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Travis Johnson |
| bonnie knox wrote: | | Quote: | | As some people vote against a person who says offensive things and facilitate the handing of the election to a person who does offensive things out of some sense of moral purity, we will get the full weight of that bad decision. |
Can't you say what you plan to do without criticizing someone who has chosen a different path according to the dictates of his conscience? |
Fair enough. Point taken.
I have Christian friends who will vote for a completely corrupt mechanism and ideology fashioned by the Clintons. I don't understand that. But, I am not dividing fellowship over that for sure.
I just don't understand it.
As we've learned, elections do have consequences. We could have done a better job nominating candidates in both parties. We didn't. So, we have to deal with that now. Between the choices we have, it is pretty clear that there are only two options outside of non-participation or protest: Clinton and Trump. There are very clear consequences for a Clinton presidency. It's a guarantee. I can't pull the lever on that.
If it happens, we'll keep moving. The Gospel will continue to advance. But, it will be in an environment of diminished religious freedoms and freedom of speech and conscience. |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 7862
8/23/16 3:08 pm
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Cojak |
[quote="Travis Johnson"]... it is pretty clear that there are only two options outside of non-participation or protest: Clinton and Trump. There are very clear consequences for a Clinton presidency. It's a guarantee. I can't pull the lever on that.
If it happens, we'll keep moving. The Gospel will continue to advance. But, it will be in an environment of diminished religious freedoms and freedom of speech and conscience.[/quote]
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011
Posts: 24275
8/23/16 3:19 pm
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c6thplayer1 |
| Travis Johnson wrote: | | bonnie knox wrote: | | Quote: | | As some people vote against a person who says offensive things and facilitate the handing of the election to a person who does offensive things out of some sense of moral purity, we will get the full weight of that bad decision. |
Can't you say what you plan to do without criticizing someone who has chosen a different path according to the dictates of his conscience? |
But, it will be in an environment of diminished religious freedoms and freedom of speech and conscience. |
Those qualities of life will only be diminished if you allow them to be diminished. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6385
8/23/16 5:24 pm
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Travis Johnson |
| c6thplayer1 wrote: | | Travis Johnson wrote: | | bonnie knox wrote: | | Quote: | | As some people vote against a person who says offensive things and facilitate the handing of the election to a person who does offensive things out of some sense of moral purity, we will get the full weight of that bad decision. |
Can't you say what you plan to do without criticizing someone who has chosen a different path according to the dictates of his conscience? |
But, it will be in an environment of diminished religious freedoms and freedom of speech and conscience. |
Those qualities of life will only be diminished if you allow them to be diminished. |
How so? |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 7862
8/23/16 5:59 pm
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MARK317 |
| Travis Johnson wrote: | | MARK317 wrote: | For me, I find it hard to believe anyone could objectively look at Trump, and still vote for this man with any type of confidence.
Think about it. Can you really see him as your President?
I know, I know, then that leaves Hillary. I can't see her as President either.
Bottom line is, no matter who wins, we lose. |
Sometimes you get skunked. That's Hillary Clinton...a total shut out. She is a con perpetrated on America. We are completely for sale to people like George Soros, the Saudis, etc...
On top of that, her stated goals are expanded tax payer funded partial birth abortion. We will continue down the road overreaching Federal edicts. Regarding abortion, she recently stated, "Deep seated cultural codes, religious beliefs, and structural biases have to be changed."
EXPECT FURTHER EDICTS THAT FURTHER ERODE BOTH PERSONAL AND INSTITUTIONAL RELIGIOUS FREEDOM.
Did you like how Hobby Lobby and the Green family was bullied under Obamacare? I hope so. We get more of that with Hillary Clinton.
Do you like how your kids in public schools are now subject to social experimentation where male students claiming to identify as females have full access by presidential order to your daughter's locker room and bathrooms at school? More of that.
Do you like the Supreme Court Justices you've gotten under Obama? You'll get more of that under Clinton.
Buckle up.
As some people vote against a person who says offensive things and facilitate the handing of the election to a person who does offensive things out of some sense of moral purity, we will get the full weight of that bad decision.
Not me. |
You have no need to lecture me. I completely understand what is at stake.
As I have said America loses either way. |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 544
8/23/16 6:01 pm
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c6thplayer1 |
| Travis Johnson wrote: | | c6thplayer1 wrote: | | Travis Johnson wrote: | | bonnie knox wrote: | | Quote: | | As some people vote against a person who says offensive things and facilitate the handing of the election to a person who does offensive things out of some sense of moral purity, we will get the full weight of that bad decision. |
Can't you say what you plan to do without criticizing someone who has chosen a different path according to the dictates of his conscience? |
But, it will be in an environment of diminished religious freedoms and freedom of speech and conscience. |
Those qualities of life will only be diminished if you allow them to be diminished. |
How so? |
How would my religious freedoms be diminished? |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6385
8/23/16 8:43 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
| The truest words Donald Trump ever said (and perhaps the only ones), were when he said that he probably didn't deserve the evangelical vote. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12792
8/23/16 8:47 pm
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Travis Johnson |
| c6thplayer1 wrote: | | Travis Johnson wrote: | | c6thplayer1 wrote: | | Travis Johnson wrote: | | bonnie knox wrote: | | Quote: | | As some people vote against a person who says offensive things and facilitate the handing of the election to a person who does offensive things out of some sense of moral purity, we will get the full weight of that bad decision. |
Can't you say what you plan to do without criticizing someone who has chosen a different path according to the dictates of his conscience? |
But, it will be in an environment of diminished religious freedoms and freedom of speech and conscience. |
Those qualities of life will only be diminished if you allow them to be diminished. |
How so? |
How would my religious freedoms be diminished? |
We've chosen not make our church space as available to community groups as they have been previously and instructed staff not to answer questions about scheduling weddings at our church. We don't want to be shopped for a lawsuit that shows we allow some public groups to use our space but, discriminate against a same sex wedding. That's reality now.
While we still have the God-given freedom to pick and choose who uses our space, all church facilities are more exposed to discrimination lawsuits now more than ever. That's a soft tyranny and an infringed freedom.
Building and zoning codes. Want to build a church building? Let's see your bathrooms. Accessible to all genders (real and imagined)? that answer better be right your plans if you want your CO.
Better provide abortificants via health insurance for employees. Object? No problem. It's just a fine that is sizable enough that you have to choose between violating your conscience or closing your doors. That isn't future speak. That's old news.
We'll get more of that. |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 7862
8/23/16 10:42 pm
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c6thplayer1 |
| Travis Johnson wrote: | | c6thplayer1 wrote: | | Travis Johnson wrote: | | c6thplayer1 wrote: | | Travis Johnson wrote: | | bonnie knox wrote: | | Quote: | | As some people vote against a person who says offensive things and facilitate the handing of the election to a person who does offensive things out of some sense of moral purity, we will get the full weight of that bad decision. |
Can't you say what you plan to do without criticizing someone who has chosen a different path according to the dictates of his conscience? |
But, it will be in an environment of diminished religious freedoms and freedom of speech and conscience. |
Those qualities of life will only be diminished if you allow them to be diminished. |
How so? |
How would my religious freedoms be diminished? |
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| Quote: | We've chosen not make our church space as available to community groups as they have been previously and instructed staff not to answer questions about scheduling weddings at our church. We don't want to be shopped for a lawsuit that shows we allow some public groups to use our space but, discriminate against a same sex wedding. That's reality now.
While we still have the God-given freedom to pick and choose who uses our space, all church facilities are more exposed to discrimination lawsuits now more than ever. That's a soft tyranny and an infringed freedom.
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Thats the anti-discrimination law now and has been in place a long long time. I dont see any additional loss from this that the election would bring.
| Quote: | | Building and zoning codes. Want to build a church building? Let's see your bathrooms. Accessible to all genders (real and imagined)? that answer better be right your plans if you want your CO. |
Building and zoning codes are controlled locally. We need them. If this doesnt fit ones plans then there is always the rural areas where zoning doesnt exist.
How many questionable genders attend your facility? If there are more than two then just post a sign that you only accommodate two. If legal action is threatened then place a porta potty out back.
| Quote: | Better provide abortificants via health insurance for employees. Object? No problem. It's just a fine that is sizable enough that you have to choose between violating your conscience or closing your doors. That isn't future speak. That's old news.
We'll get more of that |
You have no control over what the insurance companies provide. Its kind of like buying an car. They come with a 4 , 6 and 8 cylinder engine. To my knowledge you cannot buy a personal or commercial vehicle with a jet engine.
However if you can find an insurance company that doesnt provide birth control methods then buy the plan.
If you cannot find a plan then just comply with the law. there are other laws
on the books that dont meet the need of everyone. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6385
8/24/16 9:47 am
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Patrick Harris |
| c6thplayer1 wrote: | | Travis Johnson wrote: | | c6thplayer1 wrote: | | Travis Johnson wrote: | | c6thplayer1 wrote: | | Travis Johnson wrote: | | bonnie knox wrote: | | Quote: | | As some people vote against a person who says offensive things and facilitate the handing of the election to a person who does offensive things out of some sense of moral purity, we will get the full weight of that bad decision. |
Can't you say what you plan to do without criticizing someone who has chosen a different path according to the dictates of his conscience? |
But, it will be in an environment of diminished religious freedoms and freedom of speech and conscience. |
Those qualities of life will only be diminished if you allow them to be diminished. |
How so? |
How would my religious freedoms be diminished? |
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| Quote: | We've chosen not make our church space as available to community groups as they have been previously and instructed staff not to answer questions about scheduling weddings at our church. We don't want to be shopped for a lawsuit that shows we allow some public groups to use our space but, discriminate against a same sex wedding. That's reality now.
While we still have the God-given freedom to pick and choose who uses our space, all church facilities are more exposed to discrimination lawsuits now more than ever. That's a soft tyranny and an infringed freedom.
|
Thats the anti-discrimination law now and has been in place a long long time. I dont see any additional loss from this that the election would bring.
| Quote: | | Building and zoning codes. Want to build a church building? Let's see your bathrooms. Accessible to all genders (real and imagined)? that answer better be right your plans if you want your CO. |
Building and zoning codes are controlled locally. We need them. If this doesnt fit ones plans then there is always the rural areas where zoning doesnt exist.
How many questionable genders attend your facility? If there are more than two then just post a sign that you only accommodate two. If legal action is threatened then place a porta potty out back.
| Quote: | Better provide abortificants via health insurance for employees. Object? No problem. It's just a fine that is sizable enough that you have to choose between violating your conscience or closing your doors. That isn't future speak. That's old news.
We'll get more of that |
You have no control over what the insurance companies provide. Its kind of like buying an car. They come with a 4 , 6 and 8 cylinder engine. To my knowledge you cannot buy a personal or commercial vehicle with a jet engine.
However if you can find an insurance company that doesnt provide birth control methods then buy the plan.
If you cannot find a plan then just comply with the law. there are other laws
on the books that dont meet the need of everyone. |
As an observation. These things would fall under having Religious Accommodations and not Religious Freedom. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1323
8/24/16 9:57 am
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c6thplayer1 |
| Patrick Harris wrote: | | c6thplayer1 wrote: | | Travis Johnson wrote: | | c6thplayer1 wrote: | | Travis Johnson wrote: | | c6thplayer1 wrote: | | Travis Johnson wrote: | | bonnie knox wrote: | | Quote: | | As some people vote against a person who says offensive things and facilitate the handing of the election to a person who does offensive things out of some sense of moral purity, we will get the full weight of that bad decision. |
Can't you say what you plan to do without criticizing someone who has chosen a different path according to the dictates of his conscience? |
But, it will be in an environment of diminished religious freedoms and freedom of speech and conscience. |
Those qualities of life will only be diminished if you allow them to be diminished. |
How so? |
How would my religious freedoms be diminished? |
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| Quote: | We've chosen not make our church space as available to community groups as they have been previously and instructed staff not to answer questions about scheduling weddings at our church. We don't want to be shopped for a lawsuit that shows we allow some public groups to use our space but, discriminate against a same sex wedding. That's reality now.
While we still have the God-given freedom to pick and choose who uses our space, all church facilities are more exposed to discrimination lawsuits now more than ever. That's a soft tyranny and an infringed freedom.
|
Thats the anti-discrimination law now and has been in place a long long time. I dont see any additional loss from this that the election would bring.
| Quote: | | Building and zoning codes. Want to build a church building? Let's see your bathrooms. Accessible to all genders (real and imagined)? that answer better be right your plans if you want your CO. |
Building and zoning codes are controlled locally. We need them. If this doesnt fit ones plans then there is always the rural areas where zoning doesnt exist.
How many questionable genders attend your facility? If there are more than two then just post a sign that you only accommodate two. If legal action is threatened then place a porta potty out back.
| Quote: | Better provide abortificants via health insurance for employees. Object? No problem. It's just a fine that is sizable enough that you have to choose between violating your conscience or closing your doors. That isn't future speak. That's old news.
We'll get more of that |
You have no control over what the insurance companies provide. Its kind of like buying an car. They come with a 4 , 6 and 8 cylinder engine. To my knowledge you cannot buy a personal or commercial vehicle with a jet engine.
However if you can find an insurance company that doesnt provide birth control methods then buy the plan.
If you cannot find a plan then just comply with the law. there are other laws
on the books that dont meet the need of everyone. |
As an observation. These things would fall under having Religious Accommodations and not Religious Freedom. |
Accommodations / religious Freedom who cares if the problem is solved. that is if there is a problem. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6385
8/24/16 12:07 pm
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Travis Johnson |
C6th,
Hobby Lobby is an Obamacare issue. I discussed it with Joe Garcia when he was my congressman. He's a friend. Our conversation largely centered around why Democrats make it difficult for Christians to on board with them.
Many Christians admire the desire in the Democrat party to assist the marginalized. But, asking Christians to violate conscience en route is a difficult pitch.
Anyway, not only is the Hobby Lobby issue an Obamacare initiated problem, so is Little Sisters of the Poor. Obamacare mandated that they not restrict access of the nuns to birth control and abortifacients.
Not only is it an erosion of personal freedom and religious freedom. It is an imposition directly against personal conscience.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/obamacare-vs-little-sisters-of-the-poor-1458504604
My stated concerns regarding Hillary Clinton have nothing to do with repealing already initiated actions. Rather, my concern is further erosion of freedom.
It is an observable trend in place. Based on Hillary's stated goals, it will be a continuation of that trend. |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 7862
8/24/16 1:28 pm
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c6thplayer1 |
| Travis Johnson wrote: | C6th,
Hobby Lobby is an Obamacare issue. I discussed it with Joe Garcia when he was my congressman. He's a friend. Our conversation largely centered around why Democrats make it difficult for Christians to on board with them.
Many Christians admire the desire in the Democrat party to assist the marginalized. But, asking Christians to violate conscience en route is a difficult pitch.
Anyway, not only is the Hobby Lobby issue an Obamacare initiated problem, so is Little Sisters of the Poor. Obamacare mandated that they not restrict access of the nuns to birth control and abortifacients.
Not only is it an erosion of personal freedom and religious freedom. It is an imposition directly against personal conscience.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/obamacare-vs-little-sisters-of-the-poor-1458504604
My stated concerns regarding Hillary Clinton have nothing to do with repealing already initiated actions. Rather, my concern is further erosion of freedom.
It is an observable trend in place. Based on Hillary's stated goals, it will be a continuation of that trend. |
Good post Travis. I really have no rebuttal against that because you are correct. Democrats do want more control. Republicans give lip service against it but take little to no action. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6385
8/24/16 4:45 pm
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Travis Johnson |
| c6thplayer1 wrote: |
Good post Travis. I really have no rebuttal against that because you are correct. Democrats do want more control. Republicans give lip service against it but take little to no action. |
The people that made Donald Trump possible are the people who tells us what we want to hear and, as you say, do nothing...no doubt.
Thanks for the chat...and for being gracious in the process when I may not have been so much. |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 7862
8/24/16 8:10 pm
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Cojak |
| Travis Johnson wrote: | C6th,
Hobby Lobby is an Obamacare issue. ...
It is an observable trend in place. Based on Hillary's stated goals, it will be a continuation of that trend. |
I do appreciate this entire comment, very well stated, THANKS! 
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011
Posts: 24275
8/26/16 9:57 pm
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| Re: I am voting for Donald Trump...gladly |
Methocostal |
The worst thing about Trump is he is such a loose cannon, he could start WWIII just because some President looked at him wrong. I truly worry about what he would do internationally. Not that I'm at all pleased with Hillary selling us out. I worry Trump truly could start a war for no good reason.
| georgiapath wrote: | | Travis Johnson wrote: | Donald Trump is right about unvetted immigration. It's ludicrous that we would invite the kind of nonsense Eurpoe is dealing with by accelerating this kind of immigration.
Further, a Hillary Clinton presidency is the end of a rational and Constitutional Supreme Court, period. Zero doubt about that. So, with a third party vote or a Hillary Clinton vote, get ready for more:
-IRS overreach into nonprofits
-even more permissive abortion policy, including your tax dollars funding it.
-restrictions on religious expression.
Donald Trump is crass. And, he is deeply flawed. So, we've got two candidates that are deeply flawed. That's the reality of our situation. With that said, I am voting for one of the two candidates that I think gives the best opportunity for freedom, security, and life. That's a no brainier in my mind. |
Me too. Trump's worst couldn't be nearly as bad as Hillary's best. |
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Friendly Face
Posts: 496
8/29/16 11:43 am
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Methocostal |
All that said, I will most likely hold my nose with two hands and vote for Trump with my toe  |
Friendly Face
Posts: 496
8/29/16 11:45 am
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c6thplayer1 |
| Methocostal wrote: | | All that said, I will most likely hold my nose with two hands and vote for Trump with my toe |
So Obamacare and more liberal stuff for 4 more years is worse than WWIII? |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6385
8/29/16 12:54 pm
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| Re: I am voting for Donald Trump...gladly |
Ventureforth |
| Methocostal wrote: | The worst thing about Trump is he is such a loose cannon, he could start WWIII just because some President looked at him wrong. I truly worry about what he would do internationally. Not that I'm at all pleased with Hillary selling us out. I worry Trump truly could start a war for no good reason.
| georgiapath wrote: | | Travis Johnson wrote: | Donald Trump is right about unvetted immigration. It's ludicrous that we would invite the kind of nonsense Eurpoe is dealing with by accelerating this kind of immigration.
Further, a Hillary Clinton presidency is the end of a rational and Constitutional Supreme Court, period. Zero doubt about that. So, with a third party vote or a Hillary Clinton vote, get ready for more:
-IRS overreach into nonprofits
-even more permissive abortion policy, including your tax dollars funding it.
-restrictions on religious expression.
Donald Trump is crass. And, he is deeply flawed. So, we've got two candidates that are deeply flawed. That's the reality of our situation. With that said, I am voting for one of the two candidates that I think gives the best opportunity for freedom, security, and life. That's a no brainier in my mind. |
Me too. Trump's worst couldn't be nearly as bad as Hillary's best. |
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Probably not with Russia. Trump and Putin are getting along pretty well. |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 651
8/30/16 9:36 pm
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| The hard truth is..... |
Jamie Noel |
none of us REALLY know what Trump will do. We have suspicions. We have fears. We have reservations. We also hear what he is saying.....but what is he really going to do.
As for Hillary.....we all KNOW what she will do....
_________________
Stay Positive! |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1138
9/4/16 2:23 pm
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