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Pentecostal Scholars Speak per a Closed Canon of Scripture
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Post Pentecostal Scholars Speak per a Closed Canon of Scripture Old Time Country Preacher
"There are no 'new revelations' that render us no longer dependent on the Scriptures." (Christian Doctrine: A Pentecostal Perspective, Vol 1, page 50)

"Illumination of the Spirit does no refer to some 'new revelation' or 'deep hidden meaning.' Illumination is not intended to be a shortcut to scriptural knowledge or to replace exegetical study. (An Introduction to Theology: A Classical Pentecostal Perspective, page 46)

"There is nothing more to be added; God's truth has been fully declared [in the canon of Scripture]." (Truth Aflame: A Balanced Theology for Evangelicals and Charismatics, page 52)


Last edited by Old Time Country Preacher on 9/19/16 1:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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9/19/16 11:26 am


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Post Patrick Harris
They are wrong.

Then the logical conclusion is no prophecy is of God.

God no longer speaks unless it's in his scripture.

You can't have it both ways.
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9/19/16 12:22 pm


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Jude speaks of contending of the 'faith once delivered to the saints.' Our faith has already been delivered to us. The doctrines of the faith were revealed in the first century.

But when Peter believed that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of the Living God, it was because God had revealed it to Him. No man can know the Father but the Son, and he to whom He reveals Him. The Bible uses 'reveal' to refer to the individual receiving revelation of Jesus and the Father.

The Bible says 'for the wrath of God is revealed from heaven....' and goes on to tell about the things that might be known of God being manifest in the things that are made. There is revelation in Christian.

In I Corinthians 14, Paul speaks of 'every one of you' having a psalm, doctrine, tongue, revelation, or interpretation in a church meeting. He writes of revelation coming to 'another sitting by' while the prophets are speaking.

Paul was not against the word (translated as) 'revelation.' He also prayed for a church to have the Spirit of revelation.


The Bible doesn't just use 'revelation' to refer to set body of doctrine. We aren't supposed to add new doctrines to the faith. But the Spirit can reveal a deep understanding of the doctrine that have been revealed to the apostles to the individual today. The Spirit can also reveal an individual's callling or a variety of other things.
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9/19/16 12:38 pm


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I encountered a man on a forum who posts an interesting revival blog. But he was kind of negative, too, towards a lot of people and churches. He also had some videos that contained the f-word on YouTube.

Well, he said he'd preached from the pulpit in the Filippines that it was prostitution when old white men went to the Filippines and married the young Filipina women and supported their parents. Now, I think it's pretty common for children to send regular support to parents and also for men to support their in-laws when they get older in the Filippines.

This guy said one time when he preached, an older white man married to a Filipina punched him in the face, and he hit him back and won the fight. I told him maybe he got hit because he deserved it for calling the man's wife a whore from the pulpit. It reminded me of a one of the Proverbs.

But he thought he had 'the heart of God' on the issue of young women marrying old white men over there. And at another time, he defined prophesying as having the 'heart of God'. So I might surmised he considered the doctrine he was promoting that it was prostitution for old men to marry young women to be some kind of doctrine revealed to him. I pointed out Boaz and Ruth and Isaac and Rebecca. He was trying to get the Philippines to outlaw marriages with 20 year age gaps or more through a contact in the parliament.

Anyway, his approach seems to be not Pentecostal to me. The Pentecostal movment is kind of Fundamentalist. Doctrine is supposed to be in the Bible. You can get other kinds of 'revelations' or whatever you call it. But you don't change what the Bible teaches. And this man's teaching on marriage doesn't fit with what the Bible teaches.

Of course, whether God is grieved about a lot of old white guys marrying poor young women in the Filippines, I can't say that. But I wouldn't call it prostitution if they get married. It could be that he's seen a lot of 'sexpats' who've been married half a dozen times marrying innocent 20-year-olds. He mentioned bar girls. The old sexpat marrying the bar girl may get both of them out of fornication and spreading venereal disease, so it's probably a net plus for society.

The issue of not adding new doctrines to scripture is apparently a difference between Pentecostalism and Montanism, or at least one version of it. Apparently, Montanism added some marriage doctrine. Tertullian argued for 'monogamy', meaning the idea that widows and widowers should not remarried. He considered it a revelation added on top of what was taught in the Bible. He argued that the 'husband of one wife' was originally given for bishops, but was applied to all believers. The white preacher in the Filipines ideas about marriage reminded me of this Montanist doctrine.
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9/19/16 12:47 pm


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Post Re: Pentecostal Scholars Speak per a Closed Canon of Scripture Patrick Harris
Old Time Country Preacher wrote:
"There are no 'new revelations' that render us no longer dependent on the Scriptures." (Christian Doctrine: A Pentecostal Perspective, Vol 1, page 50)

"Illumination of the Spirit does no refer to some 'new revelation' or 'deep hidden meaning.' Illumination is not intended to be a shortcut to scriptural knowledge or to replace exegetical study. (An Introduction to Theology: A Classical Pentecostal Perspective, page 46)

"There is nothing more to be added; God's truth has been fully declared [in the canon of Scripture]." (Truth Aflame: A Balanced Theology for Evangelicals and Charismatics, page 52)


Sounds like this:

"Scripture is a closed system of truth, complete, sufficient, and not to be added to (Revelation 22:18–19). It contains all the spiritual truth God intended to reveal."
John Macarthur
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9/19/16 2:08 pm


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Post sheepdogandy
The Holy Spirit and the Holy Word of God agree, every time without fail.

If it is contrary to the Word, the Holy Spirit did not speak it.
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9/19/16 2:42 pm


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Post The canon is closed by man, not God. Aaron Scott
On what grounds do we suppose that the NT writers were inspired differently from us?

Second, no one is arguing that new "revelation" ever be accepted if it is contrary to what has already been given.

There is not a single clear statement in scripture to close the canon. What? God inspires for thousands of years, from Genesis to Revelation, then, suddenly, He refuses to say more? Hogwash.

OTCP, so much of what you post is anti-Pentecostal cloaked in the guise of heartfelt concern for truth. The truth will be Pentecostal through and through.

Again, there is not the slightest reason to suppose that God has stopped giving revelation to men. Your position is just a form of cessationism that isn't quite brave enough to own that it is.
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9/19/16 2:45 pm


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Post Quiet Wyatt
If the New Testament canon, as authortative Scripture, is not closed (we all would no doubt agree the Old Testament is closed), who's to say the Roman Catholics or Joseph Smith (Mormons) aren't correct? Who's to say the gnostics weren't right? By what standard then does one determine sound doctrine?

Last edited by Quiet Wyatt on 9/19/16 4:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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9/19/16 4:29 pm


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Post QW.... Aaron Scott
Quiet Wyatt wrote:
If the New Testament canon, as authortative Scripture is not closed (we all would no doubt agree the Old Testament is closed), who's to say the Roman Catholics or Joseph Smith (Mormons) aren't correct?


Because any new revelation must be consistent with previous revelation.

Mormonism fails to remotely meet that standard because it postulates more than one God.
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Post Quiet Wyatt
A crucial distinction must always be kept in mind regarding this issue, which apparently is lost on some. That is, the Pentecostal movement has never argued that God no longer speaks since the canon of Scripture is closed, which would in fact be the cessationist view. To accuse classical Pentecostals, all of whom affirm the primacy of Scripture and that the canon is in fact closed, of being 'cessationists' is nothing more than pure nonsense. We absolutely affirm that God still speaks today, while subjecting all contemporary prophetic utterances to the objective standard of the inspired canon of authoritative Scripture. [Insert Acts Pun Here]
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Post Quiet Wyatt... Aaron Scott
Indeed, classical Pentecostals would largely agree that the canon is closed. However, when we probe this matter, we find that believing that God still gives revelation...is tantamount to the view that the canon is NOT closed.

Now, I want to be clear: I don't think we should "add" another book to the Bible. I think most of us realize that that would just be too hard for about anyone to accept, it having been closed all these centuries. But at the same time, we must acknowledge that the "closing" of the canon is a MANMADE CONSTRUCT.

Had the canon not been closed, we might have extensive writings from 2nd, 3rd, and 4th generation Christians--and even right up to today. Of course, that is not only unwieldy--since that would be larger than a library could hold, I imagine--but it also would create additional controversy--as if we don't have enough of that over the 66 books we have.

I am not arguing that we SHOULD add books. Nor am I arguing that new revelation should at all replace or exceed the previous revelation (I am ESPECIALLY not saying that!). Rather, I am simply saying the canon is not closed by God, but by man...for God is still speaking and revealing.
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9/19/16 7:47 pm


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Post Quiet Wyatt
Canon means the standard or ruler by which all things claiming divine inspiration are measured. So, if one says there is no new Scripture being inspired which we should add to our Bibles, and that if any new revelation contradicts the Bible it must be rejected, we are in fact saying the canon/measure is in fact closed, whether we like to admit it or not. [Insert Acts Pun Here]
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9/19/16 7:57 pm


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Post Re: QW.... Stay Strong
Aaron Scott wrote:

Because any new revelation must be consistent with previous revelation.


Then I wouldn't call it new revelation. Just affirmation of old revelation that is still relevant to us today.
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9/19/16 8:14 pm


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Post Re: The canon is closed by man, not God. Old Time Country Preacher
Aaron Scott wrote:
OTCP, so much of what you post is anti-Pentecostal cloaked in the guise of heartfelt concern for truth......Your position is just a form of cessationism that isn't quite brave enough to own that it is.



I have never posted a single "anti-Pentecostal" post. I have posted many posts exposing the error of WOFand extreme/aberrant charismatic theology.

If I were cessationist I would gladly own it. I am not cessationist.
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9/19/16 10:59 pm


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What would you say about the two doctrines of marriage that I mentioned.

There were 2nd and 3rd century Monanists who believed it was wrong for widows and widowers to remarry. The Bible allows it. But Montanus allegedly received a revelation that the widowed were not allowed to remarry. Should we therefore forbid widows and widowers from marrying from now on?

What about the white guy who preaches in the Philippines who thinks it is a sin if an old man marries a young woman and helps support her parents. He calls it prostitution. He said he had the 'heart of God' on the matter. Should we add a new doctrine, not taught in the Bible, to the Bible that old men can't marry young women?
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9/19/16 11:11 pm


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Post QW... Aaron Scott
Sorry, but ALL revelation, right up to Revelation, was consistent with earlier revelation. Consistent means it can be new, but it cannot contradict earlier teaching. Besides, if we went with your notion that if it's the same thing, it's not worthy of inclusion, then a large part of Jude, most of the gospels, and a large chunk of the Pauline epistles would vanish.

Yes, the canon is closed as a PRACTICAL matter--again a man made decision...not necessarily an inspired one. But inspired, revaltory words and writings continue right on, and as a SPIRITUAL matter, yes, scripture continues to be written. It may never be placed in our Bibles, but it is no less from God, and no less inspired.
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9/20/16 5:29 am


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Post Re: QW... Old Time Country Preacher
Aaron Scott wrote:
Yes, the canon is closed as a PRACTICAL matter--again a man made decision...not necessarily an inspired one. But inspired, revaltory words and writings continue right on, and as a SPIRITUAL matter, yes, scripture continues to be written. It may never be placed in our Bibles, but it is no less from God, and no less inspired.


I don't follow the logic. The canon is closed for PRACTICAL reasons; yet remains open for SPIRITUAL reasons? And scripture (inspired Word of God) continues to be written, writings that are on par with what we have in the Bible? Herein lies the foundations of a cult!
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Post Re: Pentecostal Scholars Speak per a Closed Canon of Scripture R. Keith Whitt
Old Time Country Preacher wrote:
"There are no 'new revelations' that render us no longer dependent on the Scriptures." (Christian Doctrine: A Pentecostal Perspective, Vol 1, page 50)

"Illumination of the Spirit does no refer to some 'new revelation' or 'deep hidden meaning.' Illumination is not intended to be a shortcut to scriptural knowledge or to replace exegetical study. (An Introduction to Theology: A Classical Pentecostal Perspective, page 46)

"There is nothing more to be added; God's truth has been fully declared [in the canon of Scripture]." (Truth Aflame: A Balanced Theology for Evangelicals and Charismatics, page 52)


Your selective quotations do not do justice to these authors. How about a little context to provide the correct perspective of their views regarding the Canon and the ongoing work of the Spirit?

Thanks,
Keith
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Post bonnie knox
Keith, do any of those authors believe the canon is still open? I don't think Ole Timer was addressing whether or not the Spirit is still in an ongoing work. (Sadly, he has been misrepresented as a cessationist.) [Insert Acts Pun Here]
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Post Otcp Aaron Scott
Old Time Country Preacher wrote:
Aaron Scott wrote:
Yes, the canon is closed as a PRACTICAL matter--again a man made decision...not necessarily an inspired one. But inspired, revaltory words and writings continue right on, and as a SPIRITUAL matter, yes, scripture continues to be written. It may never be placed in our Bibles, but it is no less from God, and no less inspired.


I don't follow the logic. The canon is closed for PRACTICAL reasons; yet remains open for SPIRITUAL reasons? And scripture (inspired Word of God) continues to be written, writings that are on par with what we have in the Bible? Herein lies the foundations of a cult!



All of your loaded statements cannot change the truth. Again, tell me just how the writers of scripture had some level of inspiration not available to us. And miracles, too, if you are to be believed.

Yes, some may start a cult this way. Of course, we already have all sorts of error from those who claim the canon is inerrant, so you really aren't solving any problems by closing it.

God doesn't stop inspiring because the devil might counterfeit it if twist it. The truth keeps coming, no matter if you are a lite cessationist.


Last edited by Aaron Scott on 9/20/16 10:00 am; edited 1 time in total
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