that no further word be spoken to them. For they could not bear the command, “If even a beast touches the mountain, it will be stoned.” And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, “I am full of fear and trembling.” Heb. 12:18-22

We have not come to a mountain of Law that leaves us "full of fear and trembling".

and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, Phil. 3:9

We have not come to a mountain of Law that find us working for our own righteousness "derived from Law". We can't build a tower to Heaven toiling and sweating to make bricks under the bondage of the Law in the mix of the red clay of flesh and the straw and stubble of our works.

We are not trying to establish our own righteousness, or save ourselves.
We are letting a different mindset govern our lives.

Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Phil 2:5-8

Let this mind be "in you".

Work "out" the idea of saving your life, your righteousness. Work "out" the leaven of pharisees (Gal 5:4-10), the idea that you can save yourself and establish your own righteousness.

Lose that life, count it all loss, rubbish...lay it down and see that life crucified with Christ. Let His perfect love "cast out all fear".

So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure. Phil. 2:12, 13

We don't work "for" our salvation.
We're working that fear and trembling mindset out. He hasn't given us the spirit of fear (2 Tim 1:7) or the spirit of bondage again to fear (Rom. 8:15).

Work "out" your doing, your work, your effort.
Let a renewed mind in - the mind of Christ, His doing, His will, His finished work and realize God "is at work in you".



once again you read a predisposed position into a passage to draw your own conclusion...thanks for reminding me why I don't read your posts.


If you dont read and comment then how can dummies like me understand what is truth and what is not?
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9/24/16 9:32 pm


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Post Re: What this passage really means: Work out "your own salvation" with "fear and trembling". Cojak
c6thplayer1 wrote:
....

If you dont read and comment then how can dummies like me understand what is truth and what is not?


I'm on your side! I have questioned a lot in my mind. I have learned a lot here from about every poster.

There have been posters here who quit or were banned that I thought had some great input, I wish they were back.

Discussion, I read it, if it is something of interest. Many times subjects are over my head, but I still many times enjoy them.

I have been working out my own salvation for many years now. I do know one thing, God is Good, and I am probably the most blessed person in the world. Embarassed
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Post Re: What this passage really means: Work out "your own salvation" with "fear and trembling". bradfreeman
Mark Ledbetter wrote:
Nice pun on the expression "work out" but that isn't what is being implied by the passage. So, occasionally I read to see what has been posted and generally don't respond because of reading into a passage a particular theme that isn't there, and like almost always it is a placing the The Law in a bad light.


Paul is talking about a mind change, a renewed mind (let this mind be in you). If you look at Paul's larger context:
    He says let this be "in you". Phil. 2:5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus,
    He says work this "out". Phil. 2:12 "...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling"
    He says God is working "in you". Phil. 2:13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

Then he details his most thorough personal process of working out, losing, considering rubbish his self-confidence, his Jewishness, his training, his zeal, his blameless law-keeping, his righteousness.

If you don't see that right here in Phil. 2 and 3 Paul is teaching about considering the righteousness and confidence derived from blameless Law-keeping as rubbish, something to be rid of as one would rid oneself of rubbish or that life to be lost as Christ told the Jews to lose their lives for His sake, then I hope someday you can.

Phil 3:3 For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh, 4 though I also might have confidence in the flesh. If anyone else thinks he may have confidence in the flesh, I more so: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; concerning the law, a Pharisee; 6 concerning zeal, persecuting the church; concerning the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

7 But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ. 8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith;

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9/25/16 4:41 am


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Post Re: Brad's Mantra bradfreeman
Mark Ledbetter wrote:
The Law is bad, instrument of death, etc... yes the Scriptures say that


Balance.


I don't preach or teach that the "the law is bad" nor do I believe the scriptures teach that. What the scriptures teach is that the Law is "holy and just and good" (Rom.7:12). Everything in the Garden was good, even the Tree that would bring death. The Law was just weak and proved useless to make anyone righteous or perfect or give life...it IS the ministry of condemnation, sin and death. Paul calls it the "ministry of condemnation", the "ministry of death" (2 Cor. 3:6-9) and "the law of sin and death" (Rom. 8:2)

Rom. 8:3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,

Heb. 7:18 For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness, 19 for the law made nothing perfect; on the other hand, there is the bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.


I also teach that the Law, when properly handled, pictures and prophesies of Christ. Because that's what Jesus said the Law did and how He came to fulfill the Law:

Luke 24:44 Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.

John 5:39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me.

Col. 2:16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

Heb. 10:1 For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect.

Heb. 10:7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—In the volume of the book it is written of Me—To do Your will, O God.’”

Quote:
but you never see it posted in Brad's posts... all negative.


Balance: Questions about yours.

Have you ever taught that the Law is the ministry of condemnation and death? 2 Cor. 3:1-18
Have you ever taught that the Law veils hearts and minds? 2 Cor. 3:14-16
Have you ever taught that "whatever the Law says it says to those who are under the Law"? Rom. 3:19
Have you ever taught that the Law is the accuser? John 5:45; Rom. 3:20
Have you ever taught that our righteousness, blessing and life having nothing to do with Law-keeping? Rom. 3:21,22; Gal. 3:1-14
Have you ever taught that the Law is weak and useless? Rom. 8:3; Heb. 7:18
Have you ever taught that the Law is not for a righteous man? 1 Tim 1:9
Have you ever taught that all who rely on the Law are under a curse? Gal 3:10
Have you ever taught that the Law is not truth? John 1:17,18; John 8:32-35
Have you ever taught that we are no longer under the tutor? Gal 3:23-25
Have you ever taught that the Law is Hagar and must be cast out? Gal 4:21-31
Have you ever taught that blameless law-keeping is rubbish? Phil. 3:6-8
Have you ever taught that the Law is all about self-confidence and self-righteousness? Phil. 3:3-9; Rom. 10:1-4
Have you ever taught that the Law is obsolete? Heb. 8:13
Have you ever taught that the Law no longer gets to call anyone unholy or unclean? Acts 10:28
Have you ever taught that we are not under the Law? Rom 6:14

Maybe, when you view the scriptures in balance, I'm not the one-sided teacher in this mix...
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