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Ethics and bribery questions

Acts-perienced Poster Posts: 11849 **9/6/16 12:11 pm**

I'm teaching courses that touch on ethics and bribery, and I've been having some questions with an attorney/preacher acquaintence of mine, who is actually a COG preacher. So I've been thinking about the question of ethics and bribery.

I have spent a big chunk of my life in a country where bribery is quite common. Police hit drivers up for bribes for running red lights. If you want government paperwork processed (get officials to do their job, or do it in a timely manner) it may be difficult to do so without a bribe.

I know a lot of Americans think in terms of 'bribery is wrong' and many American Christians will say 'bribery is sin.' I notice that a lot of Christians in an environment where bribery is common, preachers even, don't think that way. I know this from conversations I've had.

Deuteronomy 16:19 says,
"You shall not pervert justice. You shall not show partiality, and you shall not accept a bribe, for a bribe blinds the eyes of the wise and subverts the cause of the righteous."
(ESV)

Proverbs 17:23 The wicked accepts a bribe in secret to pervert the ways of justice. (ESV)

The Old Testament specifically forbids judges from accepting bribes. But what about cases where the Christian is pressured to give a bribe, where he is not doing so to pervert justice?

Let me give an example. A Christian missionary from a medical mission wants to get some vaccines into a poor country. In order to get it past customs, he has to pay a bribe. Is it unethical for him to pay the bribe?

You could argue that it is sinful for him to pay the bribe because he is participating in the sin of the one who accepts the bribe. Or you may say the one demanding the bribe is sinning and the medical missionary is doing good by bringing vaccinations to the people?

What about a situation where a policeman arrests you when you are innocent, and demands a bribe to let you go? A young African man I went to church with was set up by another African man, apparently, working with the police. He was offered chances to get out of jail and to have the trumped-up drug charges dropped if he had paid a bribe. I don't think he had it, and those of us in his church who knew him did not know he had been arrested, either. But if he could have paid and he did, would that have been a sin, since he was not guilty. He would have been bribing to pervert justice. We could say the police bore all the guilt for extortion if this was the case.

He did not pay the bribes, and he was eventually executed after planting three churches in prison.

What about this case, someone robs you or kills your family member. But the police in your country won't act on cases unless they get some 'expense' money from you. Is it wrong to pay them money to get them to do their job?

As far as the law goes, the American corrupt practices act would forbid an American citizen from bribing a foreign government official to get a deal. But it does not forbid giving small payments to process legal paperwork that the governemnt officials should be doing if the payments are legal in that country.

Proverbs
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Cojak

01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24277 **9/6/16 12:56 pm**

It boils down to needs. I know good men who consider it a 'price of doing business'. I do know two men who spent many years in Africa, one still lives there. Both told me, "If we do not 'pay the man' we may as well go home." Both men worked for years without giving in, but learned to 'accept the cost as part of the mission.'

The only time I have known it to really affect the American business was dealing with the local labor unions in NYC, a friend learned the hard way, you pay or you don't play.

Overseers and Ministers the same to expedite building permits.

You are dealing with a real mind cruncher to one who is effected, but to the unaffected it is a simple answer, "Refuse to pay!" Is is black and white? Confused

Good question. Embarassed

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c6thplayer1

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6385 **9/6/16 1:10 pm**

Guess Im a bit different to this. If their law says you cannot bring vaccines into their country then I would not do it nor would I bribe anyone to do it. Two wrongs never make a right. I would however support one of their politicians that is fighting to allow this.

Patrick Harris

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1323 **9/6/16 2:14 pm**

In Saudi Arabia during Desert Storm we had to pay a "fee", which was basically a bribe to customs, to bring supplies through certain channels for the military.
In the end, you do what you have to do.

For the example:"A Christian missionary from a medical mission wants to get some vaccines into a poor country. In order to get it past customs, he has to pay a bribe. Is it unethical for him to pay the bribe? "

I would pay it if it meant saving lives.

c6thplayer1

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6385 **9/6/16 6:04 pm**

Mark Ledbetter

If we hadn't bribed border authorities,

Golf Cart Mafia Associate Posts: 2109 **9/6/16 6:56 pm**

I might still be in Haiti.
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Acts-perienced Poster Posts: 11849 **9/6/16 10:09 pm**

Lloyd Looney

Ethical thinking

Hey, DOC Posts: 52 **9/6/16 10:20 pm**

These kinds of questions are important ones for contemporary Christians and Christian leaders to consider. Part of why they are so important is that we have to learn how to think ethically, to learn how to make ethical decisions.

Ethics is not always about convergent thinking, that there is only one right answer to critical questions. Often it is a matter of lateral thinking, realizing that there can be more than one good or right decision. We have to decide what is the best decision in a given situation. Sometimes scripture will give us clear direction about an issue and at other times we have to interpret scripture(s) to ascertain the best decision. We need to pray for discernment for these times in which we live.

I sometimes teach a course on pastoral ethics at a local college. One of the things I have learned and try and teach my students is that there are different types or ways of ethical thinking. We can use:
Teleological ethics - performing an action according to the desired end it achieves. If the end result is good then how we accomplish it may not matter as much.
Deontological ethics - an action must be performed regardless of the good (or evil) ends that it generates; there is a moral duty that is to be performed.
Utilitarianism - doing the greatest good for the greatest number of people.

There are other ways of thinking about how to make ethical decisions. These I just mentioned are a few ways. One example of reflecting on how these decisions need to be made is to take the example of Corrie Ten Boom. Her family secretly housed Jews during WWII. When the Nazis came to her house and asked "Are there any Jews in your home?" the Ten Booms could take the deontological approach and say that the Bible condemns lying, we have a moral duty as Christians to not lie, therefore we must tell the Nazis that we have Jews in our home. A moral duty must be performed regardless of the consequences. If we take the teleological approach then we would say that the end is what matters most so saving the lives of Jews and saving our own lives is important so that even others might be saved by our continued efforts, therefore we can lie and not tell the Nazis we are hiding Jews. There is a greater good to be accomplished by our not telling the truth.

There is obviously much more to be said than space will allow here but we (Christians and leaders) have to learn how to think critically and ethically if we want to make a real difference in this world and help those we lead also become better decision makers. We make ethical decisions every day we just need to know what it is that we are doing, how we are making these decisions, and why we are making them.
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Acts-perienced Poster Posts: 11849 **9/6/16 10:45 pm**

I am teaching two courses right now in which teaching ethics is a part of the course, so I think about these things as well.

I had a textbook once that taught utilitarian ethics and didn't even mentioned deontological ethics or religious approaches. Students wrong ethics papers. Some of the reasoning of ethics really bothered me.

Utilitarian ethics could be used to justify the actions of Adolph Hitler. It needs to be combined with the idea that certain acts are wrong (religious and/or deontological approaches, possible a rights-based approach) for individuals to behave in a remotely ethical manner. Utilitarian ethics makes sense for certain ethical situations.

I was more interested in a Biblical approach, which we can supplement with other ethical reasoning, I suppose, to the issue of bribery. I see some types of bribery as clearly forbidden. I was wanting for us to identify the gray areas and discuss them. Whether it is unethical to allow yourself to be extorted, and under what circumstances, is one gray area. If you are arrested for a death-penalty crime you did not commit, and pay a bribe to get out of it, that's being extorted. Is it unethical? Is it better to die?

My friend who was executed probably didn't have the money when the deal was offered, but he may have also rejected it as a matter of integrity.
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Cojak

Link and Lloyd

01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24277 **9/7/16 10:10 am**

You both bring up a lot of area in which it forces deep thought. I appreciate the comments here. There is a big dilemma here for folk in real life. Many decisions most of we here in the USA WILL NEVER FACE, it is only a mental exercise for most of us. In the average American Christian's life right and wrong can be decided fairly simply. Most of us know that LYING is WRONG and do not do it intentionally.

Dogmatic statements such as: I have seen too much suffering for those who take Chemotherapy and dialysis, I WOULD NEVER AGREE TO IT. That is usually said by someone who has not been faced with the actual decision.

There are times I am glad my journey here is shorter than it was yesterday. Life is more complicated in today's world. Many will argue with me, even my peers, but when you were raised in a simple world, it is hard to put oneself in the position of the German Soldier who was only doing as ordered, and the family of someone like Cory Ten Boom.

I thank God my decisions have mostly been SIMPLE!

More power to you men of today who must decipher the REAL COMPLICATIONS of life considered in a world theater.

God Bless you all. Cool

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Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
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