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Lee Theology Department Statement on...
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Post Re: Andrew Eddie Robbins
Old Time Country Preacher wrote:
JimmieDavis wrote:
Your assertion is delusional. Not everyone in the religion department goes to cog. And there most certainly are liberal theologians at Lee. It is a well documented fact.


Jimmie, could you please provide some of this "well documented fact?"

Names?
Sources?


What is the definition of "liberal" in COG theology?
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4/6/16 3:25 pm


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Post Re: Andrew Eddie Robbins
JimmieDavis wrote:
You are a nice guy. Your assertion is delusional. Not everyone in the religion department goes to cog. And there most certainly are liberal theologians at Lee. It is a well documented fact.


Since is it is "well documented," it is OK to name names.
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4/6/16 3:27 pm


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Post Re: Andrew Old Time Country Preacher
Eddie Robbins wrote:

What is the definition of "liberal" in COG theology?



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4/6/16 4:20 pm


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Post Re: Well, Sheik Old Time Country Preacher
brotherjames wrote:
THere is a woman named Dr. (earned from AG seminary OTCP) Maria Kahleel in Pembrook Fl who is one of the most dynamic, powerful preachers of the Full GO\ospel I have ever heard.


Yes sir ree bobby, Dr. Kahleel's doctor of ministry degree is the real thing. She is to be commended, when we gonna have some fellers walkin round at the GA in Nashville with Mill Stones (degree mill docterates) hangin round their necks.
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4/6/16 4:25 pm


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Post I am troubled by the timing... Andy Stevens
...of this statement. The language of this statement would be proper AFTER a General Assembly in which we decide to revise our minutes to reflect this revision in church polity. To make this statement before revisions in bylaws, minutes, etc seems like it is out of order; not far from propaganda or as a lobbyist group paid for by COG HQ indirectly. Kinda seems like the tail is wagging the dog. Hey, DOC
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4/6/16 9:04 pm


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Post Andy Change Agent
With pen names the whole EC could be lobbying here on Acts. However most are going to believe what they want to believe. Doesn't matter. Acts Enthusiast
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4/6/16 9:19 pm


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Post Quiet Wyatt
By far, most CoG churches in the USA are small (and are probably consequently struggling), and the overwhelming majority of CoG pastors are in fact men. Not sure how the fact that a woman may be pastoring a small struggling CoG would really mean anything either way with regard to level of credential. Acts-perienced Poster
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4/6/16 9:35 pm


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Post Re: Andy Old Time Country Preacher
Change Agent wrote:
With pen names the whole EC could be lobbying here on Acts.


CA, you told me that you would not post on Actscelerate that the ole timer was a member of the EC. You told me this was confidential, just tween you an me. I ain't never gonna trust ya agin son.
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4/6/16 10:38 pm


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Post Re: I am troubled by the timing... diakoneo
Andy Stevens wrote:
...of this statement. The language of this statement would be proper AFTER a General Assembly in which we decide to revise our minutes to reflect this revision in church polity. To make this statement before revisions in bylaws, minutes, etc seems like it is out of order; not far from propaganda or as a lobbyist group paid for by COG HQ indirectly. Kinda seems like the tail is wagging the dog.


Yes, I had the same feeling about this.

Just don't know if the statement made is going to have pull much influence with many of the men who will be voting.
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4/7/16 7:49 am


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Post Re: Andrew skinnybishop
Eddie Robbins wrote:
Old Time Country Preacher wrote:
JimmieDavis wrote:
Your assertion is delusional. Not everyone in the religion department goes to cog. And there most certainly are liberal theologians at Lee. It is a well documented fact.


Jimmie, could you please provide some of this "well documented fact?"

Names?
Sources?


What is the definition of "liberal" in COG theology?



I have been taking advantage of Lee's Internet Degree Program for the past 5 years. Thankfully, I completed my undergraduate work in 2014 and will receive a Master's Degree as soon as I complete ONE MORE CHAPTER of my project. Briefly...over the past few years, I have not seen the supposed "liberal theology" that some accuse Lee of teaching.

The majority of my professors have been GREAT.
I've had some challenges with a few.
I have had serious disagreements with one or two.
I had a heated conversation with one. (We eventually reconciled as brothers)

None of my disagreements were based on theology or denominational polity. As a general rule, issues with Lee professors were about the mechanics of the class. Grading policies, expectations, deadlines, etc.

My greatest challenges with Lee professors were:
1. A failure to send timely feedback on assignments (it would take weeks)
2. Giving a grading rubric...not with the assignment....but with the feedback, after the assignment was returned.

I had trouble convincing this professor that it was unfair to reveal the standard she was grading by.....AFTER the grade is assigned.

But I digress.....The bottom line....Sure I've had a few issues at Lee.......but in 5 years liberal theology has not been one of them.
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4/7/16 8:04 am


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Post Brandon Bowers
Today I learned that God hates people with vaginas... And vaginas disqualify one from pastoral leadership..

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4/7/16 11:28 am


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Post Cojak
Brandon Bowers wrote:
Today I learned that God hates people with vaginas... And vaginas disqualify one from pastoral leadership..

Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes


You learned wrong, BB were't no 'Hating' from God mentioned! Shocked Wink Smile
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4/7/16 3:22 pm


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Post Another thought... Andy Stevens
At times we (leaders at highest levels in COG) wonder why we do not retain our best and brightest ministers. Could it be because we teach them to renounce our movement if the movement doesn't think in alignment with our enlightened educators? Just a thought... Hey, DOC
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4/7/16 3:51 pm


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Post Now That I've Thought About This mytwocents
I think that I over reacted to this issue from Lee Theology Dept.
Understand - I do have a deep concern about our education facilities leading the denomination away from historical mainstream convictions. That is the history of theology in America. Most of the Ivy League schools began as theological institutions, but look at them now.

I am concerned about PTS. I sat near PTS profs at an assembly and heard personally the remarks of condescension made as fellow ministers spoke in opposition to their opinions.

That being said, here is what I have prayerfully come to realize:
The statement from the Dept of Theology comes AFTER the notice of by-law modification. Essentially the Executive Committee and Council of 18 opened the door for this discussion with said notice, and the Dept. of Theology simply announced where they stood.

Therefore, I apologize for my reaction, ask forgiveness from anyone offended, and hope this clarifies my misunderstanding.
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4/8/16 8:54 am


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Post mytwocents... Christopher Stephenson
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4/8/16 11:42 am


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Post Tom Sterbens: thank you Andy Stevens
You spoke to my concern, specifically timing and especially your statement of "a preferred outcome rather than mandate a superior position."

As I stated originally this would be a fine statement post GA with bylaw, minutes, etc revisions passed. However we are not there yet, therefore a statement and scholarly papers from our finest theologians and scholars would have been better received as opposed to the "renouncing" language as presented. I think it would be nice to gather information from the finest theologians and scholars (including pastors in the field) to produce and combined work that would show the scriptural backing from both points of view. I am open to discussion and learning as are many...

One person said that the job of college is to stimulate critical thinking...therefore being able to review thorough thoughts from both points of view might actually do more to bring us together. Coming together after much study, thought, discussion and prayer should be the goal.

As far as Lee I think it is a great school. This statement and it's timing does concern me.



Tom Sterbens wrote:
I like the substance of the published statement - but then, that is not news for those of you who have hung out on this forum for awhile. Smile

I do think the timing and method of the published statement could have been more well thought out. I think it will cause, (#1) a response of undue backlash to Lee University (of which I am an undying fan), and (#2) it will fuel the fires of resistance to the related agenda item for the COG General Assembly.

I "DO" think we need to hear from our finest theologians and scholars - period.
I wish they would have offered a statement of followed by a white paper dealing briefly with the 4 or 5 critical passages of scripture typically raised in objection to such things and why they came to their conclusion.

As educators, I wish they would have attempted to educate to a preferred outcome rather than mandate a superior position.

But that's me.
Hey, DOC
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4/8/16 6:34 pm


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Post Well, I am appalled! Mark Ledbetter
What a sexist position this group has taken.

Shouldn't they have used the word "gender" instead of "sex"

Definitely not politically correct and out of step with new cultural norms.

Therefore the whole statement is irrelevant if not invalid.
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4/8/16 7:33 pm


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Post Carolyn Smith
Da Sheik wrote:
I'm just curious. How many female pastors have a history of effective ministry? I mean no disrespect to females whatsoever. I believe they are equal to men. God even showed us we need each other because the only way a man can come into the world is through a female's womb. We need each other. This has nothing to do with women being inferior or men lording over women.

Most of the churches (that I personally know of ) who are led by women pastors are really small and tend to struggle immensely. I guess I just wonder why there is the incessant agenda of making women "bishops ". I will however concede that it is ludicrous for us (the COG) to ordain women to pastor churches but deny them other privileges. The inconsistency is absurd.


The only female pastor that comes to mind is Janice Claypoole in KY. She has had a successful (COG) ministry there for many years. http://www.arkofmercy.net/ARK/Home.html

Diane Collins was one of the best evangelists I've ever heard, bar none. I think she pastored for a time, but I'm not sure. We lost a treasure when she went to heaven.

I agree with your statement about licensing women and allowing them to pastor but denying them other privileges. I have come to believe since my time on ACTS that the crux of the matter is that some bishops do not want to give women voting power because then they could (theoretically) serve on the EC. If women can pastor and and be licensed, it seems to me the biblical argument (husband of one wife) made is already hypocritical. Why allow them to pastor at all? It has been said on here that in a foreign country, a woman was temporarily appointed as an overseer for that area until a man could be found to take the position. As DaSheik said, it is very inconsistent.

Something else that is interesting to me is that many women ministers do not really seem to care about if it's passed or not. They are going to preach and minister, regardless. It really makes you wonder what is driving the whole issue.
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4/8/16 9:21 pm


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Post Cojak
Carolyn Smith wrote:
Da Sheik wrote:
I'm just curious. How many female pastors have a history of effective ministry? I mean no disrespect to females whatsoever. I believe they are equal to men. God even showed us we need each other because the only way a man can come into the world is through a female's womb. We need each other. This has nothing to do with women being inferior or men lording over women.

Most of the churches (that I personally know of ) who are led by women pastors are really small and tend to struggle immensely. I guess I just wonder why there is the incessant agenda of making women "bishops ". I will however concede that it is ludicrous for us (the COG) to ordain women to pastor churches but deny them other privileges. The inconsistency is absurd.


The only female pastor that comes to mind is Janice Claypoole in KY. She has had a successful (COG) ministry there for many years. http://www.arkofmercy.net/ARK/Home.html

Diane Collins was one of the best evangelists I've ever heard, bar none. I think she pastored for a time, but I'm not sure. We lost a treasure when she went to heaven.

I agree with your statement about licensing women and allowing them to pastor but denying them other privileges. I have come to believe since my time on ACTS that the crux of the matter is that some bishops do not want to give women voting power because then they could (theoretically) serve on the EC. If women can pastor and and be licensed, it seems to me the biblical argument (husband of one wife) made is already hypocritical. Why allow them to pastor at all? It has been said on here that in a foreign country, a woman was temporarily appointed as an overseer for that area until a man could be found to take the position. As DaSheik said, it is very inconsistent.

Something else that is interesting to me is that many women ministers do not really seem to care about if it's passed or not. They are going to preach and minister, regardless. It really makes you wonder what is driving the whole issue.


Good points Carolyn. It is funny (not haha) that most members of the COG have no idea that the women ministers they know, are limited in their ministry.
BTW, I never knew Diane personally, but I have NEVER heard anything but good about her. I knew her husband and family all my life, all good folk AND Dianne seemed to be one of the best, from testimonies I have heard. Cool
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4/8/16 11:16 pm


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Post Eddie Robbins
How can the COG allow women to even speak in a church when the Word is clear...let the women remain silent! My point is, it gets laughed off as some sort of culture thing. Yet, whatever verse they want to use, is not. It's pick and choose whatever suits your fancy.

Last edited by Eddie Robbins on 4/9/16 1:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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