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Former Member Watches Carpenters Home Church Being Demolished - V
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Post Roots.. renewal
The pastor of that church told me one day...We did a funeral together, that it began when a group of people split the church went a short distance away and began another church.

Life long friendships were destroyed, pain was everywhere and the root of problems started...

He of course left and the downhill spin began..

It is always that way..Some people rise up and destroy, go on their way start something else and leave untouched, while brokenness remains..

They say God told them to do what they did and he was the one that tore the church to destruction...

We see it all the time and in my view it stinks....
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3/28/16 2:20 pm


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Post Resident Skeptic
Old Time Country Preacher wrote:
Resident Skeptic wrote:
I'd rather see the building demolished than see it continue to be a hive for WoFies.


RS, son, I must agree with ya here.


I always worried that the building would wind up becoming a mosque.
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3/29/16 9:57 am


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Post Renewal is absolutely correct brotherjames
a former assoc. pastor split with Carl over some personal things and went down the street and started a new church and took nearly 2000 people with him. As a result, the church suffered in so many ways as former friends became enemies, gossip overtook reason and people went other directions rather than be involved in the mess. This was the beginning of the end. This is the story of far too much of Jesus' church. Friendships deteriorate and egos and pride get in the way of true Christian relationships and people model fleshly passion rather than Christian Grace and tolerance. In addition, instead of leaving a church quietly and going someplace else farther away the leader who feels hurt tries to split the church where he was once a trusted partner. It has been happening for a long time (the Absalom Spirit is a real thing) and it is sad.

And rather than mocking the destruction of a once great church and ministry we should be praying for all the souls that were hurt as a result of men's pride and lack of true Godly character. We also should praise God that many were saved, healed, baptized in the Spirit and generally discipled by some truly anointed servants of God. And as a warning for all of us, it is always dangerous to build a ministry on the backs of charismatic (I don't mean Spirit-filled) individuals rather than on God's Word and Presence.
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3/30/16 2:58 pm


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Post Re: Renewal is absolutely correct Old Time Country Preacher
brotherjames wrote:
a former assoc. pastor split with Carl over some personal things and went down the street and started a new church and took nearly 2000 people with him. As a result, the church suffered in so many ways.


This is a cryin shame, but it happens far too often. God "calls" a feller to leave and take folk with him an a church is split. Somebody is gonna give account.
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3/30/16 3:30 pm


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Post Nature Boy Florida
Question - when a guy opens another church across town - is it of God?

If the new church fails - is it of God?

If his new church grows and the other one goes out of business - is it of God?
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3/30/16 3:35 pm


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Post Old Time Country Preacher
Nature Boy Florida wrote:
Question - when a guy opens another church across town - is it of God?

If the new church fails - is it of God?

If his new church grows and the other one goes out of business - is it of God?



Ever single case is different an must be discerned on its own merit.
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3/30/16 4:45 pm


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Post Of God? renewal
You can do things the correct way and you can do them the incorrect way..

Starting a church across town is fine nothing wrong with that action..

What is wrong is leaving behind a broken church...

If, God is leading a person to start another church, then they should go start it..

But leave the church that you just left alone. Go dig it out ,find some unchurched people and build it on those type of folks..

What has always amazed me is this person who loved the people he was leading then he destroys them. All the time telling God has told him to do it..

Ask them to show you in the word where what they are doing is correct...

that God destroys one church to build another..

We will wait for the passage..It will never come..
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3/30/16 4:51 pm


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Post Quiet Wyatt
Kind of like Paul said in Phillippians about the gospel ministry, "For they all seek their own interests, not those of Jesus Christ."

Tragic and totally unnecessary, but all too often true.
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3/30/16 5:01 pm


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Post Re: Of God? Nature Boy Florida
renewal wrote:
What has always amazed me is this person who loved the people he was leading then he destroys them. All the time telling God has told him to do it..


He doesn't destroy them.
He takes the one he loves with him.
He also takes the ones with the most money with him.
Often - they are the same.
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3/30/16 5:15 pm


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Post Carolyn Smith
Old Time Country Preacher wrote:
Is this the church that Randy/Paula White has as Without Walls International Church?


Actually, this church was a satellite church of Randy & Paula White's church, Without Walls International. Randy & Paula's church was in Tampa, and this church (Carpenter's Home Church, later Without Wall Central Church) was in Lakeland, FL. This church's destruction didn't really have anything to do with Paula & Randy's scandal. They had one all their own.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randy_White_%28pastor%29

This is a very sad video...as it is of any church that was once vital and thriving that has died. It's also sad that Randy White grew up in a COG parsonage, attended Lee University, was mentored by TL Lowery and once had one of the largest churches in the US...and later divorced Paula and walked away from it all. He has since returned to Without Walls as senior pastor but...wow, what a mess. It's easy to point fingers at other people, but as brotherjames said, there's a lesson in there for us, too.
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3/31/16 12:12 am


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Post I think they were making it... Aaron Scott
They might not have had the church full, but I never detected financial issues prior to "the junk." They had a vision, just as a church that runs 100 might build for 300 without undo financial strain. Wealthy people supported the place, and their influence as a church was incredible.

The split, which I never heard referred to as a split during the moment, weakened CHC tremendously. Strader seemed to try to stay above it all. His son's imprisonment for supposed fraud seemed way, way overdone, but it had to deeply hurt Strader.

Rodney Howard Browne then built a church not too awful far away after the infamous revival at CHC. I have wondered if Strader was such a threat to the devil that the devil went to all this trouble to break him? At the same time, I'm afraid that some things were too easily embraced, and should have been held at arms distance.

It appears that NBF and I see this very similarly...as a spiritual tragedy
of enormous proportions. Not a chance to castigate large churches, WOFFIES, or Paula White...but a tragedy.


Last edited by Aaron Scott on 4/3/16 6:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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3/31/16 6:05 am


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Post Re: I think they were making it... Old Time Country Preacher
Aaron Scott wrote:
They might not have had the church full, but I never detected financial issues prior to "the junk." They had a vision, just as a church that runs 100 might build for 300 without undo financial strain. Wealthy people supported the place, and their influence as a church was incredible.

The split, which I never heard referred to as a split during the moment, weakened CHC tremendously. Strader seemed to try to stay above it all. His son's imprisonment for supposed fraud seemed way, way overdone, but it had to deeply hurt Strader.

Rodney Howard Browne then built a church not too awful far away after the infamous revival at CHC. I have wondered if Strader was such a threat to the devil that the devil went to all this trouble to break him? At the same time, I'm afraid that some things were too easily embraced, and should have been held at arms distance.

It appears that NBF and I see this very similarly...as a spiritual strategy of enormous proportions. Not a chance to castigate large churches, WOFFIES, or Paula White...but a tragedy.


It is indeed a tragedy, Aaron, a sad terrible tragedy. The tragedy was caused by stuff that shoulda never been. No one is castigatin anyone, but they is reasons this stuff happened. To highlight those reasons is a warnin to us all.
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3/31/16 6:52 am


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Post Carpenters Home BishopsWife
There were many issues causing the Carpenters Home split and those in ministry had valid reasons for leaving and starting another church. The deterioration of the church began when Karl Strader's sons began to take over the ministry, not with Karl Strader himself. One of which the Straders stood by their son who was convicted and sentenced to forty-five years for the crimes he committed mostly against the defenseless elderly in his community of Lakeland, most of who were members at Carpenters Home. Senior citizens lost their life savings. It was horrific. They sold to Without Walls, and pastor Scott Thomas pastored for a short time and he left and started his own church downtown. Then pastor Randy Coggins was at Without Walls Lakeland for a short time when they felt they could no longer minister under Paula White and her financial improprieties. The Lakeland Without Walls split again and 90% of the congregation went with Randy Coggins. Paula White sued Pastor Coggins for stealing members for his new ministry, for using church property for his personal use, and for bad-mouthing WWIC. It goes on and on .. the property went into foreclosure and sold .. Acts Enthusiast
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4/3/16 2:09 pm


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Post Re: Carpenters Home Old Time Country Preacher
BishopsWife wrote:
Paula White sued Pastor Coggins for stealing members for his new ministry, for using church property for his personal use, and for bad-mouthing WWIC.



Its all part a the soap opera, As the Woffie Church Turns.
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4/3/16 4:23 pm


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Post Re: I think they were making it... Cojak
Aaron Scott wrote:
They might not have had the church full, but I never detected financial issues prior to "the junk." They had a vision, just as a church that runs 100 might build for 300 without undo financial strain. Wealthy people supported the place, and their influence as a church was incredible.

The split, which I never heard referred to as a split during the moment, weakened CHC tremendously. Strader seemed to try to stay above it all. His son's imprisonment for supposed fraud seemed way, way overdone, but it had to deeply hurt Strader.

Rodney Howard Browne then built a church not too awful far away after the infamous revival at CHC. I have wondered if Strader was such a threat to the devil that the devil went to all this trouble to break him? At the same time, I'm afraid that some things were too easily embraced, and should have been held at arms distance.

It appears that NBF and I see this very similarly...as a spiritual tragedy
of enormous proportions. Not a chance to castigate large churches, WOFFIES, or Paula White...but a tragedy.


Sad, my dad always said any split could be settled, problem solved with some prayer and fasting while smothering egos. He lived by those words and his single advice to me was: If you do not care who gets the credit, every church can grow! (His churches always did) Cool
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4/3/16 9:58 pm


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Post Truman Here M Truman Smith
I have come to the conclusion that when a Pastor leaves a Church that he has pastored in a Domination and leaves to start another one and it is just a few miles away it is for a personal reason . After all is said and done it is for MONEY and many times it is because the pastor has a lover in mind . It rarely is for a God Called reason . Just my opinion , God Bless . T PS , now there has been some SO that have been almost impossible to work with . Now under those conditions I don't fault a minister from leaving and starting an Independent church . But before one does that he should know that he can pastor for a long time . God Bless . T Hey, DOC
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4/4/16 2:45 pm


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Post Re: Truman Here Old Time Country Preacher
M Truman Smith wrote:
I have come to the conclusion that when a Pastor leaves a Church that he has pastored in a Domination and leaves to start another one and it is just a few miles away it is for a personal reason . After all is said and done it is for MONEY and many times it is because the pastor has a lover in mind . It rarely is for a God Called reason . Just my opinion , God Bless . T PS , now there has been some SO that have been almost impossible to work with . Now under those conditions I don't fault a minister from leaving and starting an Independent church . But before one does that he should know that he can pastor for a long time . God Bless . T



Truman, can ya help the ole timer out here? What is a Domination? I aint never seen a feller pastor in a Domination? I've seen a heap a Dominatin pastors though.
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4/4/16 5:51 pm


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Post Re: Truman Here M Truman Smith
Old Time Country Preacher wrote:
M Truman Smith wrote:
I have come to the conclusion that when a Pastor leaves a Church that he has pastored in a Domination and leaves to start another one and it is just a few miles away it is for a personal reason . After all is said and done it is for MONEY and many times it is because the pastor has a lover in mind . It rarely is for a God Called reason . Just my opinion , God Bless . T PS , now there has been some SO that have been almost impossible to work with . Now under those conditions I don't fault a minister from leaving and starting an Independent church . But before one does that he should know that he can pastor for a long time . God Bless . T



Truman, can ya help the ole timer out here? What is a Domination? I aint never seen a feller pastor in a Domination? I've seen a heap a Dominatin pastors though.



Old timer I am just a stumbling OLD MAN who Has a senior moment many times . I just will leave it as it so the fellows and Ladies can have a laugh from this old man , After all I probably am the senior of Acts . God Bless T .





OBTW In all seriousness The Smith household is going through and dealing with situations that we NEVER THOUGHT we would have to deal with .so PLEASE KEEP US IN YOUR PRAYERS . Thanks much my friends , God Bless . T
Hey, DOC
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4/4/16 7:03 pm


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Post Re: Truman Here Old Time Country Preacher
M Truman Smith wrote:
Old timer I am just a stumbling OLD MAN who Has a senior moment many times . I just will leave it as it so the fellows and Ladies can have a laugh from this old man , After all I probably am the senior of Acts . God Bless T .

OBTW In all seriousness The Smith household is going through and dealing with situations that we NEVER THOUGHT we would have to deal with .so PLEASE KEEP US IN YOUR PRAYERS . Thanks much my friends , God Bless . T


The ole timer is just joshin with ya, Truman. I knowed what ya meant. I pray the Smith household is blessed abundantly by the good Lord.
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4/4/16 7:37 pm


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Post Truman Here M Truman Smith
Ole Timer I have posted some marvelous posts and with Brilliance and no one ,not even you has even commented on my beautiful and comprehensive posts and I misspell one word and get corrected ,(SMILE ) Do you think if I would do that more often that I would get folk to comment on my few but great posts ?? God Bless . T





Have a great day my friend
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4/5/16 7:21 am


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