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 Hagin said it was a lack of faith to pray "If if be thy will" or "your will be done" |
Old Time Country Preacher |
He said Jesus told him all a feller has gotta do is:
ASK
BELIEVE
RECEIVE |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15564
9/20/16 2:03 pm
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Eddie Robbins |
| Jesus didn't know this when He prayed "thy will be done." Jesus also questioned the Father when He was on the cross. I guess He didn't have enough faith and was killed. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16509
9/20/16 2:24 pm
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| OTCP and Eddie... |
Aaron Scott |
I'm pretty sure that Hagin didn't forget the Jesus' prayer in the Garden. And OTCP, without any context, throws that out there because, clearly, it will run afoul of Jesus' prayer in the Garden.
I don't know, but I imagine that Hagin prefaced this with some sort of statement about how HEALING, say, is always God's will, and was not giving some unlimited statement about never praying for God's will to be done. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6032
9/20/16 3:11 pm
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| Re: OTCP and Eddie... |
Old Time Country Preacher |
| Aaron Scott wrote: | I'm pretty sure that Hagin didn't forget the Jesus' prayer in the Garden. And OTCP, without any context, throws that out there because, clearly, it will run afoul of Jesus' prayer in the Garden.
I don't know, but I imagine that Hagin prefaced this with some sort of statement about how HEALING, say, is always God's will, and was not giving some unlimited statement about never praying for God's will to be done. |
Aaron, when a feller does any type a legitimate research (I aint talkin bout no degree mill research), hey, he has to engage the primary sources. You can rest assured OTCP has done his homework on these here woffie fellers. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15564
9/20/16 4:59 pm
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| OTCP... |
Aaron Scott |
Then post your findings. Show me that Hagin said you NEVER need to pray for God's will if you are unsure of God's will, etc.
I'll be waiting. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6032
9/20/16 7:45 pm
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| Re: OTCP... |
Old Time Country Preacher |
| Aaron Scott wrote: | Then post your findings. Show me that Hagin said you NEVER need to pray for God's will if you are unsure of God's will, etc.
I'll be waiting. |
I did not say he had never dealt with God's will, I said he called it a lack of faith to pray using the addendum "if it be thy will." |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15564
9/20/16 7:57 pm
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| What is? |
renewal |
To pray for Gods will one must find out what Gods will is?
So, What is Gods will?
Do you know? |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1021
9/21/16 8:36 am
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| Re: What is? |
diakoneo |
| renewal wrote: | To pray for Gods will one must find out what Gods will is?
So, What is Gods will?
Do you know? |
The disciples prayer:
Luk 11:1 And it came to pass, that, as he was praying in a certain place, when he ceased, one of his disciples said unto him, Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples.�2� And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.
We know or discern God's will as we live for Him: Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3382
9/21/16 11:42 am
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| So, are you daring to suggest |
brotherjames |
| that God wanted His will done on earth like it is in heaven? In other words, should earth look like heaven? And if so, why isn't it? OR is it? |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 935
9/21/16 12:24 pm
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| OTCP...you need an addendum also... |
Aaron Scott |
I'm still waiting for you to demonstrate that Hagin was saying, more or less, that under no circumstances ever, should you pray "if it be Thy will."
Again, I'm pretty sure he is speaking about situations where he believes we already have God's answer on the matter (such as healing, in his view).
Own up to it. C'mon, do it! Confession is good for the soul...and slander isn't. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6032
9/21/16 12:42 pm
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| Re: So, are you daring to suggest |
diakoneo |
| brotherjames wrote: | | that God wanted His will done on earth like it is in heaven? In other words, should earth look like heaven? And if so, why isn't it? OR is it? |
Just quoting the scripture. Jesus said to pray (ask) that way. But he also said to ask, seek and knock. Some wofers believe that once you pray for something, you should not pray for it again. In other words that if you prayed for it again, you did not have enough faith.
Do you believe that way? |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3382
9/21/16 12:47 pm
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| Nope |
brotherjames |
Consider the widow and the unjust judge. However, can you see why some people might believe more than 1 prayer is lack of faith? If you believe you had faith the first time you prayed then to pray for the same thing again might be considered you must not have really had faith the first time.
But, my point in the above text you quoted - DOes God want His will to be manifested on earth like it is in Heaven. SHould earth look like heaven (no sickness, no poverty) would that be His perfect will? Eden doesn't look like earth today. I know we live in a fallen world where satan rules the lost but if you want to know the will of God - look at heaven. That being the case one could easily say God's will is healing. Sin is the reason it isn't being manifested but His will could be considered healing (in all cases). Not interested in discussing healing but just see how you can arrive at that assumption if you quote Matt. 6 as the ideal.
And if you know the will of God on a subject (none should perish for example) then why on earth would you pray "if it be your will" if you already know His will. Which is why Hagin said to pray if it be your will was a lack of faith. |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 935
9/21/16 12:54 pm
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| Re: Nope |
diakoneo |
| brotherjames wrote: | Consider the widow and the unjust judge. However, can you see why some people might believe more than 1 prayer is lack of faith? If you believe you had faith the first time you prayed then to pray for the same thing again might be considered you must not have really had faith the first time.
But, my point in the above text you quoted - DOes God want His will to be manifested on earth like it is in Heaven. SHould earth look like heaven (no sickness, no poverty) would that be His perfect will? Eden doesn't look like earth today. I know we live in a fallen world where satan rules the lost but if you want to know the will of God - look at heaven. That being the case one could easily say God's will is healing. Sin is the reason it isn't being manifested but His will could be considered healing (in all cases). Not interested in discussing healing but just see how you can arrive at that assumption if you quote Matt. 6 as the ideal.
And if you know the will of God on a subject (none should perish for example) then why on earth would you pray "if it be your will" if you already know His will. Which is why Hagin said to pray if it be your will was a lack of faith. |
God wants His will to be done on earth of course. Isn't that why Johns last word in Revelation was, "even so come Lord Jesus!" Then there will be peace and His will be done. He will be here in the flesh. The wof movement is all about "flesh"... health and wealth. When Christ rules and reigns on earth then there will be REAL health and wealth. Until that time we have some idea from time to time of what "health and wealth" is, but it is certainly not found in any continuous earthly or man-made religious system on earth. |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3382
9/21/16 1:11 pm
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| I am not a Word of Faith person |
brotherjames |
| but you and many others misrepresent what they stand for. Yes, some of the people are caught up in the prosperity message and the extremes of that message sicken me and have for 36 years. But, healing, the Gifts of the Spirit in operation, the desire for revival and the desire to be sold out ot Jesus and be led by the Spirit are laudable for any group. We tend to over generalize. OTCP thinks all WOF are heretics and loons and that just isn't so. |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 935
9/21/16 1:20 pm
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| Gods Will.. |
renewal |
If he told us to pray his will be done on earth, which he did, this must be his desire..
What is his will in heaven? We know do we not?
The problem is getting his will done on earth. We are on earth.
What takes place or does not take place in heaven needs to be here or not here.
So what is the problem?
If it was not possible for his will to be done here, then why did he tell us to pray this prayer?
The reason is clear. people do not believe it can be done here.
Think of what would happen if all the believers prayed this prayer and really believe.
When I need healing I pray this prayer and I am healed on the spot.
You may or may not believe, Up to you but I would stop wondering and trying to figure things out and just act.
I am not a WOF person, not at all. However, I am a believer and will always be.
So, just keep the pot stirred if you will. For me, I am going to believe that his will can be done on this earth.
What you believe is up to you. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1021
9/21/16 2:14 pm
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JLarry |
The Bible said; "Judas went out and hanged himself". "Go do likewise".
One can take any statement give it a different twist, and it a will have a very different meaning.
_________________
Recorded Sermons @ www.pastorwiley.com
No one who died without Christ is happy about their decision. |
Acts Mod
Posts: 3346
9/21/16 2:30 pm
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bonnie knox |
The verse doesn't say, "Thy will in heaven be done on earth."
It is wrong to assume that God has the same design for this present earth as he does for heaven. For example, there will be no persecution in heaven, but consider this passage where the Lord speaks to Ananias about Saul:
Acts 9:15-16
But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.
Basic reading comprehension lets us know that "as it is" means "in the same way."
If my will is pleased in the mountains as it is at the beach, it just means I'm doing what I want to do; it doesn't mean that I finding seashells in the mountains. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
9/21/16 2:32 pm
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sheepdogandy |
The will of God is always in our best interest.
Every time, without fail.
_________________
Charles A. Hutchins
Senior Pastor SPWC
Congregational Church of God
www.spwc.church |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 7298
9/21/16 2:34 pm
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| Again.. |
renewal |
| It is up to you... |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1021
9/21/16 3:00 pm
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| Re: Gods Will.. |
Old Time Country Preacher |
| renewal wrote: |
The reason is clear. people do not believe it can be done here.
Think of what would happen if all the believers prayed this prayer and really believe. |
OK, hypothetically I'm conductin Bro John Doe's funeral, a man of God, served the Lord for 50+ years.
"Thank you for being here today as we honor the lack of faith of this saint of God. If he had believed he would be alive today. But he didn't. Poor fellers." |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15564
9/21/16 5:28 pm
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