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 The General Assembly is a poor use of money |
aprilmay2.0 |
Let's be honest about some things regarding this assembly.
The agenda set before the general council is weak. I believe this is a direct result of the tithe of tithe cut. The year the TOT was cut it was because the agenda was finished in time for the motions from the floor to be discussed and voted on. This ended up burning the EC because the TOT reduction couldn't be buried deep enough to not be discussed. There aren't very many issues on this docket that are really life changing with the exception of women in ministry but we all sort of know where that discussion will take us- probably the same place it's taken us the last few assemblies we've discussed it. The EC is so afraid of the GC presenting motions they have reduced the number of days we can discuss stuff!! They put other stuff up to waste time!!
Keep in mind all of this is done with your tithe dollars and without a current transparent accounting of your tithe dollars. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 165
6/28/16 6:07 pm
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LonghornFan |
Wow! That is about the biggest conspiracy stretch that I have ever read on here, and that is really saying something.
You are saying that a shorter agenda means that the Executive Council is attempting to avoid motions from the motions committee. Wouldn't a short agenda actually guarantee that we will get to the motions committee? The schedule is exactly the same as the year that the tithe of tithe cut took place. Additionally, there are only 2 members of the Executive Council that were on the Council at the time of the tithe of tithe cut.
I really can't stretch my thinking to understand where you are coming up with your logic on this. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 120
6/28/16 7:42 pm
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| Im saying |
aprilmay2.0 |
There is less time for discussion because (a) there are less days to discuss, (b) there is now going to be a speaker at the beginning of the sessions doing leadership training that eats into the discussion time.
Can you in good conscience say the EC does not construct the agenda to fit their desires and concerns?
Can you in good conscience say the EC has no influence on the motions committee?
Can you in good conscience say there is not an intentional agenda set forth to keep more pressing real life issues from surfacing?
Here's some more conspiracy for you-
Its undeniable that the EC wants to keep the power in the southeast US. We ALL know this whole thing could be done via the internet but that would open things up to the whole world and our new PB would be from Indonesia. So in an effort to keep the control where the dollars are, no internet and no internationally convenient sites.
Look at where the GA is hosted. SOUTHEAST for the last several years and this year its in Nashville? The cosmopolitan international hub of Nashville? (insert sarcasm)
Why not Los Angeles or Washington DC or even Atlanta? because Nashville requires a little bit extra travel which means a little bit extra money and that puts it involvement just a little bit more out of reach.
Imagine if the GA was hosted in Manilla. Imagine Pastor so and so having to get a passport and find a hotel and navigate the traffic. He would be hopelessly lost to the point he wouldn't attend just like many internationals feel now. Not to mention the price. HQ would be inundated with calls about the cost of the GA in Manilla. And- most everyone in Manilla speaks english!! From a global perspective, with the weak european dollar, Germany or France would be cheaper than Nashville. But that can't happen. Why? because people lose jobs if this big belly, hair bun party is hosted anywhere outside the grits and sweet tea zone.
Lets be honest- this whole thing could be streamlined to be more effective, less expensive and more inclusive, but that costs people jobs.
I better quit now, i feel the old aprilmay surfacing which means i need to go pray. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 165
6/29/16 9:57 am
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| Re: Im saying |
LonghornFan |
That is certainly some interesting perspective. Let me try to respond to all of this from my perspective.
| aprilmay2.0 wrote: | | There is less time for discussion because (a) there are less days to discuss, (b) there is now going to be a speaker at the beginning of the sessions doing leadership training that eats into the discussion time. |
a. There are not less days to discuss. This is the same schedule that we have been on since 2008. There is no Tuesday evening service, so that the general council meets until late evening on Tuesday.
b. The "special orders of the day" will take up 2 hours per day. One of those hours has been added by extending the general council sessions.
| aprilmay2.0 wrote: | Can you in good conscience say the EC does not construct the agenda to fit their desires and concerns?
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Yes. The agenda is developed by 23 men with unique ministry philosophies and perspectives from the motions that are submitted to them.
| aprilmay2.0 wrote: | | Can you in good conscience say the EC has no influence on the motions committee? |
Yes. Parliamentary procedure requires that the motions from the motion's committee be presented to the general council in the order that they were received. I do not believe that the 23 men who we elect to represent us, based upon their character, wisdom, and integrity, would be deceptive in plotting such an unethical maneuver.
| aprilmay2.0 wrote: | | Can you in good conscience say there is not an intentional agenda set forth to keep more pressing real life issues from surfacing? |
Yes. I can say that in good conscience
| aprilmay2.0 wrote: | Here's some more conspiracy for you-
Its undeniable that the EC wants to keep the power in the southeast US. We ALL know this whole thing could be done via the internet but that would open things up to the whole world and our new PB would be from Indonesia. So in an effort to keep the control where the dollars are, no internet and no internationally convenient sites.
Look at where the GA is hosted. SOUTHEAST for the last several years and this year its in Nashville? The cosmopolitan international hub of Nashville? (insert sarcasm)
Why not Los Angeles or Washington DC or even Atlanta? because Nashville requires a little bit extra travel which means a little bit extra money and that puts it involvement just a little bit more out of reach.
Imagine if the GA was hosted in Manilla. Imagine Pastor so and so having to get a passport and find a hotel and navigate the traffic. He would be hopelessly lost to the point he wouldn't attend just like many internationals feel now. Not to mention the price. HQ would be inundated with calls about the cost of the GA in Manilla. And- most everyone in Manilla speaks english!! From a global perspective, with the weak european dollar, Germany or France would be cheaper than Nashville. But that can't happen. Why? because people lose jobs if this big belly, hair bun party is hosted anywhere outside the grits and sweet tea zone.
Lets be honest- this whole thing could be streamlined to be more effective, less expensive and more inclusive, but that costs people jobs.
I better quit now, i feel the old aprilmay surfacing which means i need to go pray. |
I do not like Nashville as a host town either, but I do not see it as some sort of conspiracy. You have to consider the cost of the International Offices to get all of the the logistics, employees, product, and etc. to the assembly venue. Nashville is centrally located within one days drive of 2/3 of the United States. They have an international airport that allows inexpensive flights from around the world.
When you consider those factors, I have a different perspective. I think it is completely impractical and poor stewardship to have the General Assembly outside of the southeast. I do think it would be more practical to be held in Atlanta or Orlando, because of the distance from Cleveland, the amount of hotels that drive down costs, and the easy and less expensive access for international members.
I think it would be foolish to move the General Assembly outside the United States. How would it be less expensive for someone from Central America to fly to Italy or someone from Romania to fly to Brazil? The best case scenario, in that regard, would be Atlanta or Orlando. Both are within driving distance from most of the U.S. and are international hubs for most airlines.
AprilMay, I bet you believe there is life on Mars and that Johnson had Kennedy shot too!  |
Friendly Face
Posts: 120
6/29/16 10:28 am
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JLarry |
| Quote: | Let's be honest about some things regarding this assembly.
The agenda set before the general council is weak. I believe this is a direct result of the tithe of tithe cut. The year the TOT was cut it was because the agenda was finished in time for the motions from the floor to be discussed and voted on. This ended up burning the EC because the TOT reduction couldn't be buried deep enough to not be discussed. There aren't very many issues on this docket that are really life changing with the exception of women in ministry but we all sort of know where that discussion will take us- probably the same place it's taken us the last few assemblies we've discussed it. The EC is so afraid of the GC presenting motions they have reduced the number of days we can discuss stuff!! They put other stuff up to waste time!!
Keep in mind all of this is done with your tithe dollars and without a current transparent accounting of your tithe dollars. |
No one is forced to attend the GA
_________________
Recorded Sermons @ www.pastorwiley.com
No one who died without Christ is happy about their decision. |
Acts Mod
Posts: 3346
6/29/16 10:52 am
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| JLarry |
aprilmay2.0 |
This is exactly the mentality Im addressing. Thank you.
No one is forced to, but only the rich elites can.
I understand that the majority of the pastors at GA aren't rich elites, but in a global perspective in comparison to the pastors OF THE SAME CREDENTIALED STATUS in other countries, we are all rich elites and this movement will remain controlled by and voting for those rich elites.
Which is super ironic considering the pentecostal movement began among the poor and disfranchised. We are a movement of the poor for the poor by the poor... except for 1 week every 2 years where the powers that be control the agenda and manipulate the available leadership.
Longhorn, I get the 23 men thing. Really I do, but you and i both know that when the EC or the PB walks in the room, 99% of the time the agenda they present to the 23 is the one that gets passed. Why? because the one guy who bucks the system runs the risk of not getting a state job or being blackballed and replaced by another pastor east of the Mississippi. So yes it goes through process, but the sincere scrutiny of the agenda is questionable. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 165
6/29/16 11:09 am
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Eddie Robbins |
Wait.........I am a rich elite?  |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16509
6/29/16 11:24 am
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JLarry |
Eddie now stop and give God the Praise for what He has made you.
_________________
Recorded Sermons @ www.pastorwiley.com
No one who died without Christ is happy about their decision.
Last edited by JLarry on 6/29/16 2:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
Acts Mod
Posts: 3346
6/29/16 11:32 am
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| Re: The General Assembly is a poor use of money |
Old Time Country Preacher |
| aprilmay2.0 wrote: | Let's be honest about some things regarding this assembly.
The agenda set before the general council is weak. I believe this is a direct result of the tithe of tithe cut. The year the TOT was cut it was because the agenda was finished in time for the motions from the floor to be discussed and voted on. This ended up burning the EC because the TOT reduction couldn't be buried deep enough to not be discussed. There aren't very many issues on this docket that are really life changing with the exception of women in ministry but we all sort of know where that discussion will take us- probably the same place it's taken us the last few assemblies we've discussed it. The EC is so afraid of the GC presenting motions they have reduced the number of days we can discuss stuff!! They put other stuff up to waste time!!
Keep in mind all of this is done with your tithe dollars and without a current transparent accounting of your tithe dollars. |
Son, somebody is watchin way too much science fiction.
Hey, if all the conspiracy theory is true, I bet the electronic hand held voting devices is rigged, pre-set, to change all numbers already determined by the EC.
An I betcha $5 that Tammy Wynette an George Jones will open the GA with a good ole gospel hymn. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15564
6/29/16 11:34 am
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| keep making fun |
aprilmay2.0 |
just keep being naive and making light of this stuff and before you know it the COG ministers will get so relaxed that nobody is paying attention and a million dollars will walk out the door and...wait a minute
or the EC will soon seize control of the mission dept money...wait minute
or we'll get a plan to sell all properties and consolidate offices to HQ...wait a minute
or nobody will get updated financials...wait a minute
or GA cost will still be an unknown... wait a minute
should I continue? |
Friendly Face
Posts: 165
6/29/16 12:57 pm
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sheepdogandy |
Centralized government, you gotta love it,
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Charles A. Hutchins
Senior Pastor SPWC
Congregational Church of God
www.spwc.church |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 7298
6/29/16 3:16 pm
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Judah4Him |
| sheepdogandy wrote: | | Centralized government, you gotta love it, |
we knew this was coming.
Yep. I do love it.
And I'd rather be at this General Assembly than be at an independent campmeeting listening to clothesline preaching any day of the week. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 468
6/29/16 3:25 pm
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wayne |
| Eddie Robbins wrote: | | Wait.........I am a rich elite? |
I guess I am too. Wow!!! Wait..... why am I still working a full-time secular job if I am part of the rich elite?  |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1274
6/29/16 3:27 pm
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Eddie Robbins |
| My Daddy always went but he worked a full time job as well as being a full time pastor. I guess, he was the rich elite too. I do have 3 closings next month, praise the Lord!! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16509
6/29/16 3:37 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| sheepdogandy wrote: | | Centralized government, you gotta love it, |
Andy, your local church is governed via centralized guvment. Its governed just like the COG denomination, only a smaller version of it. So, hey, you must love it. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15564
6/29/16 3:59 pm
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| Eddie, wayne, and OTCP |
aprilmay2.0 |
Eddie and wayne, you aren't the rich elites Im talking about because nobody is voting you in COG offices. The elites I'm referring to are the ones who campaign around competing to get votes. And everyone knows the old saying "if you get voted in to cleveland and you don't leave a millionaire, you did something wrong" Thats because we pay these guys salary, and benefits etc and then they use our TOT to travel to camp meetings where they soft campaign and then take their honorarium and go back to cleveland.
OTCP- I know there are a lot of different churches out there but if a local church operates with the same lack of transparency that our HQ operates with, it wouldn't be long before the doors of that church get closed. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 165
6/29/16 6:30 pm
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sheepdogandy |
Let's see.
I had rather attend the General Assembly of the Church of God than attend an independent camp meeting listening to clothesline preaching.
Our church is congregationally governed, no "one man rule" here.
We are very happy.
_________________
Charles A. Hutchins
Senior Pastor SPWC
Congregational Church of God
www.spwc.church |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 7298
6/30/16 8:06 am
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| this isn't about campmeeting |
aprilmay2.0 |
and it isn't about preaching. Although making it about preaching is part of what got us in this mess.
This has nothing to do with anointing, or calling or pulpit ability. This has everything to do with allowing people who are gifted and trained in one area to attempt to operate in another area.
Why don't we hire some guys with MBA's and some CPA's to handle the money stuff and let the preachers preach? Think about how effective the PB could be at casting vision and pastoring the pastors if he didn't have the burden of money management on him?
In my mind, whoever sits in Wallace Sibley's seat should have an MBA or a degree in finance or 20 plus years of training in financial matters (sorry Marty Baker I know that excludes a lot of young guys but..) so they can provide oversight and management. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 165
6/30/16 8:48 am
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caveator |
| sheepdogandy wrote: | Let's see.
I had rather attend the General Assembly of the Church of God than attend an independent camp meeting listening to clothesline preaching.
Our church is congregationally governed, no "one man rule" here.
We are very happy.
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"One Man Rule?"
The Church of God accountability structure consist of a 5 man Executive Committee, a Council of Eighteen, Regional and State Bishops, District Overseer, State Council, Pastor, and Church Council. Our doctrine and polity are determined by the General Assembly, which is composed from 7 million members from almost 200 countries. What is this "one man rule" that you speak of? What you describe sounds more like the pastor of an independent church to me. |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 586
6/30/16 8:52 am
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Nature Boy Florida |
| Eddie Robbins wrote: | | I do have 3 closings next month, |
Way to go Eddie.
It takes a little while to get rolling, but that is a pretty good month.
_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16619
6/30/16 10:06 am
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